Liveaboard Fees - again

[a64pilot]

I don’t think I have ever been anywhere that didn’t have a live aboard fee or if not a stated live aboard fee then a higher price for “full time” cruisers.
Where I am now it’s $13 a foot non full time cruisers, $17 a foot full time cruisers as opposed to a set live aboard fee, bigger the boat, the more it costs to stay on the boat.
I’ve never gotten the first month not charged the fee either, not that I’m aware of, so be pleased you got one month free.

And I’ve always paid extra for electricity too, never had it part of the price, and sometimes I’ve paid way more for the electricity than the marina did, sort of a hidden profit for the marina, now that I don’t like.
But I guess they sell fuel and make a profit too, so why not the electricity?

[john61ct]

Yes consensus seems to be "sucks but not unreasonable".

I think raising awareness about "the liveaboard movement" among the citizens and politicians who have real political clout in our system,

would not **at all** be in our interest.

[Buzzman]

Start a new marina. Make it "all liveaboard" and fight the fight with the County and State....

The problem with the notion of a "Liveaboards Association" is that the wealthy local landlubbers object to your getting the 'ocean views' for which they paid a premium at anything like a discount.

Guess who the authorities will listen to...??

It's called the politics of envy.

The flipside is, if you won the battle, the 'authorities' would then tax the marina higher rates, which would be passed on, of course.

Be careful what you wish for!

[john61ct]

If you **really** want a brouhaha, use the State's own Affordable Housing laws to override tge wishes of local land use boards.

Fv*k property values 8-)

[sailorboy1]

Well I’m in a municipal marina n Gulfport MS that actually seems to want live aboards and advertises that. The fee is $200, which makes it $500/mo for me. Now to me that’s cheap. But the non live aboard boats have their air conditioners running just like I do. So I’m basically paying $200 /mo for 150-200 gal of water/mo and 3 bags of trash/week. And it isn’t like I’m taking up a slip that could rent out to a transient at a higher rate as the marina in only 1/4 full.

[barnakiel]

It is amazing how the pro-liveaboard can change to anti-liveaboard in a heartbeat. Politics play a major role in our lives, whether we like it or not.



In Las Palmas / Gran Canaria, the port from which the ARC starts, living aboard has been prohibited. And apparently all by a discretionary decision of the marina's new manager.


A new law got made within the period of TWO weeks and bang now living onboard your boat in Las Palmas is ILLEGAL. Amazing speed in a place where everything else takes months and years to happen ...



Truly disappointing show of political manipulation and bad will. Spain is clearly going the Greek way.



Spain was ah oh so happy to accept and use the EU funds to build the same marina. Now that the EU stopped sending them UK and German money, they are kicking the liveaboards out of.


For the liveaboard there were mostly retired Swedes, Germans and Brits looking for the sun.


My friends got affected. They say they used to be treated very well every time they stopped in Las Palmas between their Caribbean winters "many many times" and all was fine and people were friendly. Now they came back in summer 2018 and it all changed. They are moving on to a friendlier place in Tunisia in result.



Apparently it took only one new person in the marina's management to turn a paradise marina into a place where you are not welcome at all.


A funny twist: if you come in a proper sailing boat (an engineless boat) you will not be even given a chance to tie to a dock to sleep one night after your passage.


Just think about it - the MiniTransat stops here - and I am yet to see a Mini boat that has an engine.


And the ARC sailors - will they sleep in hotels now? Sure.


Unfair treatment, political decisions, private intereses ... stay tuned.



Well well, sad news from Spain.
b.

[Davo1404]

Thanks for posting. I was a live aboard in a Australian marina,where a small number of berth owners some who did not even own a boat took a proposal to the board to stop all live aboards. They were wanting a maximum of two nights of being on board. Fortunately this proposal was thrown out. It just goes to show how quickly things can change & how that this ludicrous proposal would have effectively dried up the marina's income that is generated by transient boats stopping for a few days.

Originally Posted by barnakiel

It is amazing how the pro-liveaboard can change to anti-liveaboard in a heartbeat. Politics play a major role in our lives, whether we like it or not.



In Las Palmas / Gran Canaria, the port from which the ARC starts, living aboard has been prohibited. And apparently all by a discretionary decision of the marina's new manager.


A new law got made within the period of TWO weeks and bang now living onboard your boat in Las Palmas is ILLEGAL. Amazing speed in a place where everything else takes months and years to happen ...



Truly disappointing show of political manipulation and bad will. Spain is clearly going the Greek way.



Spain was ah oh so happy to accept and use the EU funds to build the same marina. Now that the EU stopped sending them UK and German money, they are kicking the liveaboards out of.


For the liveaboard there were mostly retired Swedes, Germans and Brits looking for the sun.


My friends got affected. They say they used to be treated very well every time they stopped in Las Palmas between their Caribbean winters "many many times" and all was fine and people were friendly. Now they came back in summer 2018 and it all changed. They are moving on to a friendlier place in Tunisia in result.



Apparently it took only one new person in the marina's management to turn a paradise marina into a place where you are not welcome at all.


A funny twist: if you come in a proper sailing boat (an engineless boat) you will not be even given a chance to tie to a dock to sleep one night after your passage.


Just think about it - the MiniTransat stops here - and I am yet to see a Mini boat that has an engine.


And the ARC sailors - will they sleep in hotels now? Sure.


Unfair treatment, political decisions, private intereses ... stay tuned.



Well well, sad news from Spain.
b.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don’t think I have ever been anywhere that didn’t have a live aboard fee or if not a stated live aboard fee then a higher price for “full time” cruisers.
Where I am now it’s $13 a foot non full time cruisers, $17 a foot full time cruisers as opposed to a set live aboard fee, bigger the boat, the more it costs to stay on the boat.
I’ve never gotten the first month not charged the fee either, not that I’m aware of, so be pleased you got one month free.

And I’ve always paid extra for electricity too, never had it part of the price, and sometimes I’ve paid way more for the electricity than the marina did, sort of a hidden profit for the marina, now that I don’t like.
But I guess they sell fuel and make a profit too, so why not the electricity?

There is quite a bit of prejudice against liveaboards, and very little of it is justified, in my opinon.

I have never paid a "liveaboard fee" or anything like it.

Livaboard fees or fees for "full time" cruisers generally cannot be justified by additional costs of servicing a liveaboard in the marina. I've been through at least one study of this. Ignoring any benefit of having the liveaboard, the costs are minimal. Water used, garbage, parking spaces...nothing adds up to $150 or $200, not even close. We fought it for years and years, eventually the port won out, the number of liveaboards was capped and a fee applied. (I never had to pay it, I left first).

Liveaboard fees are simply supply and demand. The liveaboard need a place to stay, the marina sees that they can charge a high fee, and does so. Fairness is not involved.

But there are politics involved. People (not liveaboard boaters) feel that people should not live on boats. That is something filthy, wrong, hippies... These folks don't know but they imagine and they don't like it. So it is easy for authorities to come down on liveaboards. In one case I observed, the port commissioners visited a salt water marina and saw sea foam, which was brown, and assumed it was poo. Turned around and left, convinced that what they had heard was true; the liveaboards are polluting the water.

So, sadly, the sentiment is against liveaboards. Shorelines and shoreline usage will prevent the growth of marinas; we'll never have a reversal of the supply and demand situation.

In my case I realize I can't change it, I guess I just have to figure out how I can increase my income to deal with the rising fees and charges.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

It is amazing how the pro-liveaboard can change to anti-liveaboard in a heartbeat. Politics play a major role in our lives, whether we like it or not.



In Las Palmas / Gran Canaria, the port from which the ARC starts, living aboard has been prohibited. And apparently all by a discretionary decision of the marina's new manager.


A new law got made within the period of TWO weeks and bang now living onboard your boat in Las Palmas is ILLEGAL. Amazing speed in a place where everything else takes months and years to happen ...



Truly disappointing show of political manipulation and bad will. Spain is clearly going the Greek way.



Spain was ah oh so happy to accept and use the EU funds to build the same marina. Now that the EU stopped sending them UK and German money, they are kicking the liveaboards out of.


For the liveaboard there were mostly retired Swedes, Germans and Brits looking for the sun.


My friends got affected. They say they used to be treated very well every time they stopped in Las Palmas between their Caribbean winters "many many times" and all was fine and people were friendly. Now they came back in summer 2018 and it all changed. They are moving on to a friendlier place in Tunisia in result.



Apparently it took only one new person in the marina's management to turn a paradise marina into a place where you are not welcome at all.


A funny twist: if you come in a proper sailing boat (an engineless boat) you will not be even given a chance to tie to a dock to sleep one night after your passage.


Just think about it - the MiniTransat stops here - and I am yet to see a Mini boat that has an engine.


And the ARC sailors - will they sleep in hotels now? Sure.


Unfair treatment, political decisions, private intereses ... stay tuned.



Well well, sad news from Spain.
b.

Well, we have to stop whining and face reality: Liveaboards are vulnerable and we cannot change that. There is prejudice everywhere.

In my opinion, all we can do is figure out how to live with it.

I feel like it's 1939.

[john61ct]

Hello Godwin

[Montanan]

I see a general trend in many of the posts regarding discussion of justifications or lack of justification of the fees at marinas which discussions are being made from the perspective of the lessee / boat owner and not from the perspective of the lessor / marina owner. The reality is that perspective of justification that counts is the one involving the revenue perspective, not the cost side nor the fee payor side. The marina is establishing a price, it is up to the lessee to negotiate an alternative, if they can.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Well I’m in a municipal marina n Gulfport MS that actually seems to want live aboards and advertises that. The fee is $200, which makes it $500/mo for me. Now to me that’s cheap. But the non live aboard boats have their air conditioners running just like I do. So I’m basically paying $200 /mo for 150-200 gal of water/mo and 3 bags of trash/week. And it isn’t like I’m taking up a slip that could rent out to a transient at a higher rate as the marina in only 1/4 full.

You may want to reread your last sentence. If the marina is only 1/4 full then they most certainly are looking for tenants and since they get an additional $200 a month it makes sense for them to have live aboards. I’m curious if they have laundry or shower facilities. If they do do you use them? If so that’s further justification for the surcharge. It is what it is. It’s not going to change so you might as well accept it.

[valhalla360]

I bought a Mercedes and it's unfair that it costs more than a Toyota. They are both capped at the same speed limit on the road, heck the Toyota is more reliable and I think they are equally comfy.

Why does Mercedes charge more?

[markpierce]

Have nothing against liveaboards, especially nomadic cruisers, yet understand the need to limit liveaboards so to allow berths for recreactional boaters. Would hate to see marinas becoming low-income housing projects. Also wish boat owners would use their boats

[Sojourner]

We're full timers in the med who settle down for the winter 6 months. Last year it was Mallorca at about 20 euros a day all included. This year I got a deal under an old castle outside of Corfu 5 min walk from the center for 1200 euros for the whole winter, utils and wifi included. For a 53 footer. Sure I have to pay the extra hundred a month for the new Greek tax, but that still works out to be 10 bucks a day. No extra liveaboard fees. But if they wanted another 50 or 100 per month, I don't think I'd complain. 100% you'll be running the heat all winter, in Florida it'll be the AC. It's a steal compared to land living and all the utilities to pay there.