Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-08-2019, 05:46   #181
S/V rubber ducky
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bahamas cruising currently
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 17,664
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happ View Post
I’m curious if they have laundry or shower facilities. If they do do you use them?
Been here 3 weeks, have used the shower once and the coin operated laundry twice.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2019, 05:53   #182
S/V rubber ducky
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bahamas cruising currently
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 17,664
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
It's a steal compared to land living and all the utilities to pay there.
Is it really??????????????????

I own a 3 nice bedroom house in Jacksonville Fl that I rent out to my daughter form $500/mo and it costs about $150 for electric and water for the month. So that's $650/mo.

I really haven't found boat living to be less than land living. If anything the last 3 years I think it has been more to live on a boat. My house was pay off and the utilities and association fee were around $350/mo and it didn't need $500 in maintenance and repair each month.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2019, 05:55   #183
S/V rubber ducky
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bahamas cruising currently
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 17,664
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

BTW - there's "free" wifi here in the marina and you can use all the internet you want to at the 0.5 mbps download rate
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2019, 07:20   #184
Registered User
 
wingssail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: On Vessel WINGS, wherever there's an ocean, currently in Mexico
Boat: Serendipity 43
Posts: 2,911
Send a message via AIM to wingssail Send a message via Skype™ to wingssail
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
I see a general trend in many of the posts regarding discussion of justifications or lack of justification of the fees at marinas which discussions are being made from the perspective of the lessee / boat owner and not from the perspective of the lessor / marina owner. The reality is that perspective of justification that counts is the one involving the revenue perspective, not the cost side nor the fee payor side. The marina is establishing a price, it is up to the lessee to negotiate an alternative, if they can.
Well, of course it is up to the marina operator to establish the price, and based on whatever reasons of logic, set one which will maximize the income or profit and still maintain a decent occupancy rate. After all, it is a business.

But we, as cruisers can only focus on how much we have to pay, and since many of us are retired, and not in a position to set the amount of our income, most of us anyhow, we are feeling the pinch when the marina price goes up. Same as with the price of fuel, or food.

But one thing I'd like to mention: Some marinas are operated by municipal authorities, built with federal funds, on shoreline which may have been public lands or privately owned and acquired under eminent domain. Even private operators often have conditions applied on them by land and shoreline use agencies since the shorelines are usually considered as public and for public use. This puts a slightly different spin on it. If governments take land and public funds and build a marina for the benefit of the public, or allows a private developer to build and operate on those public shorelines, then we'd ostensibly think that fees would be set by consideration of the costs to operate, not simply what the traffic will bear. It's about providing a facility for the public good, not about how to maximize income for the operator.

But anyhow, like I said, we, as cruisers have little to say about it, and given the rarity of marinas, we basically have to pay it if we can, or leave marina usage to the wealthy. But we can grumble about it.
__________________
Sailing is a sport, an athletic activity, not a sedentary one.
Fred Roswold-Fred & Judy, SV Wings, Mexico
https://wingssail.blogspot.com/
wingssail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2019, 08:17   #185
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,843
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

The Marinas are Full in La Paz, MX...yet the Cruisers complain about the marina prices being too high (me included).
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2019, 08:32   #186
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2019
Boat: Beneteau 432, C&C Landfall 42, Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 2,154
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

the " liveaboard fee is a racket in my humble opinion. You can add this to the " environmental" fee some marina's charge.

I can remember the days when there was no such thing.

Some bright spark said...hey...here is an untapped revenue stream....the boater....what can we do to suck anuddah dollah outa dere pocket...and voila....the " liveaboard" fee arrived.

As boaters, we are " renters"...we rent the boat slip and marina's are in the business to make money. Slip fees are generally based on availability and convenience, but some marina's have taken a hit these past few years...and are looking at any way to conjure up mo' money. Desirable marina's can do this with ease. Less desirable marina's not as easy.

Besides all that, slip rental fees typically go up on a yearly basis...why ???....'cuz the marina wants mo' money.
I've been to marina's, where my dinghy in davits counts to overall boat length, to squeeze a few more bucks out of my wallet.

The " liveaboard" fee would be easier to swallow if it was made part of the dockage slip fee. A $150 fee amounts to about 0.12c/ft/Month for your average 40' boat.

I was just reading today about B'mas cruising " fees" going up. A B'mas official stating he thinks the boating traffic to the B'mas can most probably "absorb" the extra cost. These costs are political expedient and don't really have much to do with anything.
When I first started going to the B'mas, a cruising permit was around $20 or so, and a " fishing permit another $15 or thereabouts.
The day will come (When Cuba is opened to the US boating traffic), that the Bahamians will quickly really the folly of the " fees".
Can't come soon enuff !!

Folks may recall the so-called" Luxury" tax imposed on boats a while back. Almost overnight, the boat building industry died. The " Luxury" tax came about 'cuz some braindead politician thought it would be good idea to add revenue stream to the guv'mints coffers.

I fear all these " fees" will eventually spell doom for the marine industry. Sooner or later, people will say fuggit and move on.

On the other side of the coin, trying to build a new marina these days is an uphill permitting battle with State and Federal agencies. A marina typically is also on the hook for a " submerged land lease" and trying to " dredge" a marina involves more permitting I care to explain. Besides the water being " waters of the State"...the mud on the bottom also " belongs" to the State.

All in all, things are not looking very bright for the boater. I can remember the days, when come September time, the Canadian " snowbirds" could be seen chugging down the ICW. These days, I rarely, if ever, see a Canadian boat anymore.

I don't know what the answer is, but after 35 years on the water, I'm ready to hang it up.
MicHughV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2019, 23:03   #187
Registered User
 
Sojourner's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: On the boat!
Boat: SY Wake: 53' Amel Super Maramu
Posts: 863
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Is it really??????????????????

I own a 3 nice bedroom house in Jacksonville Fl that I rent out to my daughter form $500/mo and it costs about $150 for electric and water for the month. So that's $650/mo.

I really haven't found boat living to be less than land living. If anything the last 3 years I think it has been more to live on a boat. My house was pay off and the utilities and association fee were around $350/mo and it didn't need $500 in maintenance and repair each month.
A couple things: Of course, some liveaboard fees are crap made up to discourage riffraff, arbitrary or the like. Some extra is justified I think, how much you think is worth it is up to you.

So I'm telling you I'm here for 350 USD about a month. That's indeed less than 650 by quite a bit. And I'm also guessing you're renting your daughter that house at a discount; I also own a few houses I rent out in Colorado and Texas. My rents are 1500-2200 per month for the same size. Plus HOA. Not including whatever their utility bills are each month. Heating and cooling a 3 bed house, plus garbage plus water plus wastewater etc is sure as h@ll more than 150 per month where I own. For 500 a month straight up (no Dad discount) plus utils (150), you usually get a studio at best, in a crap part of town. For 350 I'm sitting here on a major greek island in a 53ft boat 2 min from the historic center, 3 min from the international airport, under an old castle filled with museum exhibits, bougainvillea and a private beach. The 600 USD last winter one was Mallorca. I gave up a slip this coming winter in downtown Palermo that was gonna be 500 bucks all included per month to be here in corfu instead for 300.

Speaking of, it's increasingly hard to find houses without HOAs. How is that justified? 200 and even 300 bucks a month for them mowing the neutral ground? I HATE HOAs because they don't give you jack except a constant source of complaints about your grass height. Liveaboard fees at least ostensibly are because the average liveaboard will indeed be heating and air conditioning and showering and laundering constantly vs transients (who often do pay metered rates and coin op laundry as well).

I totes agree marina managers should factor in the security function we provide. I helped many dozens of boats dock after hours last winter. We're a deterrent to people prowling around the other unoccupied boats, etc. That's a tangible service. But oh well, we can't exactly give them an invoice back can we?

And this doesn't include living on the hook most of the other six months for more or less free. So average that out over a year and you get 150 USD per month all in. If you tell me you can do that any other way, you're typing from a trailer in east wyoming 50 miles from the nearest town over 20 people

Repairs: 500 bucks a month... I don't know about that. I feel like I put that much into my home when I owned and lived in one. Garden stuff, painting, fiddling around, fridge craps out...sudden big bills can come on either way. Living without a car evens it out for me.

I hate stupid fees as much as anyone. And I'm not really defending them, except to say if the place is worth it to you, then the fee is worth it too. And it will still likely be the cheapest option.
Sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2019, 00:49   #188
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 40,414
Images: 241
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

I know marinas aren’t hotels, but ...
As smart revenue strategists know, maximizing occupancy isn't their goal; maximizing profitability is, and that requires striking a proper balance between occupancy and rate. As STR numbers show, at most hotels there are diminishing profit returns once the property reaches a certain occupancy level, unless average rates are increased.
While an owner might like to see 98% occupancy every night, it's the revenue manager’s job to communicate how a slightly lower occupancy at a slightly higher rate actually puts more money into the owner’s pocket.
A 2015 HOST data analysis of performance metrics from more than 5,000 hotels concluded that the level at which gross operating profit hits its peak is higher than some would have expected—hovering between 75% and 85% for full-service hotels, and between 71% and slightly more than 80% for limited service.
HNN - Research: Maximizing hotel profitability potential
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2019, 01:33   #189
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 22
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

This isn't about fees. You gotta pay for stuff, that's basic.
A lot of folks here talked about costs, and capitalism and stuff, its not about that either.

I think it's about buy 1 for $1, and by 10 for $20.

That's the inverse of capitalism, where bulk (usually) reduces per item price.
Sailorboy1 is right, it doesn't make any sense at all.
vigilant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2019, 06:57   #190
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2019
Boat: Beneteau 432, C&C Landfall 42, Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 2,154
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

I think the word " fee" is troublesome....it's a short jump to " fine"...
The word " fee" implies you are being charged for some unknown quantity....................like " goodwill"....
The word " cost" or " charge" or " add-on".. or something along those lines, might be more tolerable...maybe ??
MicHughV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2019, 11:06   #191
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,304
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

Pricing is best based on the value received

Costs should not come into it

If the seller is in a position to work that way.

From the customer's POV it should be take it or leave it.
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2019, 11:14   #192
Registered User

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Poole
Boat: Parkstone Bay 21
Posts: 163
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

In a capitalist society, the economic laws of supply and demand apply. If it costs me $1.00 to produce something, but no-one is prepared to pay more than that for it, I won't make any of them. But if people are prepared to pay me $5.00 each, I'll produce loads! Similarly with marina fees.
parkstone bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2019, 11:22   #193
S/V rubber ducky
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bahamas cruising currently
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 17,664
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

thread has become mumbo jumbo
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2019, 11:35   #194
Registered User
 
wingssail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: On Vessel WINGS, wherever there's an ocean, currently in Mexico
Boat: Serendipity 43
Posts: 2,911
Send a message via AIM to wingssail Send a message via Skype™ to wingssail
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Pricing is best based on the value received

Costs should not come into it

If the seller is in a position to work that way.

From the customer's POV it should be take it or leave it.
Like I said above, that's not always the case.
"Some marinas are operated by municipal authorities, built with federal funds, on shoreline which may have been public lands or privately owned and acquired under eminent domain. Even private operators often have conditions applied on them by land and shoreline use agencies since the shorelines are usually considered as public and for public use. This puts a slightly different spin on it. If governments take land and public funds and build a marina for the benefit of the public, or allows a private developer to build and operate on those public shorelines, then we'd ostensibly think that fees would be set by consideration of the costs to operate, not simply what the traffic will bear. It's about providing a facility for the public good, not about how to maximize income for the operator."
So, for those marinas, and there are many, which were built, or allowed on public lands, for the "public good", then cost should come into play.
__________________
Sailing is a sport, an athletic activity, not a sedentary one.
Fred Roswold-Fred & Judy, SV Wings, Mexico
https://wingssail.blogspot.com/
wingssail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2019, 12:29   #195
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2019
Boat: Beneteau 432, C&C Landfall 42, Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 2,154
Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

mumbo jumbo = liveaboard fee
MicHughV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fees, liveaboard

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fees? What fees? northoceanbeach General Sailing Forum 28 19-10-2014 10:19
Now am a Liveaboard Again Bluemansailor Liveaboard's Forum 7 12-09-2013 07:54
Liveaboard Fees sailorwoman Liveaboard's Forum 8 09-12-2011 15:07

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:33.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.