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Old 14-08-2019, 09:24   #31
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

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Originally Posted by StoneCrab View Post
I think I'd try to negotiate something that works for you and pacifies the complainers at the same time. That may mean that you agree to leave within a time-frame... which is essentially where you are at now. If that wasn't successful, I'd just move on.

I don't see a negotiation here. They want him to move his boat, but he's legally anchored, and not a threat to anyone.

This is landowners wanting to extend their riparian rights.
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Old 14-08-2019, 09:31   #32
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

>> However, law enforcement officials are should be beholden to the law, not local homeowners.

FTFY

You guys do realize that some areas even in so-called first world countries, are rife with corruption and violence right?

Having lived most of my life living in such jurisdictions, I assure you my concerns are not paranoid.

Keeping your head down, moving along to avoid conflict are key to a happy peaceful life.

If you get a lot of pride and fulfillment putting in a lot of time and energy playing righteous justice warrior, fine, go for it. Just don't assume doing so is risk free.
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Old 14-08-2019, 11:09   #33
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

If you are legal get a lawyer. Have him write a letter to the FWC stating your legal position, cite the officer's name, and that any further harassment wil result in a lawsuit. Install a camera onboard so everything is taped. If they are good cops they will always want to deescalate and go on about their business. If they are not, then arguing with them is a waste of time. You have to go legal on them. If the lawyer doesn't work then leave the area. FL is a very corrupt state and there is no telling what would happen to you.
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Old 14-08-2019, 12:08   #34
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

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FL is a very corrupt state and there is no telling what would happen to you.
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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
You guys do realize that some areas even in so-called first world countries, are rife with corruption and violence right?

I haven't heard of anyone "disappearing" because they anchored in front of some rich guys house.
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Old 14-08-2019, 12:36   #35
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

FYI.

The 2019 Florida Statutes

Title XXIV
VESSELS
Chapter 327
VESSEL SAFETY

327.4108 Anchoring of vessels in anchoring limitation areas.—
(1) The following densely populated urban areas, which have narrow state waterways, residential docking facilities, and significant recreational boating traffic, are designated as anchoring limitation areas:
(a) The section of Middle River lying between Northeast 21st Court and the Intracoastal Waterway in Broward County.
(b) Sunset Lake in Miami-Dade County.
(c) The sections of Biscayne Bay in Miami-Dade County lying between:
1. Rivo Alto Island and Di Lido Island.
2. San Marino Island and San Marco Island.
3. San Marco Island and Biscayne Island.
(2) To promote the public’s use and enjoyment of the designated waterway, except as provided in subsections (3) and (4), a person may not anchor a vessel at any time during the period between one-half hour after sunset and one-half hour before sunrise in an anchoring limitation area.
(3) Notwithstanding subsection (2), a person may anchor a vessel in an anchoring limitation area:
(a) If the vessel suffers a mechanical failure that poses an unreasonable risk of harm to the vessel or the persons onboard unless the vessel anchors. The vessel may anchor for 3 business days or until the vessel is repaired, whichever occurs first.
(b) If imminent or existing weather conditions in the vicinity of the vessel pose an unreasonable risk of harm to the vessel or the persons onboard unless the vessel anchors. The vessel may anchor until weather conditions no longer pose such risk. During a hurricane or tropical storm, weather conditions are deemed to no longer pose an unreasonable risk of harm when the hurricane or tropical storm warning affecting the area has expired.
(c) During events described in s. 327.48 or other special events, including, but not limited to, public music performances, local government waterfront activities, or fireworks displays. A vessel may anchor for the lesser of the duration of the special event or 3 days.
(4) This section does not apply to:
(a) Vessels owned or operated by a governmental entity for law enforcement, firefighting, military, or rescue purposes.
(b) Construction or dredging vessels on an active job site.
(c) Vessels actively engaged in commercial fishing.
(d) Vessels engaged in recreational fishing if the persons onboard are actively tending hook and line fishing gear or nets.
(5)(a) As used in this subsection, the term “law enforcement officer or agency” means an officer or agency authorized to enforce this section pursuant to s. 327.70.
(b) A law enforcement officer or agency may remove a vessel from an anchoring limitation area and impound the vessel for up to 48 hours, or cause such removal and impoundment, if the vessel operator, after being issued a citation for a violation of this section:
1. Anchors the vessel in violation of this section within 12 hours after being issued the citation; or
2. Refuses to leave the anchoring limitation area after being directed to do so by a law enforcement officer or agency.
(c) A law enforcement officer or agency acting under this subsection to remove or impound a vessel, or to cause such removal or impoundment, shall be held harmless for any damage to the vessel resulting from such removal or impoundment unless the damage results from gross negligence or willful misconduct.
(d) A contractor performing removal or impoundment services at the direction of a law enforcement officer or agency pursuant to this subsection must:
1. Be licensed in accordance with United States Coast Guard regulations, as applicable.
2. Obtain and carry a current policy issued by a licensed insurance carrier in this state to insure against any accident, loss, injury, property damage, or other casualty caused by or resulting from the contractor’s actions.
3. Be properly equipped to perform such services.
(e) In addition to the civil penalty imposed under s. 327.73(1)(z), the operator of a vessel that is removed and impounded pursuant to paragraph (b) must pay all removal and storage fees before the vessel is released. A vessel removed pursuant to paragraph (b) may not be impounded for longer than 48 hours.
(6) A violation of this section is punishable as provided in s. 327.73(1)(z).
(7) This section shall remain in effect notwithstanding the Legislature’s adoption of the commission’s recommendations for the regulation of mooring vessels outside of public mooring fields pursuant to 1s. 327.4105.
History.—s. 1, ch. 2016-96; s. 5, ch. 2017-163.
1Note.—Repealed by s. 11, ch. 2018-111.

327.4109 Anchoring or mooring prohibited; exceptions; penalties.—
(1)(a) The owner or operator of a vessel or floating structure may not anchor or moor such that the nearest approach of the anchored or moored vessel or floating structure is:
1. Within 150 feet of any marina, boat ramp, boatyard, or other vessel launching or loading facility;
2. Within 300 feet of a superyacht repair facility. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “superyacht repair facility” means a facility that services or repairs a yacht with a water line of 120 feet or more in length; or
3. Within 100 feet outward from the marked boundary of a public mooring field or a lesser distance if approved by the commission upon request of a local government within which the mooring field is located. The commission may adopt rules to implement this subparagraph.
(b) This subsection does not apply to:
1. A vessel owned or operated by a governmental entity.
2. A construction or dredging vessel on an active job site.
3. A commercial fishing vessel actively engaged in commercial fishing.
4. A vessel actively engaged in recreational fishing if the persons onboard are actively tending hook and line fishing gear or nets.
(2) Notwithstanding subsection (1), an owner or operator of a vessel may anchor or moor within 150 feet of any marina, boat ramp, boatyard, or other vessel launching or loading facility; within 300 feet of a superyacht repair facility; or within 100 feet outward from the marked boundary of a public mooring field if:
(a) The vessel suffers a mechanical failure that poses an unreasonable risk of harm to the vessel or the persons onboard such vessel. The owner or operator of the vessel may anchor or moor for 5 business days or until the vessel is repaired, whichever occurs first.
(b) Imminent or existing weather conditions in the vicinity of the vessel pose an unreasonable risk of harm to the vessel or the persons onboard such vessel. The owner or operator of the vessel may anchor or moor until weather conditions no longer pose such risk. During a hurricane or tropical storm, weather conditions are deemed to no longer pose an unreasonable risk of harm when the hurricane or tropical storm warning affecting the area has expired.
(3) The owner or operator of a vessel or floating structure may not anchor or moor within the marked boundary of a public mooring field unless the owner or operator has a lawful right to do so by contractual agreement or other business arrangement.
(4) The owner or operator of a vessel or floating structure may not anchor, moor, tie, or otherwise affix or allow the vessel or floating structure to remain anchored, moored, tied, or otherwise affixed to an unpermitted, unauthorized, or otherwise unlawful object that is on or affixed to the bottom of the waters of this state. This subsection does not apply to a private mooring owned by the owner of privately owned submerged lands.
(5) A violation of this section is a noncriminal infraction, punishable as provided in s. 327.73(1)(bb).
(6)(a) As used in this subsection, and applied only for the purposes of the study required by this subsection and not for any other purposes, the term “long-term stored vessel” means a vessel on the waters of the state which is not under the supervision and control of a person capable of operating, maintaining, or moving it from one location to another and which has remained anchored or moored outside of a public mooring field for at least 30 days out of a 60-day period.
(b) The commission shall conduct, or contract with a private vendor to conduct, for not longer than 2 years, a study of the impacts of long-term stored vessels on local communities and this state.
(c) The study shall:
1. Investigate whether, and to what extent, long-term stored vessels and vessels anchored or moored outside of public mooring fields for more than 30 days contribute to the number of derelict and abandoned vessels on the waters of the state.
2. Investigate the impacts of long-term stored vessels, vessels anchored or moored outside of public mooring fields for more than 30 days, and vessels moored within public mooring fields on the local and state economies; public safety; public boat ramps, staging docks, and public marinas; and the environment during and after significant tropical storm and hurricane events.
3. Provide recommendations for appropriate management options for long-term stored vessels and vessels anchored or moored outside public mooring fields for more than 30 days to mitigate any identified negative impacts to local communities and this state.
(d) The commission shall submit a report of its findings and recommendations to the Governor, the President of the Senate, and the Speaker of the House of Representatives within 6 months after the study is completed.
(e) This subsection is contingent upon appropriation by the Legislature.
(f) This subsection expires January 1, 2024.
History.—s. 6, ch. 2017-163; s. 2, ch. 2019-54.
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Old 14-08-2019, 12:58   #36
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

Lot depends on exactly how the "rich guy" made their millions don't it?
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Old 14-08-2019, 13:57   #37
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

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Lot depends on exactly how the "rich guy" made their millions don't it?
It does. And if anyone knows Miami, most of the homeowner are not exactly legit. Lots and lots of crime proceeds from all over the world buy the real estate there.
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Old 14-08-2019, 14:06   #38
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

(b) The commission shall conduct, or contract with a private vendor to conduct, for not longer than 2 years, a study of the impacts of long-term stored vessels on local communities and this state.
(c) The study shall:
1. Investigate whether, and to what extent, long-term stored vessels and vessels anchored or moored outside of public mooring fields for more than 30 days contribute to the number of derelict and abandoned vessels on the waters of the state.
2. Investigate the impacts of long-term stored vessels, vessels anchored or moored outside of public mooring fields for more than 30 days, and vessels moored within public mooring fields on the local and state economies; public safety; public boat ramps, staging docks, and public marinas; and the environment during and after significant tropical storm and hurricane events.
3. Provide recommendations for appropriate management options for long-term stored vessels and vessels anchored or moored outside public mooring fields for more than 30 days to mitigate any identified negative impacts to local communities and this state.
(d) The commission shall submit a report of its findings and recommendations to the Governor, the President of the Senate, and the Speaker of the House of Representatives within 6 months after the study is completed.






That's certainly troubling.


Will the concerns of cruisers be considered, or will this be a way to restrict cruisers to municipal mooring fields?
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Old 14-08-2019, 14:11   #39
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

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Originally Posted by CFS Klopas View Post
Get the phone number of the appropriate person at MBPD, head of the Marine Unit would be best. Tell the FWC guy to call him if he comes back. You may also get MB to put the lack of an ordinance prohibiting anchorage in writing, though I suspect they won't do that.

I have to warn you that if FWC tells you to leave and you don't, he may arrest you for failure to obey a lawful order. If it turns out the order wasn't lawful, you would have to sue to be made whole.

316.072 Obedience to and effect of traffic laws.—(1) PROVISIONS OF CHAPTER REFERRING TO VEHICLES UPON THE HIGHWAYS.—The provisions of this chapter shall apply to the operation of vehicles and bicycles and the movement of pedestrians upon all state-maintained highways, county-maintained highways, and municipal streets and alleys and wherever vehicles have the right to travel.
(2) REQUIRED OBEDIENCE TO TRAFFIC LAWS.—It is unlawful for any person to do any act forbidden, or to fail to perform any act required, in this chapter. It is unlawful for the owner, or any other person employing or otherwise directing the driver of any vehicle, to require or knowingly permit the operation of such vehicle upon a highway in any manner contrary to law. A violation of this subsection is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a moving violation as provided in chapter 318.
(3) OBEDIENCE TO POLICE AND FIRE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS.—It is unlawful and a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083, for any person willfully to fail or refuse to comply with any lawful order or direction of any law enforcement officer, traffic crash investigation officer as described in s. 316.640, traffic infraction enforcement officer as described in s. 316.640, or member of the fire department at the scene of a fire, rescue operation, or other emergency. Notwithstanding the provisions of this subsection, certified emergency medical technicians or paramedics may respond to the scene of emergencies and may provide emergency medical treatment on the scene and provide transport of patients in the performance of their duties for an emergency medical services provider licensed under chapter 401 and in accordance with any local emergency medical response protocols.




Note that the failure to obey a lawful order only applies to vehicles on a public highway, it does not mention vessels at all. If a water cop told me he was giving me a lawful order to move from an anchorage where I had every right, I might actually thank him for his and the states future major contribution to my cruising kitty.
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Old 14-08-2019, 14:27   #40
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

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I haven't heard of anyone "disappearing" because they anchored in front of some rich guys house.
Iam not saying he would be "disappeared". What I was trying to point out is that usually, when one gets an attorney involved, the object of your legal action understands you are serious. Calling, writing letters, appearing in person are all things that can be ignored. Most people do that stuff. But if it gets to the point where you pay some bucks to an attorney to make your point, they understand you are serious. Most officials/individuals will back off when they understand the law is on your side and that you are serious about exercising your rights. If they don't, then there is usually something else at play. FL in 2012 was ranked the most corrupt state in the US. Miami is the 4th most corrupt city in 2019. Those are not just anecdotes but actual rankings from research studies. On average, 71 govt officials in FL are convicted of corruption charges every year. Who knows what this cop would do if he is one of the corrupt ones? Plant some drugs? Stage a resisting arrest? The point is if you go the official legal route and STILL meet stiff resistance, then it might be a good idea to fold your tent and slip away. Unless you want to get into a real serious fight.
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Old 14-08-2019, 14:42   #41
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

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Lot depends on exactly how the "rich guy" made their millions don't it?
People don't get wealthy by being nice guys. Sure, they may have inherited the money, but somewhere along the line it was originally made by greed, corruption, and/or downright robbery. Some of these people are dangerous.
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Old 14-08-2019, 15:12   #42
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

I'm originally from Miami and used to sail down there quite a bit. All the coverage about the new anchoring restrictions, etc. therefore interest me. I'd like to encourage the OP to let us know what ultimately transpires, and I'm sure he appreciates some of the constructive suggestions.

So in the interest of not chasing off the OP or others not so consumed with the powerful/powerless, oppressor/victim, rich/poor class warfare-type themes, could we perhaps stick to the OP's specific concerns? And yes, Miami has a rep, some of it well-deserved, for being a rough area to some extent. But no, like anywhere else, "most" of the homeowners are not in fact "illegitimate." Neither are "most" law enforcement in the area. On the contrary, the OP's description suggests the Miami Beach marine police have been quite courteous & fair. It's quite possible that this is confined to a single FWC (state) LE official who may be overzealous or doesn't fully understand the regs. Personally, I would approach it with that assumption going forward until/unless the problem persists or escalates.
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Old 14-08-2019, 15:42   #43
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

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I don't see a negotiation here. They want him to move his boat, but he's legally anchored, and not a threat to anyone.

This is landowners wanting to extend their riparian rights.
I'm rarely wrong but I've been wronged numerous times. Just because you are right, or in the right doesn't mean that the best play is always digging in.

All I was saying is that negotiating some time, gives the legal beagles something to go back to the landowners with making them look responsive, you get the time you need to get sorted out and then you move on.

If the intent is to permanently live at anchor off someone's back door, it will screw things up for those who are legitimately cruising and need a place to anchor.
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Old 14-08-2019, 15:58   #44
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

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I'm rarely wrong but I've been wronged numerous times. Just because you are right, or in the right doesn't mean that the best play is always digging in.

All I was saying is that negotiating some time, gives the legal beagles something to go back to the landowners with making them look responsive, you get the time you need to get sorted out and then you move on.

If the intent is to permanently live at anchor off someone's back door, it will screw things up for those who are legitimately cruising and need a place to anchor.

If what you're saying is "Don't make them mad, because they'll get the crooked politicians to write the laws so that nobody else can anchor there", I wish I could argue with you, but I can't.
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Old 14-08-2019, 16:37   #45
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Re: Miami Beach Anchoring Harassment

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Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
I haven't heard of anyone "disappearing" because they anchored in front of some rich guys house.
Well, you probably wouldn't. Would you?
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