Longer Cruising in Europe

[wolfgal]

i really do not know any US groups that would join forces with you

however, the way things are panning out in the present could be seen as shining light on what may come about concerning UK cruisers in the eu.

-the EU itself already has a north/south division line when it comes to who pays for who-to-be-bailed-out, and the frugal four are fed up with footing the bill already.

-countries like Spain, Portugal, Greece, and Italy, etc rely heavily on tourism and are not only used to catering to Brits, but, in today's world, probably cannot imagine the Dutch and the Germans and Austrians all wanting to fill their dining tables and drink their beer/wine as often and with such enthusiasm.

(actually, i'd watch to see if the EU does some inside coordinating to this effect... i.e., incite/facilitate the northern states to holiday in southern EU.)

-and most Brits can pay (and pay without haggling: it's cultural, and latins love it) as they tend to have a reliable pension or other income.

-and this view of Brits is presently being reinforced by how the prospects of the UK rising to its very tough economic challenge (post-brexit) are growing by the day, thanks to the vaccine-roll-out and imho the BBC.

yes, having a head-start on recovery could possibly incite the southern countries to push the EU to open doors to regain that business income. perhaps seek these groups out and align your case with theirs?

in any case, my fingers are crossed for Brits being able to cruise in the EU.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by dlane1181

To answer your question, I suggest Seven Seas Cruising Association (SSCA.org).

The ASA(American Sailing Association) MIGHT be of help. Maybe. There is another US sailing organization that might of interest but I can't remember their name at the moment. Hopefully, someone will chime in with the name.

Not sure they will be of much help but it is worth a try.

There was talk of the EU updating their regulations for yachts that seemed like it would move forward but then a pandemic hit...

Later,
Dan

[Lemsteraak]

We have had a US flagged sailboat in the EU for about 25 years now, long story. Back then the EU was just forming so when we came in they wouldn't stamp our passports so we would stay for six months and no one cared. I asked a French friend about this and he said it was because they wanted tourists and if we were a problem they could kick us out. Kind of a French wink-wink thing. Now it is really different, I never see US flags on any boats and we only spend 60 days at a time. There are big consequences for overstaying now.

We have thought about doing some extensive cruising in the future. This would require an extended visa. Each country has different requirements and fees so it is quite confusing. So, yes a special cruising visa would be great. I've noticed that cruisers tend to try not to draw attention to themselves. We don't fly our ensign as that would draw unwanted attention. England has their Cruising Association that could take up the cause. Maybe Seven Seas Cruising Assn here in the US might be able to put it on their agenda. Otherwise, the US State Dept through our representatives once this Global Pandemic is over.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Franziska

That's a funny thought. The UK left, partially because they thought the EU was nonsense, it was not the EU asking them to leave.
The UK did decided they did not want to participate anymore, so now they realise thar comes with consequences, such as that EU policies are decided without them.
So why should the EU continue to listen to complaints about a perceived bureaucracy and hubris in London. That's close to ridiculous.

If the UK would agree to play fully by the common rules in the future, the EU would perhaps even offer to revoke Brexit.
Scotland is surely welcome to re-enter if they want to.

Still, I am not at all against allowing longer cruising times for foreign yachts, if that is on a reciprocal base.
Maybe trade it for EU Vat renewal when entering UK overseas ports (even though that's highly unlikely to happen).

All this is only relevant for those who believe the EU will last long enough to make 3 to 5 years of lobbying worth the effort.
The Politicos like it for the Bunce Benefits but the people are growing increasingly disenchanted..

[SaltyMetals]

GoEasy, I am not The Bible on this. You need to contact the campaigners but as i understand it the situation is as follows:
The UK Cruising Association (www.theca.org.uk) is currently running a campaign for a simple 180 days in the EU. I suppose this, if successful, would apply to any non-EU residents. The UK already allows 180 days for non UK residents (including EU) and is simply lobbying that the EU should reciprocate as indeed most such international regs are based on reciprocity. Bear in mind that as far as the UK is concerned there are about 400,000 UK residents with "property" in the EU, be they houses or boats. I think the boating community only makes up 5-10% of this 400,000.
The CA has about 12,000 members spread all over the world. The Royal Yachting Association (RYA) has about 120,000, also spread all over the place.
The matter of VAT is another subject. The UK tax authority (HMRC) had said that any boat away from the UK for more than 3 yrs would have to pay UK VAT all over again, based on market value, if brought back to the UK. Boats away for less than 3 years had to return latest end 2021 to retain their VAT status but under lobbying pressure (the CA and RYA) this has now changed so that the 3yr limit has been eliminated and the deadline for return has been extended by 6 mths to end June 2022. The CA is saying that this is not enough and the deadline should be 3 years from 1 Jan 2021. If you are a CA member all the details are on their website. I do not think non-members can access these details. You could try the RYA but i think that the same access limits for members only applies.
We had a CA Zoom meeting 2 days ago (60 participants) which was discussing most of these problems. There are choices for an extended Visa or Residence. Spain is a problem because you (and your boat) get immediately taxed if you become Spanish resident. Others countries such as Italy, Greece, Crete, France are easier. As the regs apply at the moment, note that if you obtain an extended Visa or become Resident in one of the EU Schenghen countries this will solve the 90/180 day problem only in that particular country. You would still be subject to the 90/180 day limit in other Schenghen countries.
Meanwhile, Greece has stated that it no longer recognises boats as being VAT-paid if it was UK VAT being paid. This is actually contrary to EU regs and a formal challenge/complaint has been made to Brusells. For any of you who have UK Vat-paid boats in the EU the VAT-paid qualification continues to apply anywhere within the EU as long as your boat was located in the EU on 31 Dec 2020. Photos and a marina contract, endorsed by an official of the marina seems to be sufficient, (certainly for me with my boat in Italy) but some countries might expect the declaration to be notarised.

Yes, it is a mess! Created by the Brexiteers without considering the consequences.
Andrew

[SY Kelpie]

Originally Posted by boatman61

All this is only relevant for those who believe the EU will last long enough to make 3 to 5 years of lobbying worth the effort.
The Politicos like it for the Bunce Benefits but the people are growing increasingly disenchanted..

That's a bet I'm willing to make. The EU will still exist in five years time. I will happily stand you a beer on this one should we ever cross paths.

[Albinvega27]

Originally Posted by goeasy123

What would be the right N. American organizations to work with?

As European I would suggest you to look for a European Organization, since neither the US nor GB have figured out the EU lately. Brussels is going independant and maybe even a Chinese Organization in Europe will help you better, since the Chinese are very smart in their Business doing.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by SY Kelpie

That's a bet I'm willing to make. The EU will still exist in five years time. I will happily stand you a beer on this one should we ever cross paths.

As is.. or down from the existing 27..
Potential departures include Poland, Hungary, Nederlands, Slovakia, Italy, and Sweden is less happy these days.

[Albinvega27]

Originally Posted by boatman61

As is.. or down from the existing 27..
Potential departures include Poland, Hungary, Nederlands, Slovakia, Italy, and Sweden is less happy these days.

USA was told would go for civil war, if Biden takes Presidency. Hungary and Poland you bet on 2 jerks, who will in 10 years out of office. Sweden unhappy? Even England unhappy?
The British soldier for Brexit is leaving office and going into retirement and he knows wihy. The British youth (which are the Ones we should ask) are pissed. All their studies abroad, all their educational funding, is gone. All the jobs the British had in Europe are gone.

In Politics the situation is simple. You sit out the problem. To disolve the EU is like saying, USA will become Comunist. Will simply not happen. Ask whatever young European, if he is willing to be Spanish, or European. Or Italian or European, Or Greek or European. Who pays their bills? Angela Merkel and while Germany funds the EU, all the rest is happy. Because they will just get more and more money, while the Germans are happy to be called "Weltmeister". Simple as that! Forget all these dreams of "European Union will disolve!. Before that, all the Americans with guns will kill one another. They have bigger problems at home... live in denial

[boatman61]

I remember folks saying that about the UK...

Emmanuel Macron faces election crisis as poll shows French people turning ‘against Europe’
EMMANUEL MACRON is facing a huge Presidential election crisis as a new poll revealed the French public are rebelling against his attempted reforms and are turning "against Europe" as pressure mounts on the under-fire European Union figurehead.

[Franziska]

Well, if someone feels the need to depart, let them go, especially if they are not truly believing in the core concept of a united Europe.
Europe grew far to fast out of being to keen to scoop up former communist countries for the west.
If we have a consolidation phase next and western Europe remains for the most part this may even help.
I do not see the younger generation having a desire to quit. Not in France, not in Italy, not in Spain, Portugal, neither in Germany or Austria.

Originally Posted by boatman61

As is.. or down from the existing 27..
Potential departures include Poland, Hungary, Nederlands, Slovakia, Italy, and Sweden is less happy these days.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Well, if someone feels the need to depart, let them go, especially if they are not truly believing in the core concept of a united Europe.
Europe grew far to fast out of being to keen to scoop up former communist countries for the west.
If we have a consolidation phase next and western Europe remains for the most part this may even help.
I do not see the younger generation having a desire to quit. Not in France, not in Italy, not in Spain, Portugal, neither in Germany or Austria.

This I agree with..
The Empire Builders got to Gung Ho and tried to swallow the former Soviet Sattilites to quickly in a grab for power and influence after the Wall came down..
As for the young people.. they grew up in the system so don't know any better..
Spain and Portugal are still under the old dictatorship way of things but that is changing slowly.

[Albinvega27]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I remember folks saying that about the UK...

Emmanuel Macron faces election crisis as poll shows French people turning ‘against Europe’
EMMANUEL MACRON is facing a huge Presidential election crisis as a new poll revealed the French public are rebelling against his attempted reforms and are turning "against Europe" as pressure mounts on the under-fire European Union figurehead.

Have you actually worked in politics? The news you are getting about the image of a candidate or President and how to appreciate these polls is completely different for you versus a candidate. Politics is a game on long term strategy, not some "hulligully" you do between lunch and dinner. Look at it this way. How come DT has done all the sh..t he did and still, for the "popolo" he is in play. If you go in France to the people who actually manage the campaign funding, you will find Macron very comfortable. Same in Italy. Why do you think a popular elected man has gone from his job as PM and a man coming out of the European treasury goes into Italian PM? Do you think Draghi is there by some sort of "Iluminati"? Or Ursula von der Leyen came out of the German Government doing a lousy job as Defense Secretary and nevertheless, she gets the highest job of Europe? Ther must be Mister Magoo at work. Better review the way you look at politics and then do the analysis, but in the right way. uropean Government is not affraid. They will still be in play in 100 years, assisting the Chinese Government on how to collect the funds in bancrupt America. (Last comment is sarcasm)

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Albinvega27

Have you actually worked in politics? The news you are getting about the image of a candidate or President and how to appreciate these polls is completely different for you versus a candidate. Politics is a game on long term strategy, not some "hulligully" you do between lunch and dinner. Look at it this way. How come DT has done all the sh..t he did and still, for the "popolo" he is in play. If you go in France to the people who actually manage the campaign funding, you will find Macron very comfortable. Same in Italy. Why do you think a popular elected man has gone from his job as PM and a man coming out of the European treasury goes into Italian PM? Do you think Draghi is there by some sort of "Iluminati"? Or Ursula von der Leyen came out of the German Government doing a lousy job as Defense Secretary and nevertheless, she gets the highest job of Europe? Ther must be Mister Magoo at work. Better review the way you look at politics and then do the analysis, but in the right way. uropean Government is not affraid. They will still be in play in 100 years, assisting the Chinese Government on how to collect the funds in bancrupt America. (Last comment is sarcasm)

Von Der Leyen was shoo'ed into the job with a phoney election, nothing to do with merit, more probable due to a lack of any..
Draghi is a desperate attempt to stop Italy going the same way as Greece.. let's face it this is a country that has had 62 elections since WW2..
As for Macron.. contrary to the image put about by his campaign team that it was the result of a spontaneous surge of popular support, the funds were primarily sourced from a powerful network of bankers, financiers and businessmen.
But be honest, the EU has nothing to do with politics, just puppets following the central dictat..
That's why the UK is still learning how to walk again, 47yrs of just doing as one is told has led to a dearth of ingenuity and adventurism on the benches of Westminster but that will change as the gummy teat suckers in the Lord's die off and the new breed like Claire Fox, Kate Hoey, Ruth Davidson and others gain control.
But hey.. you believe what you want..

[Albinvega27]

Boatman61, what generation are you? If you are the same generation as I am, then you consider yourself your nationality, as I do. But if you ask among the youngsters - and they are definitely the future of Europe - they do consider themselves as European. Not as German, not as French, not as British, but European. You say from UvdL exactly what I said. Of course she was slippered onto that job, same as Draghi. Only the motives of my analysis are different to yours.
Here is the thing! In Psychology it is perfectly understood, that you run your thoughts into corner. You want to believe the construct you have been building up. No matter if reality, no matter if you cheat on yourself. The thought satnds and you will hold up on it. This maybe fine, even do you can be completely mistaken. It´s called "human error". In my case? I don´t assure, that my thinking is right. It is possible to be completely mistaken. But you laugh at Italians 62 Government since WW II. In the same way I can show you Ecuadorian Government since independance some 200 years ago and they still had more than 200 Governments in these 200 years. That does not mean they have come to a crash end of the country. Fact N° 1 is fatalism. Even do we think that something is fatal and HAS to end, it doesn´t has to. That´s human error, to thinkg that something ends. May the people change, may the thinking changes, but the thing goes on. In the same way every day the EU is changing. She is never the same as the day before, while you think, things have to end abruptly. That´s not the way it has to be. More likely, the people who drive the EU know exactly, if they leave things to democracy, it will end. So, there is a team of professionally self elected people, who drive the idea od United Europe and they are cheating and manipulating the things through their processes, laws, regulations etc. untill one day, Europe will be ready for democracy. Then, they will hand over. In the meantime? They do their job whether you like it or not. It´s called a project and it was Britains Premier Winston Churchill, who fathered the idea and it is now Lafarge, who killed it for England. For how long? We haven´t even had 1 year England out and working. But look how Johnson is struggling. Maybe the British ar as hestoic as they were under Churchill during WW II and stay to their vote, or maybe they end Johnsons Era and start a new One, reinserting GB again into the EU. Let´s see what happens when Scottish and Irish leave with Europe. That is almost for sure a fact!