Month 35 Expenses of Cruising and Living on the Boat

[Mike OReilly]

Given the turn of this discussion I’m curious to know what some of you think First World means? What countries are 1st world? What are 2nd world (whatever that actually means). And what are 3rd? Ken’s list certainly fits into the any 1st world category I know of.

And I’m always amused to hear people claim they are debt free, except for a mortgage. That’s usually the largest debt most people carry. I am debt free, for real. I don’t have to drive to work b/c I don’t have to work — for pay that is. That’s what freedom means to me.

The picture I posted earlier is where I am right now. Not another soul to be seen. No other boats, no roads. Wilderness. It’s glorious.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Given the turn of this discussion I’m curious to know what some of you think First World means? What countries are 1st world? What are 2nd world (whatever that actually means). And what are 3rd? Ken’s list certainly fits into the any 1st world category I know of.

And I’m always amused to hear people claim they are debt free, except for a mortgage. That’s usually the largest debt most people carry. I am debt free, for real. I don’t have to drive to work b/c I don’t have to work — for pay that is. That’s what freedom means to me.

The picture I posted earlier is where I am right now. Not another soul to be seen. No other boats, no roads. Wilderness. It’s glorious.

Yep, I picked up on that ""I'm debt free except for the morgage". I'm with you Mike, completely debt free = freedom, that combined with enough income or capital to meet ones needs, and good health of course.

First world, hmmmm countries that do it the way we do, because we're right? I've traveled in quite a few 3rd world countries and have seen poverty in places like Manila yet I've also seen non monetary wealth in some islands in the same country, real freedom, no debt, plenty of food ,shelter ,family and community.

I'm not really sure how you answer your question. I do know that 1st world dosent guarantee happiness and 3rd world dosent always mean unhappiness.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Pete17C

I do all of that here in the US, mostly to keep the cost of first world living within my budget. I get my produce at a farmers market (actually on a farm) in season, so I know the people who grow some of my food. I do all my maintenance (house and auto, I don't own a boat). I have bought fish dockside when chartering on LI Sound.

I'm debt free except for my mortgage, which is less than monthly rental on a two bedroom apartment (I have a four bedroom house) in my area, and I get to cash that out when no longer needed. I live on 7 acres less than an hour from NYC. I pass more farms on my way to work than traffic lights. Best of both worlds (rural/urban) really.

So, I'm quite happy, while it sounds like some of you have limited your options because of your frugalness.

You get what you pay for, and for me, cost is not the first issue. Quality of things purchased and enjoyment of the time spent is more important to me.

Do you want to spend more for front row seats, or be stuck in the bleachers?

This appeared in yesterdays news, how timely:

Confessions from a NYC Suburb Fruit Stand Vendor
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/l...od-scam-artist

[sailorboy1]

here's a real like day in my cruiser life

- 2 of us take bus over to the mall because that's a central location $3
- buy a new backpack because I'm been meaning too for 2 years - $21.38
- have lunch in the food court as we have been wanting lo mein - $20.94
- go to bookstore and get a New Orleans guide for next week - $21.40
- go over to Walmart and get a few sundries and a couple of groceries - $52.69
- get a box of 5 star gourmet wine - $17.99
- take the bus back - $3

viviendo la vida loca

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The total expenses were $ 4,376.31. Cost breakdown as follows for planners and hecklers:

BTW - of this total $1005 were for a month marina stay prepaid for this month, a couple of bicycles, and a prepaid week vacation rental in New Orleans for this month

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Given the turn of this discussion I’m curious to know what some of you think First World means?

Flushing indoor toilets and indoor plumbing so good that you can leave the water running while brushing your teeth

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Pete17C

Do you want to spend more for front row seats, or be stuck in the bleachers?

There is irony in that metaphor somewhere.
The "front row seats" in the context of this forum would no doubt be floating on ANY body of water... spending or not spending.
The "bleachers" for this group would be land. City land bleachers, farm land bleachers.

Over-the-water sunsets don't get better because you spent more, or live in a "first-world" country. The contrary is often true. I just wish it didn't take me half a lifetime to figure that one out...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Flushing indoor toilets and indoor plumbing so good that you can leave the water running while brushing your teeth

Well then, I guess my boat qualifies. Although I do have a composting toilet, and only 200 gallons of water [emoji6].

[Mike OReilly]

This is fun... My real life cruising day involved baking bread, reading, CF posting (b/c this is the first place with good net access I've had in a while). Then I did a little varnishing, made supper of dried beef, veg and some vermicelli noodles. As a final bonus a trio of local fishers (brothers) dropped off three large freshly-caught cod. I know what we're having for dinner tomorrow [emoji1].

Cost for all this: $0.00

Value: priceless

[emoji6][emoji1][emoji6]

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

And I’m always amused to hear people claim they are debt free, except for a mortgage. That’s usually the largest debt most people carry. I am debt free, for real.

Having a Mortgage is considered normal, and the prospect of paying one off is considered silly now, 60 yr old people regularly buy the biggest house they can qualify for on a 30 yr loan now.
People without a mortgage are considered failures, most wonder why you can’t get a mortgage, cause everyone is supposed to have one.
Then anyone will tell you that you can borrow on a house at sub 4% and get 8% on stocks easily, so only a fool owns their home.
The “smart” people are all mortgaged to the hilt.
The concept is the house is their retirement plan, if they buy a smaller house, the money they will make when they retire when they sell it is small, if they buy a McMansion, then when they sell they will make a large amount of money.
That used to be a logical plan, and people who live in booming housing areas will point of past success and show you how that investing in a home outperforms any other investment, and you get to live in a McMansion too.
However being a doubting thomas, I wonder how long that model can hold, I believe it’s already past it’s prime and the housing crunch of 08 showed that, however most people are so convinced it’s the only way that housing prices in many places have recovered and made advances. I see it as people running into a burning building myself.

However as we travel the ICW, I see many, many very expensive homes in expensive areas being foreclosed on and many just abandoned, yes I know the bank owns them, but 20 yrs ago the concept of an empty house on the ICW on a deep water lot in Fl was absurd, now it’s common place.
Many of us stop in Vero Beach, get in the dinghy and take a ride around the many canals and see for yourself.
Then I have seen many a McMansion sir for years trying to sell.

Financing drives the housing market. Years ago in Ft Hood every third house was for sale, but none were buying, but new house construction was booming.
See if you were Military you could move into a new house with VA financing on a $1 move in cost, but you could not do that on a used house, for that you had to come up with a down payment etc.
So as people left to be stationed at another post, their house wouldn’t sell, they owed way more money than it could sell for.
It new house construction continued to boom, and people lined up for that $1 VA move in.

My Wife is a house person, she is like most, she wants a big fancy house, we had one and she wants another.
But she is beginning to come around, we were at her Father’s house this weekend, his 80th birthday is close and he’s in congestive heart failure, and they owe 20 yrs or so on the house, his wife bought a new SUV, and they let slip that they have another loan at the bank too, and his Wife says she is retiring soon? Only assets I know of are her 401 k and their combined SS.
Wife finally saw their house as being too big, so she is beginning to come around, which is good, cause in my Retirement planing there isn’t room for a McMansion, and I’m not eating cat food so that I can live in one either

BTW, right now today, the average size of a house being constructed in the US is over 2,600 sq ft, and we wonder why the poor Millennials are priced out of houses. Maybe it’s because they expect a 3,000 sq ft house?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Having a Mortgage is considered normal, and the prospect of paying one off is considered silly now, 60 yr old people regularly buy the biggest house they can qualify for on a 30 yr loan now.
People without a mortgage are considered failures, most wonder why you can’t get a mortgage, cause everyone is supposed to have one.
Then anyone will tell you that you can borrow on a house at sub 4% and get 8% on stocks easily, so only a fool owns their home.
The “smart” people are all mortgaged to the hilt.
The concept is the house is their retirement plan, if they buy a smaller house, the money they will make when they retire when they sell it is small, if they buy a McMansion, then when they sell they will make a large amount of money.
That used to be a logical plan, and people who live in booming housing areas will point of past success and show you how that investing in a home outperforms any other investment, and you get to live in a McMansion too.
However being a doubting thomas, I wonder how long that model can hold, I believe it’s already past it’s prime and the housing crunch of 08 showed that, however most people are so convinced it’s the only way that housing prices in many places have recovered and made advances. I see it as people running into a burning building myself.

However as we travel the ICW, I see many, many very expensive homes in expensive areas being foreclosed on and many just abandoned, yes I know the bank owns them, but 20 yrs ago the concept of an empty house on the ICW on a deep water lot in Fl was absurd, now it’s common place.
Many of us stop in Vero Beach, get in the dinghy and take a ride around the many canals and see for yourself.
Then I have seen many a McMansion sir for years trying to sell.

Financing drives the housing market. Years ago in Ft Hood every third house was for sale, but none were buying, but new house construction was booming.
See if you were Military you could move into a new house with VA financing on a $1 move in cost, but you could not do that on a used house, for that you had to come up with a down payment etc.
So as people left to be stationed at another post, their house wouldn’t sell, they owed way more money than it could sell for.
It new house construction continued to boom, and people lined up for that $1 VA move in.

My Wife is a house person, she is like most, she wants a big fancy house, we had one and she wants another.
But she is beginning to come around, we were at her Father’s house this weekend, his 80th birthday is close and he’s in congestive heart failure, and they owe 20 yrs or so on the house, his wife bought a new SUV, and they let slip that they have another loan at the bank too, and his Wife says she is retiring soon? Only assets I know of are her 401 k and their combined SS.
Wife finally saw their house as being too big, so she is beginning to come around, which is good, cause in my Retirement planing there isn’t room for a McMansion, and I’m not eating cat food so that I can live in one either

BTW, right now today, the average size of a house being constructed in the US is over 2,600 sq ft, and we wonder why the poor Millennials are priced out of houses. Maybe it’s because they expect a 3,000 sq ft house?

No problem, negative mortgages are here.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...-rate-mortgage

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by daletournier

No problem, negative mortgages are here.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...-rate-mortgage

OK, that is plain bizarre

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Paul L

OK, that is plain bizarre

Yep, but theres more! Theres currently approx 17 trillion dollars of negative yielding bonds in the world 3 trillion of which were only added in the last week and a half. You now pay to have the privilege of lending governments money.

History in the making. 30 years from now the world will look back at where we currently are and are going and say "what were they thinking!"

[daletournier]

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-...60?pfmredir=sm

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Yep, but theres more! Theres currently approx 17 trillion dollars of negative yielding bonds in the world 3 trillion of which were only added in the last week and a half. You now pay to have the privilege of lending governments money.

History in the making. 30 years from now the world will look back at where we currently are and are going and say "what were they thinking!"

Actually it was beginning when I Retired a couple of years ago.
I was having a discussion with my funds manager, and what it amounts to is no one really knows where this will end up, as there is no time in history when this has occurred, we have no precedent to compare it to.

I called him on the phone last week as I feel sure that the conservative approach is to reduce my share of what a I have in the market. I also now have two years worth of cash to draw on if needed to ride out a downturn so I don’t have to sell stock at a low point, which I think is overdue, but then I’m a known paranoid
I’m the furthest thing from a market analyst, but every time I was aware of things not even approaching logic, they went bust, from the .com drop to the housing drop etc.
I don’t pretend to understand the market though.
I knew the .com thing was doomed when I learned that real estate.com had a higher net worth than Delta Airlines, but near as I could determine it had no real property, just rented servers and office etc., and the domain name.