Liveaboard Fees - again

[WindwardPrinces]

The only thing worse than a marina charging liveaboard fees is when they charge really high seasonal rates, and you can't find a slip or a mooring ball when you need one, because there is absolutely nothing available, your motor isn't running, and there is weather coming in.


Those are times that try men's souls.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Exactly, a 40 ft slip costs the same, whether you are a 20ft boat, or a 39.9ft boat.

There are marinas that charge a flat fee based on boat length, but the charge by the foot is blatent, we charge you more, because you can afford it.

I'm good with all that, the thing that gets MY goat is how classified marina rates are.

There are marinas that charge $200 a month for a 35ft boat, there are marinas that charge $2000 a month.

Very few publish rates, most say call for price, 200-400 a month I can afford, two grand is out of the question.

So I call dozens of marinas, waiting on hold for half an hour, while the receptionist calls the ONE guy authorized to give quotes, taking weeks to find a decent marina I can afford.

Charging by foot length of boat is pretty much standard way to charge slip fees in marinas. never once been to a marina that said... you want a 40' finger, you pay X rate regardless of boat length. Charging by length is more equitable than flat rate for the length of the finger. you pay for the space you take up (same for storage)

[Happ]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

Some states, such as California, are trying to discourage liveaboards. The fees are one way for the marina to limit the full-timers and make a bit extra. The state typically gets more revenue from homeowners than from liveaboard boaters.

I lived in California for 28 years as a liveaboard, a renter and a home owner. To think the state is seriously looking at the number of liveaboards versus people buying homes or renting is laughable. You obviously don't know about Chapter 13. This limits property taxes to a maximum 2% increase a year! Rents are ridiculously high because no one sell their property!

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by Happ

You obviously don't know about Chapter 13. This limits property taxes to a maximum 2% increase a year! Rents are ridiculously high because no one sell their property!

The law of unintended consequences.

Also why we sometimes find out that Congressmen have multiple rent-controlled apartments.

Most government solutions break something else.

[multi-hulls]

$150 liveaboard fee? I would say thank you and feel blessed...lucky if you can find anyone in Souther California to even consider renting you a liveaboard slip.

[Mike OReilly]

It’s interesting how profit maximization is seen as a positive thing by most people in our market economies, yet when it is applied to us personally, some suddenly find they are not so impressed with free market capitalism. Prices in a market economy are only loosely based on input costs. Supply and demand are mostly what drives prices. In other words, they charge what they can.

It’s not moral, it’s not ethical, and it’s certainly not fair. It’s the consequence of a free market in action. As Canadian troubadour Bruce Cockburn wrote in "You've Never Seen Everything”:

The market has no brain
It doesn't love, it's not God
All it knows is the price of lunch

BTW, many jurisdictions do have laws regarding price gouging. Mostly these apply during civil emergencies where supply chains are critical disrupted and needs are great.

I do agree with the OP — it’s not fair, but I’d say the same about the price of an iPhone, or food, or housing, or… If fairness is what you demand, then you gotta move to Utopia.

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It’s interesting how profit maximization is seen as a positive thing by most people in our market economies, yet when it is applied to us personally, some suddenly find they are not so impressed with free market capitalism. Prices in a market economy are only loosely based on input costs. Supply and demand are mostly what drives prices. In other words, they charge what they can.

It’s not moral, it’s not ethical, and it’s certainly not fair. It’s the consequence of a free market in action. As Canadian troubadour Bruce Cockburn wrote in "You've Never Seen Everything”:

In what way is the free market not fair? It's proven time and time again to be the most efficient.

If the price of something gets lucrative, lo and behold, some competition is a LOT more likely to pop up.

What isn't fair is when the government steps in to "fix" it, regulates the prices, and manufacturers either go out of business, stop producing that good, or it becomes unattainable.

Which is more fair, to limit anchoring to municipal mooring fields, or to let marinas charge whatever the market will bear, and you can anchor wherever you want?

Florida does have "price gouging laws", but that has nothing to do with charging a fee for liveaboards.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Texas....I see you’re in California, the state where everything is expensive.

It's also the place where you make a lot of money! I know I lived there for 28 years!

[Neale]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

the better seats have value

what does this have to do with anything in post 1 other than "they can"

"They can" is what it is all about. They can charge more for front row seats because people will pay more. Also they can charge a $150 live aboard fee for the same reason.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces

In what way is the free market not fair? It's proven time and time again to be the most efficient..

I’ve rarely seen “efficiency” as part of any definition of fairness. I could easily say fairness means something like, to each according to his/her need. But as I alluded to, most efforts along this line lead to Utopia

Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces

What isn't fair is when the government steps in to "fix" it, regulates the prices, and manufacturers either go out of business, stop producing that good, or it becomes unattainable..

There is no such thing as a truly free market — at least not one that functions for long. Government intervention is deeply embedded in all functioning markets and market economies.

[The KGB]

RedNeckRob answered your concern! They charge a fee because 'they can'

[davenrino]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Charging by foot length of boat is pretty much standard way to charge slip fees in marinas. never once been to a marina that said... you want a 40' finger, you pay X rate regardless of boat length. Charging by length is more equitable than flat rate for the length of the finger. you pay for the space you take up (same for storage)

I guess you have never been to our marina. We pay the GREATER of flat rate or flat rate + $12/ea additional ft. We have 30, 40 & 50 ft fingers and the flat rate is 12 x that length, but if you have a 15' boat in a 50' slip because that is all that is available you still pay $600/month. I have a 32' LOA in a 30' slip so I pay the flat rate + $24/mo. It is an additional $12/ft to liveaboard (more than 3 days/wk).

[sanibel sailor]

Typically the "insurance says so" answer is BS. Just an good excuse that precludes further argument. Insurance companies usually do not regulate business practices to a significant extent.

[Carl-T705]

Maybe the marina just enjoys meeting new people and after a month of saying "Good Morning" to you they get a little bored and want you out and a new face in. Or they just are trying to avoid the homestead laws... Or maybe they want less dock clutter ... It's $150 extra for a whole month, that's 3 nights at an RV park rate.. or 3 nights at Motel Six, or a couple bottles of Crown Royal. Sounds pretty insignificant for a cruiser enjoying the good life.

[SailingPNW]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

Typically the "insurance says so" answer is BS. Just an good excuse that precludes further argument. Insurance companies usually do not regulate business practices to a significant extent.

When was the last time you paid for corporate insurance on a major business like a Marina? They do ask all kinds of questions like that, and yes it does matter whether they have live aboard and what percentage they allow.

Even getting personal liability insurance for your boat can be challenging for a liveaboard as many insurance companies won't insure boats where people are liveaboards, I know I had to call several companies, and if your policy restricts it they can deny any claim if it comes to light, if they find you have violated the clause. Ignorance of the policy will not matter.