Low Cost Cruising Details

[a64pilot]

Money wise I can tell you to the dime how much I get each month as I’m Retired and it’s fixed. We also have a lot of land based expenses with kids car Insurence a Daughter in College etc., as well as storage and hanger rent, boat Insurence etc.
I can’t tell if how much we spend on this and that, cause it’s just not that important to me, so long as there is money left over at the end of the month, we are OK.
It’s when we are sitting out Hurricane season in a Marina that our expenses are high, that’s when we have a car, Wife does some shopping, and I do boat projects and of course Amazon is just a click away

We provision up heavily before we cruise and pretty much never, ever stay in a Marina, (fingers crossed) and we save thousands of dollars each month that way, but as I said we provisioned up before we left. Except for eating out once a week or so and a little fuel here and there, what is there to spend money on?

I have never tried to break it down to see exactly where the money goes, why bother?

If I had to take an educated guess, I’d say that if you set aside $1,000 a month for boat maintenance and add in how much it cost to eat, and what it cost to be clothed and your at min expenditure, any above that is nice, but not necessary.

Depending on age etc of the boat and how much actual traveling you do, how complex the boat is, the $1,000 could be considered high or even low.

But I’d swag it can be done and done sustainably for $1,400 to $1,500 a month per couple, especially if on a simple, smaller boat without all the luxuries, but add watermakers, satellite TV, mucho electronics, generators etc and the expenses will increase.

The sustainably is I think the key, anyone can sit in a paid for house and just survive for next to nothing, same for a boat, but eventually that house and that boat is going to need some repairs, and for example a roof or new HVAC isn’t cheap, but neither is sails or a new engine.

When we sit in an anchorage, I often will invite others over for Sundowners, most do come and it’s often a nice experience, but I have noticed that often it’s not reciprocated and wondered why.

Met a nice couple in an IP 31 where we are now, they had said they had been stuck here for over a week due to the high winds. I asked how they were for water, His Wife made it plain after I asked they they could use some, so I said well I have a watermaker and make 30 gls an hour just come get some.
They didn’t, so I went over the next day and said I’m making water, come over and get some, they came over and you could tell they wanted to give me something in return for some reason, but it’s just water. I make 30 gls an hour, what’s giving away 10? 20 min of running the watermaker is all.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

That's a good question Mike, I'm not so sure I have the answer. You might as I know you study demographics but here is what I have observed.
When we first started cruising about 35+ years ago most cruisers were around our age and similar budgets so we had lots and lots of people to hang out with and we all had lots in common. Even at that time there were cruisers that were older than us with larger boats and bigger budgets but not that many. There were also what we called kid cruisers who were in their 20's who knew how not to spend money, it helps when you don't have any, lol. They were in old small boats with tired sails and tired everything but were fun to hang around because generally people that age just see the positive and don't dwell on the negative. Some were ocean crossers but many just hung around and went back to work once every year or two.
Another important point is that there were not that many of us back then. This is pre gps and not that many folks wanted to learn celestial navigation much less cross oceans so much smaller numbers. I'd say that most cruisers were high adventure types who wanted to see what was on the other side and were thrilled with crossing oceans.
So time marches on and then along came gps and cruising exploded. Rallies were introduced and soon tons of people wanted to get a sailboat and go cruising however most still were not endeared with crossing oceans and preferred the protected waters of the Med or Mexico, Caribbean or other coastal type cruising. During all this time along came the internet and weather forecasting that we could only dream about and it again made it easier for people to get involved with less and less preparation and knowledge than was required in the past.
Throughout this time period it seemed like everyone just sort of stayed my age and fewer and fewer young people were getting involved.
It was also getting much more expensive because in the past we would forgo luxuries like refrigeration and radar and chart plotters , watermakers etc., well in many cases they hadn't even been invented, lol but most cruisers were very minimalist at that time but today not so much so costs are way higher and maintenance and upkeep way higher. It's just a totally different experience these days. We drag our complex world around with us and its associated problems.
It would have been unheard of back then to enter a new Anchorage and not be asked to get together with anyone else that was there, these days everyone has fakebook friends and may or may not be interested in meeting you. There is also caravans of people cruising together and buddy boats that prefer their own company so while cruising is still very social it's not as social as it once was.
Anyways those are some observations...I expect that younger people are not as interested in adventure these days, they have grown up in a world where their parents protected them a little too much so risk taking is low on their list of to do's plus there are so many other fun things out there for the risk takers to do, snow boarding, mountain biking, the list goes on and they don't break the bank.
I will say this, if a child has spent a couple of years cruising with their parents then it's pretty high odds they will dream of owning a boat on day and sailing off across the horizon...you tell me?

good post, Robert! It parallels our experience quite closely. Now WE are the old fart cruisers, but we still wander around the anchorage and chat folks up. Some appreciate it, some look kinda confused... "huh? we don't know you, so why are you talking to us?, and some seem annoyed. Their loss...

Anyhow, thanks for the well written history and interpretation.

Jim

[JPA Cate]

Ah, the Rallies! We were in the Tuamotus the second time when we learned that if you tell a group about a special place, groups will flock there, and the locals cannot sustain their preferred welcomes!

The Rallies appeal to people who lack the confidence to make all their own decisions, and they pay money for the project, so they have a lot invested in being cliqueish. They also appeal to the inexperienced, who believe there will be more safety in numbers. I am aware of one assistance that worked in one Puddle Jump, but imho, the safety in numbers is mainly illusory.

Our experience as outsiders to rallies is that sometimes they hoick themselves up to what they think is fun, and may involve unintentional damage to others. I'm remembering a time when a NZ based rallye group decided it would be fun to go through the anchorage throwing buckets of salt water at boats. Results, laundry that had to be re-done, and one guy's SSB radio got shorted out--most cruisers didn't have Satphone, then. The perpetrators thought it was all good fun. I'm not allowed to say here what I thought, but for those of you with washing machines nearby, this was before people had washing machines on board. You did laundry in buckets, after passages, when you arrived at fresh water sources. It took about a morning to do everything, and everything, of course had to be wrung out many times: wash, wring; rinse, wring; and rinse again and wring. Clothing, sheets, towels. Then it would be pegged out. One "fun" bucket toss and it all had to be done again. It was [adjective of your choice] careless.

Diversion over. The rallies have had many different effects on the scene; and so have changing times. But everything changes, and not always for the better.

Mike, the closer to the end of the road you go, the friendlier the people are. I am glad you're finding proper cruiser friendliness together. Simply being Canadian is undoubtedly a help. Your maple leaf is a flag we like to see.

Ann

[Cthoops]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

But I’d swag it can be done and done sustainably for $1,400 to $1,500 a month per couple, especially if on a simple, smaller boat without all the luxuries, but add watermakers, satellite TV, mucho electronics, generators etc and the expenses will increase.

We have a Bristol 29.9, more complex than what we left with but still pretty basic.

I don’t think $1,400-$1,500/month is sustainable for more than a year or two, at least not actively cruising the US East Coast and Bahamas (although I really wish it was). Those are our cruising grounds and the only way we could do it is if we didn’t travel to visit family once a year (his in Western New York, mine in Southern California), we completely stayed out of marinas, and we didn’t have any boat expenses or upgrades. Could we do that for a year, maybe two? Perhaps. But the longer a person cruises the less likely that would be possible if you simply factor in a periodic haul out and maintenance.

Just our monthly non-negotiable expenses (food, insurance, medication, etc.) run close to $1,000/month. Ok, we could go without health/life/boat insurance, cancel the phone/internet access, and eat Ramen every day and then we’d be well under $1,000, but as I approach 51 and Mr. cthoops 61, that’s not how we intend to live.

As an aside, a few people always comment on these threads about how they don’t want to spend their time counting every penny and seem to imply there is something odd about those who do. I can’t speak for Sailorboy, but we have used YNAB for years to keep track of our spending. It takes less than a minute a day and only a few minutes to compile our monthly numbers. Using the program enabled us to become debt free and sail away. Anyone making those types of comments from their desk at home, thinking they could never be able to afford to do this, may want to look into getting a bit more granular with their monthly spending. We were shocked at how much money we were wasting when we first started using the app.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The sustainably is I think the key, anyone can sit in a paid for house and just survive for next to nothing, same for a boat, but eventually that house and that boat is going to need some repairs, and for example a roof or new HVAC isn’t cheap, but neither is sails or a new engine.

This. If someone sits in an anchorage and doesn’t move or perform any maintenance on their boat, then it will generally be much less expensive on a monthly basis. If you want to go places and have experiences when you get there, the costs are going to go up. It all comes down to why each person is doing this.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

When we sit in an anchorage, I often will invite others over for Sundowners, most do come and it’s often a nice experience, but I have noticed that often it’s not reciprocated and wondered why.

This has been the most surprising thing to me about cruising. Before we left I read about how you make friends everywhere you go and are gathering together every night for sundowners, beach parties, etc. That hasn’t proven to be the case and it’s disappointing. People seem to keep to themselves or buddy boat in a clique. Part of it is on us in that we prefer quieter anchorages, but it has not been the fast friendship experience we were led to believe. Not at all.

A64pilot, we’d be happy to share sundowners if we’re ever in the same anchorage!

[AKA-None]

Sideways but I asked someone in class what they thought about going sailing sometime and they said nope to boring. 20 something never sailed but considered it to boring.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Cthoops

We have a Bristol 29.9, more complex than what we left with but still pretty basic.

I don’t think $1,400-$1,500/month is sustainable for more than a year or two, at least not actively cruising the US East Coast and Bahamas (although I really wish it was). Those are our cruising grounds and the only way we could do it is if we didn’t travel to visit family once a year (his in Western New York, mine in Southern California), we completely stayed out of marinas, and we didn’t have any boat expenses or upgrades. Could we do that for a year, maybe two? Perhaps. But the longer a person cruises the less likely that would be possible if you simply factor in a periodic haul out and maintenance.

Just our monthly non-negotiable expenses (food, insurance, medication, etc.) run close to $1,000/month. Ok, we could go without health/life/boat insurance, cancel the phone/internet access, and eat Ramen every day and then we’d be well under $1,000, but as I approach 51 and Mr. cthoops 61, that’s not how we intend to live.

As an aside, a few people always comment on these threads about how they don’t want to spend their time counting every penny and seem to imply there is something odd about those who do. I can’t speak for Sailorboy, but we have used YNAB for years to keep track of our spending. It takes less than a minute a day and only a few minutes to compile our monthly numbers. Using the program enabled us to become debt free and sail away. Anyone making those types of comments from their desk at home, thinking they could never be able to afford to do this, may want to look into getting a bit more granular with their monthly spending. We were shocked at how much money we were wasting when we first started using the app.



This. If someone sits in an anchorage and doesn’t move or perform any maintenance on their boat, then it will generally be much less expensive on a monthly basis. If you want to go places and have experiences when you get there, the costs are going to go up. It all comes down to why each person is doing this.



This has been the most surprising thing to me about cruising. Before we left I read about how you make friends everywhere you go and are gathering together every night for sundowners, beach parties, etc. That hasn’t proven to be the case and it’s disappointing. People seem to keep to themselves or buddy boat in a clique. Part of it is on us in that we prefer quieter anchorages, but it has not been the fast friendship experience we were led to believe. Not at all.

A64pilot, we’d be happy to share sundowners if we’re ever in the same anchorage!

You know that you first said it couldn’t be done, then outlined how it could be done and that you didn’t want to live that way.
And yes as you noticed I didn’t include cell phones, Insurence of any kind, or medications etc. just the bare scrape by essentials. Now many will say we couldn’t live without us both having a cell phone etc., but you really can, and it’s not a big deal, really.
I wouldn’t want to live that way myself, but have, and hope have planned and saved well enough so that I never will have to.

A lot of our income is discretionary spending, and I guess that’s why other than laziness that I don’t track where it goes, being discretionary it’s easy to reduce if needed, if there were have to be made boat payments etc, then that you can’t cut back on.

The only time I have in my life ever tracked where they money went, was when I had to watch where it went or there wouldn’t be enough.

Now I’m not saying we live the high life, we don’t, but I have adopted a lifestyle that is low enough so that I don’t have to watch monthly expenses to ensure we don’t run out.
Tracking every dollar would induce stress over money, and I don’t want that.
So far as tracking what the boat costs, I guess you can say I really don’t want to know that, cause if I did then it’s not a stretch to decide that it’s too expensive and the boat is a money pit.

So, not saying those that do track every dollar are weird, just that I don’t want to.
The Wife at the start wrote down every dollar we spent, but we never did anything with that data once we found that there was enough to not to have to watch it, so she stopped.

[Cthoops]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

You know that you first said it couldn’t be done, then outlined how it could be done and that you didn’t want to live that way.

I said it wasn’t sustainable, not that it couldn’t be done. At some point if you cruise long enough you’re going to have some bigger expenses which will blow that $1,500/month out of the water.

Guess it depends over what period of time a person defines “sustainable.”

[Jim Cate]

This has been the most surprising thing to me about cruising. Before we left I read about how you make friends everywhere you go and are gathering together every night for sundowners, beach parties, etc. That hasn’t proven to be the case and it’s disappointing. People seem to keep to themselves or buddy boat in a clique. Part of it is on us in that we prefer quieter anchorages, but it has not been the fast friendship experience we were led to believe. Not at all.

I'm so sorry to hear this, CTH. Friendships with other cruisers are a very important part of the cruising life for us. I wonder if you are at all proactive socially? When you reach those quieter anchorages, do you wander a bout in the dink and introduce yourselves to the few other boats there? Breaking the ice in this manner is often productive. We will often just invite one or more other crew over for a cuppa... a very non-threatening social situation. No expense to speak of, so no worries about reciprocation, no alcohol involved, daylight hours... pretty benign, and we get a fairly high acceptance rate. If such a meeting shows compatibility then it often expands into further socializing. Or sometimes I'll just go around to ALL the other boats in the quiet anchorage and invite them for a BYO happy hour on Insatiable. We've generated some very enjoyable evenings, often followed by reciprocal invitations from those on board. A bit of overcrowding sometimes erupts, but we've always managed somehow... albeit not with much elbow room.

And sometimes we're just rebuffed (as I mentioned upthread). Oh well, that's life, and not much of an investment lost. But the potential benefits outweigh the occasional disappointments. I do remember one couple in Mexico (some years ago when we were a bit younger and more attractive) who promptly suggested a bit of wife swapping! Shocking, for we hadn't been properly introduced... But mostly it has had good outcomes.

If you haven't given this method a try, do so when you can. It might open up some doors for you.

Jim

[Matt Johnson]

Our first time in the Bahamas was 2012. Everywhere we went we were met with greetings, people offering drinks, potlucks and other get togethers. This was before the Bahamas were covered with cell phone towers.

Two years later there was much less community but more web connections.

In 2017 we barely lost internet the entire time we were there... and never had a single knock on our hull from anyone we didn't already know. We sat all alone at the beach spots where past cruisers built makeshift bars and benches for the old school parties. But I was able to watched Netflix at night :0


Mike- Norway can be pricey, but like you, I don't go out to eat. Unlike you, I don't drink much at all and then just cheap beer These are the two biggest expenses in Norway. Nothing else is a Low Cost Cruising budget buster.

We did spend more time in marinas than I would have liked, but they gave access to places we wanted to visit that would have been very difficult to do anchoring and dinghy in (acceptable anchorages were often miles away). Remember, this is an area of deep water fjords, unpredictable high winds, and lots of fisherman that have already taken the few good spots for moorings Stay away from the popular natural sites that tourist flock to, and you can easily not touch a marina for months. But the marinas were on average around $20 a night, so not outrageous when we did need them.

We also motored way, way more than I have ever done. The wind is fickle here and the season is too short. We bought diesel at the commercial fishing docks for around $4 a gallon, but the intown places were closer to $6.

Groceries are 10-25% more than US. Still better selection and pricing than most of the Caribbean

Matt (currently wintering in the UK)

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Cthoops

.......


This has been the most surprising thing to me about cruising. Before we left I read about how you make friends everywhere you go and are gathering together every night for sundowners, beach parties, etc. That hasn’t proven to be the case and it’s disappointing. People seem to keep to themselves or buddy boat in a clique. Part of it is on us in that we prefer quieter anchorages, but it has not been the fast friendship experience we were led to believe. Not at all.

A64pilot, we’d be happy to share sundowners if we’re ever in the same anchorage!

The amount of social interaction among cruisers depends a lot on where you are cruising. In areas like the Bahamas and the eastern Carib you have many boats that have done the same area years and years in a row. These people do not have the new comers questions and tend to already know other boats that are like them, old hands to the area. We didn't see a lot of cruiser community that reached out to new comers till we hit Bonaire, where there were a lot of boats there for the first time doing passages to Panama for the first time.

Also, so much of the Bahamas and the eastern Carib is overrun with boats. When you are in areas where a typical anchorage only has a few boats, community builds quickly.

[contrail]

Having started cruising in the late 80's, when all communications were over the "party lines" of VHF, SSB and Ham radio, I think that fostered one big family and lots of "community". Now, communications are between just two stations, and there is much less "reading the mail", and much less community.

[boatman61]

Sailorboy..
Its not a question of can one cruise low budget.. its more a question of would you be prepared to make the sacrifices needed to do so.
Some can live with less than others are prepared to.. and that does not mean living on Ramens.
However a high maintenance boat is like a high maintenance wife.. Expensive..

[Mike OReilly]

It's sad to read about the declining social connections some people are finding in some areas. Seems consistent with what Ann, Jim and Robert have noticed over their longer history. This has not been my experience so far, but like I say, my cruising grounds have been fairly limited, and mostly semi-remote. There just aren't that many recreational boaters out our way. But even when I was in the Thousand Islands, which is certainly a very busy cruising area, I did not find it hard to socialize.

The whole counting your pennies thing is really just a difference of personality. Some of us need details, some are content with generalities. My spouse and I are like that; she needs to know where every buoy, shoal or rock is in the area. I'm content to know they aren't in front of us. Needless to say, we differ in our approach to navigation, and indeed to finance. She tracks every dollar, and knows how it's spent. I'm content to know we're still solvent.

Maintentance costs have been mentioned a few times. My experience, cruising with a well-found, but older boat, since 2014 is that we tend to face a significant repair or upgrade cost every year. We have a modest nest egg which we can dip into for these larger, one-off, costs. This is included in my total annual expenditure that I quoted earlier.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Mike- Norway can be pricey, but like you, I don't go out to eat. Unlike you, I don't drink much at all and then just cheap beer These are the two biggest expenses in Norway. Nothing else is a Low Cost Cruising budget buster. ...

Thanks for this Matt. I think I'd love to cruise Norway and area. I can give up drinking if that is required.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I know back when i was lower income I could tell you where my money did and had to go, because living depended on being able to do so.

You would be the exception to the rule then. Most low income people I know are in many ways low income because they aren't good at tracking and handling money. Money seems to flow to those who know how to handle it.

In cruising mode we run about $2500/month but we don't meet the strict criteria as we do a variety of travels.