Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-07-2018, 17:49   #106
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Between Caribbean and Canada
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 6,814
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

ALSO, the new federal DL standards and motor voter laws tie your voting elegibility to your DL. Where ever you get your DL is your state for voting. Can you even get a DL without some address? I suspect not.

Also the Feds require states to confirm citizenship but the federal courts have said its illegal to ask for PROOF of citizenship. So, they can ask if you are a citizen, they can not ask for proof. But if you get caught voting then you can go to jail.

This may or may not be changing as the new DL standards come into play, I’ve lost track.
hpeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 18:27   #107
Registered User
 
sailpower's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 923
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
I actually Live on a boat! Why does the boat have to sit in one place so I can vote?

I don't think you have to stay in one place.

The Clay County law was posted.

Other entities will have their laws.

I am talking about the ramifications of complying or not complying with the law as written not how we wish it was written. That is the reality that matters.

In your case you seem to be covered.

Good luck.
sailpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 18:50   #108
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,304
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailpower View Post
I am not going to undo my ad blocker to click on your link
Then just google

National Popular Vote interstate compact

The current system - state-based, winner-take-all - laws that the National Popular Vote bill will replace are not "the Founders' system," were never debated at the Constitutional Convention and never mentioned in "The Federalist Papers."

In fact, a majority of states did not have such laws until the eleventh presidential election, generations after the Founding Fathers were dead.

Second, the idea that the current system is designed to protect small states is just plain silly. It is not. In fact, the five smallest states have not received a general election campaign event in more than 20 years. Small-state interests routinely get ignored under the current system, in favor of the parochial interests of a few battleground states. It is obvious that a lack of small-state influence is a shortcoming of the system.*National Popular Vote, when it takes effect, will ensure that a voter in Bismarck, North Dakota, for example, is as relevant as a voter in Boca Raton, Florida.

Third, California will represent only 12 percent of the voting population in a vote for president. Even in the worst years, Republicans earn four out of every 10 votes in California - without running earnest campaigns there. So the math discredits the argument that California will control presidential elections. It is a red herring, at best.
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 18:57   #109
Registered User
 
sailpower's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 923
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Then just google

National Popular Vote interstate compact

The current system - state-based, winner-take-all - laws that the National Popular Vote bill will replace are not "the Founders' system," were never debated at the Constitutional Convention and never mentioned in "The Federalist Papers."

In fact, a majority of states did not have such laws until the eleventh presidential election, generations after the Founding Fathers were dead.

Second, the idea that the current system is designed to protect small states is just plain silly. It is not. In fact, the five smallest states have not received a general election campaign event in more than 20 years. Small-state interests routinely get ignored under the current system, in favor of the parochial interests of a few battleground states. It is obvious that a lack of small-state influence is a shortcoming of the system.*National Popular Vote, when it takes effect, will ensure that a voter in Bismarck, North Dakota, for example, is as relevant as a voter in Boca Raton, Florida.

Third, California will represent only 12 percent of the voting population in a vote for president. Even in the worst years, Republicans earn four out of every 10 votes in California - without running earnest campaigns there. So the math discredits the argument that California will control presidential elections. It is a red herring, at best.

If it doesn't make a difference then there is no reason to change it.

The system was fine until your candidate lost.

But look, you live in a fantasy world so I have no intention of going down your emotional rabbit holes.
sailpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 18:59   #110
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,465
Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailpower View Post
Where you actually live?


On the boat, and it moves, so I donít actually have a physical address.
Actually the federal government is aware of SBI, if you try to register your aircraft using that address, they come back and say itís a commercial address, you canít use it, you have to have a physical address. It can be your mailing address, but they need a physical address for you, no other option exists.
So I used 1 Clay Street, which is what my voter registration card has as an address.
I didnít make any of this up, that was the address assigned to me by the voting registration office in Clay Co, a government agency.
So should I use Great Aunt Maryís address, where I have never lived and certainly never intend to live? Isnít that more fraudulent than using the address assigned to you by a Government agency?
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 19:02   #111
Registered User
 
sailpower's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 923
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
On the boat, and it moves, so I donít actually have a physical address.
Actually the federal government is aware of SBI, if you try to register your aircraft using that address, they come back and say itís a commercial address, you canít use it, you have to have a physical address. It can be your mailing address, but they need a physical address for you, no other option exists.
So I used 1 Clay Street, which is what my voter registration card has as an address.
I didnít make any of this up, that was the address assigned to me by the voting registration office in Clay Co, a government agency.
So should I use Great Aunt Maryís address, where I have never lived and certainly never intend to live? Isnít that more fraudulent than using the address assigned to you by a Government agency?

What is 1 Clay Street?
sailpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 19:31   #112
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,304
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Both are equally untrue.

If they want to be able to knock on an actual door to ask about your whereabouts, where would you rather send them?
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 19:32   #113
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Caribbean live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 5,148
Images: 84
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

I don't care who is dog catcher but the current system prevents us from voting anywhere. we retired, sold our home, moved aboard and sailed to the Caribbean. our daughter handles mail and bills. with no residence, we are disenfranchised. we no longer have any say in which despot crook is elected.
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 19:49   #114
Registered User
 
Island Time O25's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,683
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Since expat numbers are 5-7 mil i.e roughly 2% of the population and greater then populations of many states (actual # is classified, I kid you not) why not pass a Constitutional Amendment creating add'l reps/senators in Congress? This way a dog catcher in Clay county won't have to worry about outside agitators. And expats will have a national voice w/o going through the legal hoops and fictions to vote.
Island Time O25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 20:13   #115
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 8,545
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
I don't care who is dog catcher but the current system prevents us from voting anywhere. we retired, sold our home, moved aboard and sailed to the Caribbean. our daughter handles mail and bills. with no residence, we are disenfranchised. we no longer have any say in which despot crook is elected.
As noted in post #103 you can vote in Federal elections as an expat
https://www.justice.gov/crt/uniforme...tee-voting-act
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 20:26   #116
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,465
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailpower View Post
What is 1 Clay Street?


It is apparently the address that all SBI people registered to vote live at for their records anyway. I have no idea why itís not 411 Walnut Street, which is the mailing address for SBI.
Among other things I assume they do that so that your not called for jury duty, and Iím sure they have other reasons, what they are, I donít know. They came up with it , the voting registration office.
See I feel sure all this was done to establish residency, not so much for voting, registering to vote, receiving mail, registering an automobile, getting a drivers license, all these things help and or establish residency. I have done all these things to include registering the Boat and an airplane.
I bank with USAA like a whole lot of Retired Military, and nothing ties me to any other address other than SBI.
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2018, 07:27   #117
Registered User
 
sailpower's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 923
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
It is apparently the address that all SBI people registered to vote live at for their records anyway. I have no idea why it’s not 411 Walnut Street, which is the mailing address for SBI.
Among other things I assume they do that so that your not called for jury duty, and I’m sure they have other reasons, what they are, I don’t know. They came up with it , the voting registration office.
See I feel sure all this was done to establish residency, not so much for voting, registering to vote, receiving mail, registering an automobile, getting a drivers license, all these things help and or establish residency. I have done all these things to include registering the Boat and an airplane.
I bank with USAA like a whole lot of Retired Military, and nothing ties me to any other address other than SBI.

Your Avatar shows that you are in GA.

Where do you store the plane?

I am not criticizing what you are saying, just trying to understand the situation that you have presented.
sailpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2018, 08:15   #118
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,913
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Iím a citizen, I get a say! Not my fault really that I had to become a resident of a ďplaceĒ to do it. If gcs doesnít like it they need to take it up with their Federal Representations and Senators who of course will make it their mission to get the rest of the House and Senate to write a bill and get approved to change the system.
As a citizen of the USA, you get a say by voting in the community where you reside.

You are not a citizen of GCS (based on your prior post), so no, you don't get a say in GCS.

They have the resident thing figured out, you just have to go back and vote in the jurisdiction of your residence.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2018, 08:26   #119
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,913
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
I guess you haven't heard of the National Popular Vote interstate compact.

As soon as it is passed in enough states possessing 270 electoral votes, the Electoral College becomes immediately irrelevant, no constitutional amendment required.

And good riddance too, since they failed to do the job the were supposed to in 2016.

Under the compact, the winner would be the candidate who receives the most popular votes on election day, every citizen from every state's vote becomes equally important.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...er-to-reality/
The electoral college operated exactly how it was supposed to in 2016. It wasn't a mistake by the founding fathers but very much intentional. They specifically did not want mob rule and states agreed to be part of the country based on a system where the large states couldn't steamroll the smaller states. This would squash that fundamental principal.

It also disenfranchises voters from states who voted against the potential winner of this system. They may have gotten the majority in their state but they still lose.

If this plan ever did get the numbers required, I would expect it to be quickly struck down as unconstitutional.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2018, 08:32   #120
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,913
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Different issue, Iím not here illegally, and calling them a more politically acceptable name doesnít change the fact they are.
I own some furniture and other belongings in storage in Ga. I sold the house and land.
I do no work in any other State and will of course pay taxes on my income if due to my State of residence.
Now I donít want to vote on the dog catcher or mayor or local cop or whatever, however itís a slippery slope when you start deciding on who can and who canít vote.
My belief is the reason when the country was founded that you had to be a property owner, was that is who paid taxes, and their idea, not mine was only taxpayers should determine how the taxes were spent.
However has now become that all you have to have is be of age and have a warm body, and I guess not be a convicted felon, if you meet those requirements you have the right to vote.

Voting is not really the issue here, establishing residency is. I give a darn whether Iím a resident of anywhere or not, however my Federal Government requires me to be a resident of somewhere in order for me to own an airplane, exercise my privileges as a mechanic, pilot and inspector, have a bank account etc.
Itís not my idea, it is theirs. Iíd just as soon not bother. It cost me $300 per automobile for ďnew car on the roadĒ fees to register them in Fl.

So all you experts, where is someone like me or traveling nurses, or other retirees supposed to claim as a residence?
Some say well use a family members address or friend, but how is that any different at all than using a mail forwarding agency like SBI? You donít live there either, and donít intend to either. I spend more time in Fl than any other State, and if I retire Stateside, it will likely be in Fl, and why not Green Cove Springs? It ticks a lot of boxes for me, pretty rural, close to a large city, close to a military base.

It seems to me that the ones who object, do so on the basis of well I donít get to, they shouldnít either.

Well, you do get to, if you decide to, just donít cry about us that have.
Voting is the issue here (see the title of the thread). It's perfectly legal and acceptable to utilize a mail forwarding service...to forward your mail. It's also legal to register a car in a state separate from your residence (though you may still have tax implications in your home state).

Using a friends or families address may work functionally (as it's near impossible for the authorities to catch on) but it doesn't meet the rule.

Based on your post, I believe you lived in a permanent location in GA prior to moving onto the boat. Therefore if you haven't established residency in FL, you are still officially a resident of your GA community and would vote there per the law.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
liveaboard

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GPS System Threatened jrd22 Navigation 7 07-03-2010 16:32
Clay Pot Heater? Marauder Off Topic Forum 19 27-03-2007 19:44
Rights? What rights..... swagman General Sailing Forum 7 12-10-2005 10:27

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:05.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.