Liveaboard pricing help in Halifax NS

[Morgan1]

I've posted a pricing sheet for a local yacht club below that apparently facilitates liveaboards and i was wondering if someone could help me make more sense of it, i thought i'd ask around here for some general questions before i call their office and make a minor fool of myself.

My first question is are these marina fees normally a one time fee for the season or are they monthly/periodical? lets say if i had a boat that was between 26-28 feet (i am a minimalist and need very little space) for a 27 foot boat the marina price would be 827$ based on that sheet, that would cover the entire (May 15 –Oct 31) right? then i assume i would pay the winter storage rate during the off season?

If anyone can help me get a general sense of pricing to start out as a liveabord based on this information i would really appreciate it. I've emailed their website admin too but i feel like the people here would be able to provide some valuable insight as well.

http://www.armdaleyachtclub.ns.ca/wp...edule-M-NM.pdf

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Morgan.

[GRIT]

Congrats on considering the liveaboard lifestyle.

Yachtclub fees are seasonal, so that price is for the season. With Armdale, there's an "initiation" fee, which I see is now $1000. There also appears to be some sort of sailing association fee, and a $200 Capital fund contribution? Really?
And lastly, Food and beverage credit. $300. That means they want you to "pre-spend" $300 at their restaurant, forced consumption.

Armdale is known to be a club which will try to "fee" you to death. It's a shame, since it's location is fantastic for liveaboards.

Be sure you have them sign something saying that your fees are "paid in full" for the season.

I've stayed there as a transient, and friends have stayed the winter on the docks there. The members are friendly enough, the location is great and the facilities are good.

Cheers.
Paul.

[GRIT]

I looked into becoming a member at the Armdale Yacht Club about 20 years ago, (my, how time goes by...) but the idea of an initiation fee, and the others, really get my goat. So we went cruising instead.

The management at that club is always complaining that they can't get any "new blood" in the club. (Right up to last fall, when I last visited friends there.)

I'll stop here.. I feel a diatribe coming on.

Cheers.
Paul.

[Classicsailboat]

I have been a member most of my adult life, the staff will try to accommodate your requirements, don't hesitate to call them, the manager, Leanna, is very friendly and helpful.

[S/V Alchemy]

If it's any consolation, YCs typically charge both initiation and "dock rights" or some equally extorted loan to cover their capital investment in expensive dockage and electrical services, both of which suffer the ravages of sea and time and must be nearly constantly rebuilt.

Some places will waive the initiation if they are hungry for members. When I joined my YC in Toronto in 1999, I had the initiation waived and got the first year's winter storage (out of the water, which can harden up a bit here) for free. I had to pay a "dock equity loan" to the club of $4,500, however, which is payable back to me at 90% of that figure (so it's like a bad investment!) when I officially leave the club. I also have to spend $45/month because we have a restaurant. On the upside, the restaurant is rented out to outside events, and generally makes money. If it didn't, there would be trouble!

As I said, every club operates differently, but the need for capital investment and cash flow dictates the nature of the fee structure. If you find it unfair or baffling, there's an easy fix: Find a marina that allows liveaboards. The fee structure is far more transparent and you don't have to deal with clubbiness at all, as they usually have the character and cameraderie of the parking lots for boats they usually are.

[Ardbeg]

Morgan, there is a difference between marina and yacht club. Usually the yacht clubs have add on fees. Marinas usually charge you $x per foot per season and maybe an electricity charge. That is usually it. Also be careful as you might be restricted about launch and haul dates if they do not have their own travel lift and need to hire a crane. That can be very frustrating. I seem to remember a club just down the coast at Le Havre that was much more reasonable? You do not say if you need to be in Halifax.

https://marinas.com/view/marina/9496...ater_NS_Canada

[Morgan1]

First of all thanks everyone for the thoughtful replies, you've all given me a lot to think about.

sorry for not clarifying previously, i work on the Halifax peninsula so a marina/dock in the HRM that is along a bus route is required for me.
As i intend to liveaboard year round i dont mind paying slightly more for the convenience and utilities that a club would be able to offer compared to an open marina, maybe once i have some experience living aboard i could consider making that switch but i think i'll start off easy

I'll do a breakdown summary of what i would expect to pay from this chart for my first year:

1000$ entrance fee
30$ sail Canada due (whatever)
200$ capital fund contribution (whatever)
800-1000$ Marina (seasonal)
190$ electricity for summer, 30 amps (estimated usage)
84$ +? (lets round to 300$ to play it safe) electricity for winter

(SIDE QUESTION, i understand that the marina fee is seasonal but what happens during the winter? assuming that i just want to live on board and not haul and store for the winter, would i just pay for the electricity? do they normally keep their docks out for the winter? and if so, are they free to use?)

All these fee's come out to 2700$ with high estimates used, assuming that i need to annually haul out for cleaning and other unexpected expenses lets just round to 3k annually.

I currently pay 6600 a year for rent and utilities (550 a month, this is ONLY rent and utilities relating to an apartment, not total living expenses)

so based on this price analysis my living expenses would be more then cut in half correct? i understand that doing repairs on my boat will also have a cost as well, but even if that is 1k a year it seems like i will still save at least 2000-2600 a year

If anyone can think of some more cost variables to be factored in that would be really helpful. thanks again!

[Classicsailboat]

Insurance will be about $500

[Morgan1]

Is sailboat insurance a legal requirement? sorry i still know very little about yachting in general.

I also forgot the 300 food credit fee.

[Classicsailboat]

Insurance is required by the club, it could be more for living aboard, and a marine survey is required to get the insurance, $10 per ft.

[Morgan1]

okay so i could expect to pay around 300$ for a marine survey and 500$ for insurance, so 800$ more total then. I'm assuming the 500$ would be annual?

since you are a member of the club already i was wondering what you typically pay per month averaged out? just for live aboard related expenses not food and extras.

I dont mind paying up to the 6600 amount i currently pay on land (although im hoping it will be closer to 5k) i'm mostly doing this for the lifestyle change and not to really save money so the logistics aspect is important

[Classicsailboat]

Don't have my annual cost at hand, also depends on size of boat. Insurance is annual. You will need to build some kind of shelter for the winter to protect the boat and to make it more comfortable, shrink wrap will cost another $15 per foot.

[Morgan1]

Ok so i will re-tally the annual cost estimate i currently have, lets base this off a 27 foot boat:

1000$ entrance fee (ONE TIME ONLY, 450 ANNUALLY)
270$ marine survey (ONE TIME ONLY)
500$ estimated annual insurance (as per Classicsailboat)
30$ sail Canada due
200$ capital fund contribution
1000$ Marina (seasonal)
190$ electricity for summer, 30 amps (estimated usage)
84$ +? (lets round to 300$ to play it safe) electricity for winter
300$ food credit
405$ for shrink wrap (27 foot boat)

Based off these estimates my total base cost would be 4195$ for the first year *lets round to 4200

now this doesn't include any maintenance fee's or repair related fee's, (or winter marina fees if those even exist) but this still comes out 2400 a year cheaper then my current renting situation before those repair fees come in, assuming cleaning and repair totals 1000$ extra a year i'm still ahead 1400 in the first year, as the entrance fee and survey are initial fees only i will also be saving another 850$ every subsequent year as well

Is there any other obvious flaw or related expense i've left out? you've already been extremely helpful.

(PS i'm basing my fee's off being 25 years old when i actually do this, im currently 24 but i'll turn 25 during the summer and i dont think ill get this all set up in time so ill have to pay the entrance fee)

[Classicsailboat]

There is a winter storage fee, it is on that sheet you posted. and your winter electrical usage will be very high, the club can help you with this. I'm not certain the club still allows liveaboards, they obviously will advise you of this.