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Old 28-04-2021, 12:40   #16
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pirate Re: Mono versus Multi

Damn.. For some reason I can't get the picture up but, if you look in my picture albums on here you'll see an album Tiki 21.. open that and there's a couple of pics there with the spray hood up..
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Old 28-04-2021, 13:51   #17
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Re: Mono versus Multi

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Methinks you need to look at the Wharram Tiki 38..
Yep, something like that came to my mind too.
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Old 28-04-2021, 13:54   #18
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Re: Mono versus Multi

Budget is of course a key factor. What price range is feasible for you?

Case in point is the Tiki 38. Do you buy and old fixer upper or a new pro build (there are some liscenced pro builders of Wharrams now)?
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Old 28-04-2021, 15:22   #19
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Re: Mono versus Multi

Monos are for sailors and cats are for the sedentary dockers locking for a condo with view.
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Old 28-04-2021, 15:51   #20
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pirate Re: Mono versus Multi

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Monos are for sailors and cats are for the sedentary dockers locking for a condo with view.
I don't know.. its quite fun overtaking a ship in the English Channel in a F7 on a Tiki 26 doing 16kts..
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Old 28-04-2021, 16:10   #21
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Re: Mono versus Multi

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Methinks you need to look at the Wharram Tiki 38..
You beat me to it - even a smaller Tiki such as a 30 might meet the OPs requirements.
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Old 28-04-2021, 16:15   #22
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Re: Mono versus Multi

oh, goodie...another cat v mono thread ! it's been too quiet for too long...

firstly, you've made the right choice. after a lifetime of racing monos (up to 60'), we are now living aboard our second cat and would never go back.

putting it simply : monos are better for sailing...cats are better for living. lots more to it, but that's what it boils down to.

for us the sweet spot for cats is about 40-45', but smaller works as well. the open bridgedeck is a very dated concept and will be hard to find. go that way if you want, but you'll regret it

your profile does not show where you are (suggest to fix that...) so it's a bit hard to identify boats that would suit you...but down here in oz there is the easy series of cats designed by peter snell

here is a typical example
https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...jessica/249577

most (but not all) owner built

good luck !

cheers,
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Old 28-04-2021, 16:32   #23
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Re: Mono versus Multi

Whilst not really hardcore Water boats">blue water boats, Bill O'Brien's designs tick quite a few of your boxes. My father had a Bobcat 26 and it was a relatively simple, roomy, comfortable boat. The previous owner had used it as a liveaboard without any issues. Whilst regarded as more of a motor-sailer, Carbonnel seemed to go quite adequately under sail, and explored the Bristol Channel extensively, and crossed the Irish Sea more than once. Dad performed a major refit with a view to a trip to Australia, via the Med, Suez and the Indian Ocean, so he clearly had confidence in her. Oh, and as this is my father we're talking about, she must have been cheap. Very cheap.

As an aside, the refit included installation of an early diesel outboard (can't remember whose, as this was 20+ years ago, and I was out of the country so I never saw it) so diesel and outboard are not mutually exclusive terms.
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Old 28-04-2021, 17:11   #24
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Re: Mono versus Multi

Can't remember the last time I saw a production cat without delaminated bulkheads or worse. I guess some dock queens might be out there that fared better but one encounter with heavy seas And all bets are off. YMMV
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Old 28-04-2021, 17:54   #25
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Re: Mono versus Multi

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Monos are for sailors and cats are for the sedentary dockers locking for a condo with view.

yeh but be careful thinking you will find dockage for a cat. Most marinas were built for monohulls. And you will pay for the extra beam.
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Old 28-04-2021, 18:57   #26
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Re: Mono versus Multi

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Can't remember the last time I saw a production cat without delaminated bulkheads or worse. I guess some dock queens might be out there that fared better but one encounter with heavy seas And all bets are off. YMMV


Please define what you call a delaminated bulkhead.
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Old 29-04-2021, 11:58   #27
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Re: Mono versus Multi

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Monos are for sailors and cats are for the sedentary dockers locking for a condo with view.

It's good to know we have a REAL SAILOR amongst us to show us the way to glory. I think you will however find that there are hundreds of real sailors among the voyaging community sailing cats. You will find them crossing oceans.....sailing to remote ports and islands. I assume you also have sailed the seven seas and visited the many remote places. I'm eager to hear how sailing a monohull across an ocean will make me a better sailor, or why I should live in a hole while anchored in a beautiful exotic place.
This thread was not started as forum for debating the virtues of cats versus monos. You can do that in the yacht club bar with a belly full of whiskey. It was intended to share my own decision, and how and why I arrived at it. I suspect that monos spend just as much time in marinas and at anchor as cats and trimarans.



The issue here is not which boat is better for whatever you do, it is which boat is best suited to what I want to do, and I outlined the reasons for the choice fairly clearly. I want a boat I can live comfortably in..... If that is un-seaman-like So be it. I have nothing to prove to anybody.... one of my glaring personality flaws ;-) I don't want to have to sleep with a lee cloth, or cook with a butt strap or sea swing, or worry about that pot of stew being spread all over the cabin; if I don't have to. I'm not interested in spending weeks at a time rolling from rail to rail sailing downwind, or in walking on walls, and living on my ear if I don't have to. I want to be able to do things under way or at anchor... fixing things, building things etc. You don't have to tie up to a dock to keep those carburetor parts on the table... etc. Your mileage obviously varies.



I'm reminded of a trip I took in my little Subaru Legacy wagon far back on the remote rim of Hell's Canyon. I intended to camp right out on a point, and the road was brutal, with huge mud holes (I could mostly avoid) and steep grades with rocks that I couldn't always get around. I even got out and pried a few out and got them out of the way so I could get by.... it was snowing, and a stiff icy wind was blowing. At the summit of the road were 5 jacked up 4x4 pickups with huge monster mudder tires parked, and a roaring fire, and a group of young men drinking beer and telling stories. Each pickup had a pair of balls hanging from the hitch. I was going about 5 miles further... the road turning into not much more than a goat trail, but I couldn't resist stopping to visit. They of course offered me a beer.... and tried not to look crestfallen....real men drive jacked up 4x4's ;-) I was old enough to be a father to any of them, and have been driving the back country all my life....... They couldn't really say anything. I got some pleasure out of bursting their bubble, and then continuing on to camp the night far out on the rim.



They had the wisdom and tact that comes with maturity.... Something utterly lacking in your comment. Grow up!
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Old 29-04-2021, 12:21   #28
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Re: Mono versus Multi

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Originally Posted by owly View Post

The issue here is not which boat is better for whatever you do, it is which boat is best suited to what I want to do, and I outlined the reasons for the choice fairly clearly. I want a boat I can live comfortably in..... If that is un-seaman-like So be it. I have nothing to prove to anybody.... one of my glaring personality flaws ;-) I don't want to have to sleep with a lee cloth, or cook with a butt strap or sea swing, or worry about that pot of stew being spread all over the cabin; if I don't have to. I'm not interested in spending weeks at a time rolling from rail to rail sailing downwind, or in walking on walls, and living on my ear if I don't have to. I want to be able to do things under way or at anchor... fixing things, building things etc. You don't have to tie up to a dock to keep those carburetor parts on the table... etc. Your mileage obviously varies.



I'm reminded of a trip I took in my little Subaru Legacy wagon far back on the remote rim of Hell's Canyon. I intended to camp right out on a point, and the road was brutal, with huge mud holes (I could mostly avoid) and steep grades with rocks that I couldn't always get around. I even got out and pried a few out and got them out of the way so I could get by.... it was snowing, and a stiff icy wind was blowing. At the summit of the road were 5 jacked up 4x4 pickups with huge monster mudder tires parked, and a roaring fire, and a group of young men drinking beer and telling stories. Each pickup had a pair of balls hanging from the hitch. I was going about 5 miles further... the road turning into not much more than a goat trail, but I couldn't resist stopping to visit. They of course offered me a beer.... and tried not to look crestfallen....real men drive jacked up 4x4's ;-) I was old enough to be a father to any of them, and have been driving the back country all my life....... They couldn't really say anything. I got some pleasure out of bursting their bubble, and then continuing on to camp the night far out on the rim.

I'm not so sure of that!
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Old 29-04-2021, 12:23   #29
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Re: Mono versus Multi

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I ultimately came to the conclusion which is obvious from what I wrote above, that a multihull is what I need.
Funny... my desires match yours fairly close, but I opted for a twin keeled Westerly Centaur, while keeping an eye out for a Fulmar. The latter would give me just that last little bit of comfortable room, but the former was convenient and fits the bill well enough. Guess we've got differing standards, and we want what we want.
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Old 29-04-2021, 12:23   #30
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Re: Mono versus Multi

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Please define what you call a delaminated bulkhead.
Soggy MDF bulkheads caused by leaking escape hatches. Bulkheads separated from the hull.
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