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Old 25-12-2016, 17:28   #31
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

I suspect from 30 year’s experience that marinas in general will specify “no live aboards” and “no pets” yet seemingly nearly every marina actually do have live aboards and pets. From discussions with marina managers, the above principles allow the marina manager to control the number and behaviour of both. Bad behaviour, a noisy pet and out ya go.
Security surely is an issue and only a fool would leave their boat in a marina for long periods without nearby live aboards. They can do maintenance etc. and keep an eye out for the owner in a manner that no manager can.
However, marinas are not benevolent institutions and make decisions based on maximising return on investment. e.g. if there are empty pens, then live aboards become a more likely proposition. If it is a seasonal tourist town then live aboards usually are welcome particularly if the marina has interests in nearby chandleries or restaurants.
Power consumption is a tricky issue. Very few marinas are prepared to invest in metering at the pen so sometimes an added fee is imposed for live aboards. In Darwin, air conditioning is near mandatory and this can lead to inconsistencies such as a 20 m power vessel running three split systems beside a 12 m sailing yacht running a tiny domestic system.
Usually, the smaller vessel is the loser in cost retrieval.
Probably the best thing to consider is “Does this marina, its costs, access to facilities (parking, toilets, lift out, chandlery, shopping, wi-fi etc.), security, insurance requirements etc. weigh up well.” Beware of marinas that are surrounded by expensive real estate. The marina was probably built to flog off expensive real estate, not to make marina living enjoyable.
Private marinas can evolve a bit like private airports. If there is no competition, and sometimes there isn’t, they go for the financial throat. Considering that boat owners usually spend every last cent on local business, there may even be a good case for community owned rather than privately owned marinas. Design the marina to have great facilities and then see local business benefit. Socialise capitalism, or vice versa.
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Old 25-12-2016, 17:53   #32
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

Let's get the terminology straight:

"Liveaboard" is a marina-approved status allowing the bether to permanently live on board his/her boat. This priviledge typically involves additional fees above and beyond slip rent.

"Sneakaboard" is unapproved by the marina. It is breaking the rules that legitimate berthers play by (whether they are liveaboard or not) and is typically done by those trying to get away with living on the cheap. An uncool practice.
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Old 25-12-2016, 18:10   #33
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Let's get the terminology straight:

"Liveaboard" is a marina-approved status allowing the bether to permanently live on board his/her boat. This priviledge typically involves additional fees above and beyond slip rent.

"Sneakaboard" is unapproved by the marina. It is breaking the rules that legitimate berthers play by (whether they are liveaboard or not) and is typically done by those trying to get away with living on the cheap. An uncool practice.
And IME, the sneakaboards are the ones with debilitated floating wrecks who think societal rules like not climbing on another's boat to look for things to steal don't apply to them, or burn their own and neighbors boat with stupid heating setups.
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Old 25-12-2016, 18:14   #34
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Let's get the terminology straight:

"Liveaboard" is a marina-approved status allowing the bether to permanently live on board his/her boat. This priviledge typically involves additional fees above and beyond slip rent.

"Sneakaboard" is unapproved by the marina. It is breaking the rules that legitimate berthers play by (whether they are liveaboard or not) and is typically done by those trying to get away with living on the cheap. An uncool practice.
I agree 100%.

Most marinas allow a specified time period to stay on boats without being considered a liveaboard, but some people will always try to sneak in. I remeber a next door neighboor in Long Beach Shoreline Village who did this. First it was just him, then he added a German Sheperd, next came his teenage son, then his girlfriend. He was finally given the one day boot after his German Sheperd bit two people and a legit liveaboard's poodle all in one week.

It's that sort of inconsiderate jerk who ruins it for everyone, the rules are in place to keep fools like this out.
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Old 25-12-2016, 22:42   #35
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

I am fortunate to live in a marina that does not charge extra for liveaboards. Shore power is via I dividual meters and billed directly by the electric co.pany. management appreciates us.

TBH I wish they were a little stricter... a few folks NEVER move their boats, even to the pumpout station. Some are actually unable to do so. I know they can't all be just "holding it" when it is too cold or rainy to visit the little hut on the promenade. they are supposed to have a running engine and a proper head I stallation and pump out at least once a month no matter what. if I have to go in the water to clear a through hull or the prop I like knowing I won't encounter any water brownies.
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Old 26-12-2016, 07:55   #36
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

In BC, if a person is a liveaboard acknowledged by the marina, they fall under the provincial Landlord Tennant Act, just as if they had rented an appartment. And that Act makes it difficult and tedious to get rid of problem people, even more so if they know the ropes. Any slip rental (ie normal type rental) don't fall under that act and therefore the marina operators have better control over problem persons.

The municipalities here view liveabords as leeches. As they do not have property under them they do not directly pay tax, and they use all the public infrastructure. The municipalitys do not get that liveaboards (boat or floathouse) contribute indirectly through the taxes their landloards, the marinas, pay. Not to mention actually using local businesses.
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Old 26-12-2016, 08:02   #37
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

It's hard for me to imagine anyone living aboard a boat in a marina without the marina management knowing about it. And the other boaters as well.

As I posted above, a couple tried it at my marina but was put out after a month or two. We have limited parking and they had three vehicles in the parking lot.
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Old 26-12-2016, 09:29   #38
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

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I think most marina's turn a blind eye as long as you don't abuse the privilege.. which it is..
Keep a low profile.. be polite and considerate to fellow boaters and staff.. most regard it as added security.. unless one becomes the problem..

This is how I got away with it. But the marina I was in had facilities but was not a live aboard marina. I wonder what the state wants for a marina to be live aboard.
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Old 26-12-2016, 15:17   #39
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

It seems the tolerance level of "sneakaboards" is all over the map.

Seems to me your best bet is to be above-board and ask. If you want to gauge the interest, suggest you'll be cruising but "maybe" end up staying aboard a lot. Or ask other slip renters.

The one universal is that everyone (management and other paying customers) WILL know you're living aboard. It's just a question of whether or not they care.

The reasons they might care are many. Legal requirements were mentioned above. The costs to provide for services like water, heads, showers, toilet paper, cleaning, maintenance and repair of facilities, etc. are often an issue. Parking can be an issue in some places. Aesthetics like piles of junk on the decks and docks, lack of maintenance, or a generally "lived in" look, may be an issue at some places.

Learn the issues, learn what's allowed and what's tolerated, and you'll be fine.

You're asking for grief if you just assume it will be OK to sneak aboard full-time without learning these details.
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Old 26-12-2016, 17:29   #40
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

The policy often is the result of an EPA or state permit to operate the marina. There seems to be a group of people and government bureaucrats that do not like boats. In Florida it is the save the Manatee and the environmental zealots who think that those of us who use boats are destroying the water ways.
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Old 26-12-2016, 17:49   #41
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

Often marinas charge extra docking fees because liveaboards cost extra for electricity, use of facilities, and so on. So they should be interested on who is living there. Here, liveaboards are limited to ten percent of berths. The question is how close marinas follow regulations. ... Now, transients can be another matter. Known a transient staying in a marina for over a year because of the owners' injury.
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Old 26-12-2016, 19:42   #42
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

We lived aboard at a large marina in the NYC area. They did not allow 'liveaboards' but did allow 'stayaboards', whatever the difference was. Power was individually metered so that eliminated much of the problem.
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Old 27-12-2016, 00:12   #43
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

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Originally Posted by AiniA View Post
We lived aboard at a large marina in the NYC area. They did not allow 'liveaboards' but did allow 'stayaboards', whatever the difference was. Power was individually metered so that eliminated much of the problem.
Our first year on the boat was at a marina with the same policy. It was explained that a "stay aboard" had a specific end date for living in the marina, while a "liveaboard" was open ended.

At least that was their differentiation.
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Old 27-12-2016, 06:20   #44
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

I checked one marina here and the dock master said you can stay aboard five days but If I catch you on board three in a row then your a live aboard. ?. Where's the thinking there? The first thing I thought was because I grew up in the area was, I can do laundry once a week at my brothers and break the five in a row thing. And go to my mom's to take her to dinner the other night and problem solved. Unless they do not give you a key to showers or something but that was included in the dock fees. electric was you had to get your own meter. Just get up early and leave (before 6AM) and come in (past 7PM) at night and your in.
P.S. Can they really bust your chops if your caught and say you were on vacation? It seems to me there is some gray area there. They cannot keep you from your boat.
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Old 31-12-2016, 17:45   #45
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Re: Liveaboard don't ask don't tell

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Pretty hard to not be noticed, what happens when the end of the season comes and you don't want to be pulled from the water?

what I never understood about marinas not wanting liveaboards, is they provide essentially free security and build community for the marina, community is what makes marinas thrive!
i a not living aboard (yet) and i leave my boat in the water all year. that's not really an indicator. however...

i agree with your second point whole heartedly. it's guaranteed income. definite free security. you view the marina as your home so you'd have a tendency to take care of it. you are watching your neighbor's boats and might notice problems before they get terminal. i, personally, have donated docklines to neighbors when i noticed theirs were iffy. i have hung (my spare) fenders on boats that had none. that kind of thing. i have shoveled the docks when it snowed and i regularly pick up trash around the marina...benefits of someone who considers the marina their home.


so, yeah, i don't get it. yeah. you can get unsavory types but, if you check people out you can weed that out. not much different than renting out an apartment...an apartment you are watching all the time. if there is a problem live aboard, you will know and can kick them out.
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