Liveaboard Fees - again

[Dehler 25]

Although it is not specific to liveaboards, the concept of renting slips based on boat length is equally odd. If I park a 30 ft boat in a slip it is the only occupant even if there is 10 ft of empty space. They may not rent the remaining area to an 8ft dingy. It seems that beam is the biggest determining factor with the odd exception where is slip is unusually short. Then again they get to do just that.

[john61ct]

The prices a business charges do not need to correspond to underlying costs in **any** way.

The rationale behind them does not need to be transparent to the customer, much less "rational", in fact the business model may very often seem crazy these days.

Bottom line is, if **you** can't afford the rent at a given location, you need to move to where you can.

The way the market is going these days, be very grateful for every marina that allows any liveaboards at all, the trend is for them to be eliminated in areas where real estate values have been rising.

Ranting helps nothing except maybe giving you a bit of psychological relief.

[john61ct]

Of course if management answers to any government landlord or regulatory body, sometimes populist pressure may be brought to bear,

but don't expect much SJW support outside the boating community. . .

[captlloyd]

[QUOTE=DEAN2140;2914940]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I thought it would be a worthwhile discussion but see it's not and instead is going to be a bunch of "it's like" example that don't make sense. It appears the answer is just "because".[/QUOTE

It is a worthwhile discussion. You are fixated with the idea that all fees should be based on some cost + formula and the readers responses are that the price you pay for your berth (and everything else) is based on the market. If you don't think that is worthwhile information, you are just not paying attention.

Exactly, as has been previously stated there are additional expenses to the marina. Electricity, trash, water, some of which could lead to additional marina labor costs. Sure, maybe you’re not causing those costs in your situation, but the guy three docks down is and more. It’s a math thing and if you’re a good businessman your average ($150) is going to have you come out on top. There is a difference between seeking information and building a case.

[OS2Dude]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The ratty boat in the marina is a different issue than a liveaboard boat imo. The ratty boat problem is not resolved at all by having a "liveaboard fee".

Partially true. A fee discourages some or drives some away. My guess is they feel the ones who can't afford a fee are more likely to be the ones who junk up their boats.

I wish they would have a 'derelict' fee. Two boats on our dock, one on the dock behind me are falling apart. Canvas rotted, lines parted, covered in mold and lichen. But for whatever reason these boat owners still pay their slip fees, so they can't/won't kick them out. I wish they could at least segregate them to one end of the marina but they can't move them without owners permission.

[letsgetsailing3]

$150 a month for showers, trash, additional water, additional electricity to run an air conditioner, toilets for two people?


What's that, $2.50 a day, each?


What's the complaint, exactly?

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by OS2Dude

Partially true. A fee discourages some or drives some away. My guess is they feel the ones who can't afford a fee are more likely to be the ones who junk up their boats.

I wish they would have a 'derelict' fee. Two boats on our dock, one on the dock behind me are falling apart. Canvas rotted, lines parted, covered in mold and lichen. But for whatever reason these boat owners still pay their slip fees, so they can't/won't kick them out. I wish they could at least segregate them to one end of the marina but they can't move them without owners permission.

So your complaint is that those boats aren't attractive?

[sailorboy1]

[QUOTE=redhead;2914937

Well it all came down to one of the commissioners had some rude words from a liveaboard as he walked to his boat and consequently, we are all slime.
[/QUOTE]

That wouldn't seem to be an issue with being in a private marina and in a location where the Town hasn't passed some tax law about liveaboard.

And for a lot of you (you know who you because I bet you are somehow proud of yourself with some misplaced belief of higher morally):

I can't believe how freakin mean and nasty you are being on a simple question. It is also apparent you can't even read the story and conditions posted and prefer to just make up your own supporting back story. I wonder how many of you are being little petty jealous babies because someone else is cruising around on a boat, but you can't/wouldn't.

[john61ct]

Those marinas in a location / market that are able to enforce a "beautiful and expensive boats only" policy will increasingly do so.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

$150 a month for showers, trash, additional water, additional electricity to run an air conditioner, toilets for two people?


What's that, $2.50 a day, each?


What's the complaint, exactly?

For your wise comparison it's $2.50/day for 50 gal/mo of water. For the math challenged that's $3/gal

[redhead]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

$150 a month for showers, trash, additional water, additional electricity to run an air conditioner, toilets for two people?


What's that, $2.50 a day, each?


What's the complaint, exactly?

Not a complaint exactly. I will vote with my boat when the time comes.
Right now we pay just under $900 a month. We take showers on the boat. We do have trash, as do the more sporadic users of their boats - and since not every day is a party for us I think it about evens out, air conditioning is not an issue for us, we're not in the south- and we have 2 composting heads.

I guess my argument against is that most of us bring added value to our docks. I can and have called security if I see a person checking boats out that I know doesn't belong here. Thefts are down from 5 years ago. A boat was sinking at the dock and one of us called the security guard who came flying over with pumps and a catastrophe was avoided.

We know the issue will come up again and again - all the trends point in that direction. I may have to come to terms with it, but I don't have to like it.

[Davy J]

Here is one possible explanation. About five years ago, I was in a marina that had about ten or fifteen liveaboards. I didn't live aboard there, however, one month the marina notified the "liveaboards" that they were not going to be able to continue offering "liveaboard" slips.

Their "reason" was that their insurance company was going to be increasing their rates because of the liveaboards and that the insurance company wanted them to install "pump-outs" at every slip. Apparently, it was easier to remove the liveaboards than comply with the insurance company regulations.

Don't know how much of that is accurate, but insurance companies do seem to be able to dictate how businesses run their business..........

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by redhead

Not a complaint exactly. I will vote with my boat when the time comes.
Right now we pay just under $900 a month. We take showers on the boat. We do have trash, as do the more sporadic users of their boats - and since not every day is a party for us I think it about evens out, air conditioning is not an issue for us, we're not in the south- and we have 2 composting heads.

I guess my argument against is that most of us bring added value to our docks. I can and have called security if I see a person checking boats out that I know doesn't belong here. Thefts are down from 5 years ago. A boat was sinking at the dock and one of us called the security guard who came flying over with pumps and a catastrophe was avoided.

We know the issue will come up again and again - all the trends point in that direction. I may have to come to terms with it, but I don't have to like it.

If you take showers on the boat, the water is still coming from the marina, no?

I don't doubt that liveaboards help out with security, but they probably do consume electricity, water, etc.

You didn't say what the liveaboard premium was over just having a slip, or did you?

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

That wouldn't seem to be an issue with being in a private marina and in a location where the Town hasn't passed some tax law about liveaboard.

And for a lot of you (you know who you because I bet you are somehow proud of yourself with some misplaced belief of higher morally):

I can't believe how freakin mean and nasty you are being on a simple question. It is also apparent you can't even read the story and conditions posted and prefer to just make up your own supporting back story. I wonder how many of you are being little petty jealous babies because someone else is cruising around on a boat, but you can't/wouldn't.

Well as someone once said, “ Don’t ask if you can’t handle it”.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

For your wise comparison it's $2.50/day for 50 gal/mo of water. For the math challenged that's $3/gal

I don't doubt that you and your wife are efficient, but the average American shower is 17 gallons (8 minutes at 2.1 gallons a minute). You probably also flush the toilet, no? And you probably use some water for coffee, and to boil pasta, no?

So I'm guessing you use more than 50 gallons a month when at a marina.

Your air conditioner probably uses electricity, no?

Do an honest calculation, and get back to me on your math lesson. Yes, your number needs to be more realistic if you want us to take you seriously.


Edit: For the record, I'm all in favor of liveaboards, but if we are to discuss it, we should have an honest conversation about it. To me, $150 doesnt' sound that unreasonable.