Liveaboard around Vancouver without a slip

[bcguy]

Originally Posted by amandak

Maybe you would. I certainly wouldn't. I dumped regularly at Burrard Marina.

Full time cruising liveaboard 15 years, winter over Gulf Islands protected anchorages. Sewage: get a composting marine head (air head, natures head or make your own cheap from Brent Swain - designer of Origami Steel Boats - brentswain36@protonmail.com) DO NOT buy a steel boat until consult with Swain before you fork over your cash. Steel is not the best - Properly prepared steel is the best boat material. You can check out steel boats, liveaboard and cruising at (gold pan fry pan) youtube channel (mine). Good luck ... your overall goal is doable ... great posts here all part of the cake you want to bake.

[TrentePieds]

Dmitry:

Ah! You are learning - you might not know it, but you are ;-)!

No marina worth the moorage it charges permits live-aboards, and no contract I've ever seen permits it. There are some grotty places around that do, if not permit it, at least tolerate it. Shelter Island was for years known as the "graveyard of boats" because they permitted "owner repairs" and "live-aboards". I believe improvements have been made :-)!

If you are a good boy, and you don't annoy your dock mates, and if you look and conduct yourself as if you have money, even if you don't, a marina may "fail to notice" that you've been aboard for - uhm - three weeks without moving. But be very careful! The moorage contract sez that the marina can kick you out without notice if you break the stated rules - of which "no living aboard" is one. The contract is so formulated that the marina can cancel the contract at its option and tow you out beyond its water lease and cast you adrift - whether you are aboard or not. And you will still be on the hook for the moorage fees for the remainder of the moorage year. Take that one to court, and you WILL lose!

Remember that marinas are capital intensive money making machines for their owners, which means that their target market are people that, ashore and afloat, nurture a certain "NIMBY' attitude. One or two marinas may keep a superannuated hippie around for a pet. People like England's Tom Cunliffe (q.v.). But I doubt that you are in that category yet.

You will also find that there are subtleties at play: Many marinas like to have retired RCN petty officers on the dock staff. If you can "speak Navy" and conduct yourself appropriately, and have demonstrated competence in the keeping and handling of your boat, you may be cut a little slack. If not....

Anyway, keep working at it... :-)

Cheers

TrentePieds

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Dmitry:

Ah! You are learning - you might not know it, but you are ;-)!

No marina worth the moorage it charges permits live-aboards, and no contract I've ever seen permits it. There are some grotty places around that do, if not permit it, at least tolerate it. Shelter Island was for years known as the "graveyard of boats" because they permitted "owner repairs" and "live-aboards". I believe improvements have been made.

TrentePieds

Probably true in Vancouver with a few exceptions in False Creek.

Victoria is quite different though. At least 6 marinas in Victoria Harbour allow liveaboards. More in Brentwood Bay and Sidney.

I have lived aboard several boats in Victoria Harbour for over 22 years in marinas that allow it. My current marina is all liveaboard. Been here 12 years.

[Greg Mason]

A small contrary note to TrentePieds, we legally lived aboard at False Creek Yacht Club. The City of Vancouver, at that time allowed 10% of marina as liveaboards. We were issued a license plate and paid $1000 for it, which covered our share of city taxes water etc. It was in our contract. Many marinas restrict the amount of days per month you can stay over, and liveaboard lifestyle gets exposed very quickly, especially on the sly. The last thing you want is to be on some kind of watch list. Keep asking questions.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Dmitry:

Ah! You are learning - you might not know it, but you are ;-)!

No marina worth the moorage it charges permits live-aboards, and no contract I've ever seen permits it. There are some grotty places around that do, if not permit it, at least tolerate it. Shelter Island was for years known as the "graveyard of boats" because they permitted "owner repairs" and "live-aboards". I believe improvements have been made :-)!

If you are a good boy, and you don't annoy your dock mates, and if you look and conduct yourself as if you have money, even if you don't, a marina may "fail to notice" that you've been aboard for - uhm - three weeks without moving. But be very careful! The moorage contract sez that the marina can kick you out without notice if you break the stated rules - of which "no living aboard" is one. The contract is so formulated that the marina can cancel the contract at its option and tow you out beyond its water lease and cast you adrift - whether you are aboard or not. And you will still be on the hook for the moorage fees for the remainder of the moorage year. Take that one to court, and you WILL lose!

Remember that marinas are capital intensive money making machines for their owners, which means that their target market are people that, ashore and afloat, nurture a certain "NIMBY' attitude. One or two marinas may keep a superannuated hippie around for a pet. People like England's Tom Cunliffe (q.v.). But I doubt that you are in that category yet.

You will also find that there are subtleties at play: Many marinas like to have retired RCN petty officers on the dock staff. If you can "speak Navy" and conduct yourself appropriately, and have demonstrated competence in the keeping and handling of your boat, you may be cut a little slack. If not....

Anyway, keep working at it... :-)

Cheers

TrentePieds

Largely, but not totally true. There's Spruce Harbour marina which is totally liveaboard - and has a multi-year waiting list. In Pender Harbour where I live, the Harbour Authority permits one or two experienced and trusted liveaboards at each of their four docks - mainly to act as security guards, notify them if a boat is sinking, re-tie mooring lines that have come adrift, etc. Again, there are LONG waiting lists for a berth at any of those docks.

It is EXTREMELY difficult to get the water lease, development permits, etc. to build a marina - and very expensive to build one. As a result not many have been built in recent years in the Vancouver area, and the ever-increasing number of boats looking for a slip has FAR out-stripped the supply. I think you might have a great deal of difficulty finding something. If it was me I'd drive along River Road in Delta and try some of those grotty looking docks on the Fraser or maybe go to Squamish. As a side benefit, both are in fresh or brackish water so salt water growth won't grow on your bottom and when you go sailing in the salt chuck, the fresh water stuff will die and fall off. Result: a (relatively) clean hull.

Good luck!

[amandak]

Originally Posted by jeepers

If I was going to do what you describe.
And one day I might..
I would look at Bowen Island just across from Horseshoe Bay.
And, I would keep a regular eye on Craigslist posts.
There was a mooring with a 38' sailboat also a Boston whaler type with motor & a floating dock on a well sheltered mooring.
A month ago there was a 55' boat for FREE @ Uclulet.

Bowen does offer winter liveaboard (Oct to April), but there is a waitlist. The bay beside Snug Cove is a bit of a pain to anchor in as the residents on the shore really dislike liveaboards and can make things pretty miserable. If that doesn't bother you then Mannion Bay would work. I read an article awhile ago about a resident of Mannion Bay declaring war on boaters.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by dmitrytoda

1. For those interested what I decide: I've decided that I am not ready yet to live at anchor full time, but I could try a marina for the first half a year to a year. BUT then I discovered that it's virtually impossible to get a slip. I called a dozen random marinas both on the maindland and on the islands, and none of them had any available. Of course there is more marinas around here, and I will keep calling, but doesn't look very promising.

2. I managed to find one slip on kijiji, but that particular marina (in Nanaimo) does not allow liveaboards. As, I suspect, most of them.
For those lucky to have slips somewhere in BC: is it written in your contracts that you cannot sleep aboard more than N nights per month or something? or is it just not encouraged? anybody has the experience of doing a sneak abord life in BC?

1. Which is what we've been telling you.


2. Yes, it IS in the contracts limiting time you can spend. Sneak aboard? Hahahahahahaha. You should do a search on those two words. Why? Because you will find, almost without fail, that since liveaboards PAY for that privilege, once they find out you're trying to get away with it for free, what do you think happens?

[amandak]

Originally Posted by dmitrytoda

For those interested what I decide: I've decided that I am not ready yet to live at anchor full time, but I could try a marina for the first half a year to a year. BUT then I discovered that it's virtually impossible to get a slip. I called a dozen random marinas both on the maindland and on the islands, and none of them had any available. Of course there is more marinas around here, and I will keep calling, but doesn't look very promising.

I managed to find one slip on kijiji, but that particular marina (in Nanaimo) does not allow liveaboards. As, I suspect, most of them.
For those lucky to have slips somewhere in BC: is it written in your contracts that you cannot sleep aboard more than N nights per month or something? or is it just not encouraged? anybody has the experience of doing a sneak abord life in BC?

It's very difficult to find legal liveaboard in BC that's immediately available (I've been on the waitlist at Heather Civic Marina for 7 years now and Sydney for 3 or so). Alot of people do what's called 'sneakaboard' living. I did it for a few years and I found it stressful. You can probably get away with it for a bit, but you'll eventually get kicked out - likely b/c other boaters complain. if you're not ready to anchor and you alter your lifestyle to live at a dock and one find yourself without a dock... that would be tough .

I've only lived on anchor for a year (as opposed to at a marina), but I prefer it so much more than living at a dock, but I understand not everyone would feel that way .

I remember speaking to one of the managers at a local marina and they do put it in the contracts that you can stay on your boat for not more than 60 nights for the contract year, but from what I understand that is a Health Canada law b/c of sewage. Apparently the contract that I had with a Vancouver marina had that, but it was not a clause that 'allowed' you stay on your boat for 60 nights, but just one that meant 'IF' you do it maxes out at 60.

[amandak]

[QUOTE=mitiempo;3251290]Probably true in Vancouver with a few exceptions in False Creek.

>>> in False Creek I believe there are 3 'offical' liveaboard marina options:

1. Heather Civic Marina - about 8-9 year waitlist for 30' boat (longer for bigger boats)

2. Spruce Harbour - I called them a few years ago and they weren't even taking anymore waitlisters. I think she said about a 9 years waitlist. Crazy expensive to get in. I know a gal who bought a boat from someone at Spruce and was able to assume their spot for living aboard. I think, though, all in all, she ended up forking over $275,000 for boat and spot.

3. False Creek Yacht Club - some liveaboard, but I am not sure how that works. Others reading this thread might.

[Macblaze]

You could try a combination of your plans. A lot of marinas (at least on the Island) offer winter moorage. Then live on the hook during the cruising season.

[jeepers]

Originally Posted by amandak

Bowen does offer winter liveaboard (Oct to April), but there is a waitlist. The bay beside Snug Cove is a bit of a pain to anchor in as the residents on the shore really dislike liveaboards and can make things pretty miserable. If that doesn't bother you then Mannion Bay would work. I read an article awhile ago about a resident of Mannion Bay declaring war on boaters.

That would be Mannion & then Deep Bay. Then there is Millers Landing Bay. All of which people moor on. Then around the Finestere Island there is Smugglers Bay (caution here as to Squamish out-flow)to the north west. You can go all around to the Government or as it is known locally as Mt. Gardner dock @ Galbraith Bay with the offshore protection of Hutt Island. Then there is Bowen Bay & the public access of Tunstall bay. Then around the south shore there are many coves & bays. You might want to move a few times. You could stay at at different place every night & not visit the same place twice in close to a month. You could always tie up to the Gov't dock in Snug cove for a few hours. Scope things out. Visit the Snug Cafe and/or the Bowen Pub. V. Good Ferry service to the mainland. The locals might be a bit stand offish. But the single moms aren't...

[seatotaler]

Do some research on getting a good surveyor. Be prepared for the financial impact of paying for the haulout and for the survey, for perhaps several boats. If you decide to buy one of the boats, the surveyor will have a list of "must do recommendations" You will have to do them, (even if they are completely unreasonable) or have the current owner do them in order to get insurance, because the insurance company will want a copy of the survey. On that note be prepared to have a survey done every 5 years because a lot of insurance companies want that. Also be prepared to expect a substantial increase in your insurance premiums annually. They like to use the reasoning that there are increased claims forcing them to raise the rates.
Since it seems that you're doing this for budget reasons you better have a lot of mechanical skills. If you need something fixed that you can't do yourself you may need to find a slip at a marina or boatyard to stay at, since many of the marine tradespeople might not want to get in a dinghy with all their tools and supplies and parts in the pouring rain on a windy day to service your boat that's on the hook. Try to build a good rapport with a chandlery so you can get a “good guy” discount.
Also remember no matter how much insurance you have, it won't be of any value when another boat breaks away during a storm and smashes into your boat. If you're not on board when it happens, hopefully the owner of that boat will leave a note with contact info, like they did with mine when that happened to me recently.
If you're a light sleeper, it probably won't work out. Mast clatter will keep you awake. Some people when they leave their boat really don't think about that sort of thing and they don't insure that all lines are tight and won't vibrate against the mast or boom when the wind picks up. Also you'll have to allow quite a bit of extra time to get to work in the morning. Meaning getting up extra early and going to bed kinda early. In the summer months people love to party into the wee hours of the morning when they're on the hook with lots of people and beer on board. Usually they really don't pay much attention to allowing significant space between boats when they drop their anchor.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by seatotaler

If you're a light sleeper, it probably won't work out. Mast clatter will keep you awake. Some people when they leave their boat really don't think about that sort of thing and they don't insure that all lines are tight and won't vibrate against the mast or boom when the wind picks up. Also you'll have to allow quite a bit of extra time to get to work in the morning. Meaning getting up extra early and going to bed kinda early. In the summer months people love to party into the wee hours of the morning when they're on the hook with lots of people and beer on board. Usually they really don't pay much attention to allowing significant space between boats when they drop their anchor.

Well, somebody's a pessimist!

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by seatotaler

On that note be prepared to have a survey done every 5 years because a lot of insurance companies want that. Also be prepared to expect a substantial increase in your insurance premiums annually. They like to use the reasoning that there are increased claims forcing them to raise the rates.
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.
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Also remember no matter how much insurance you have, it won't be of any value when another boat breaks away during a storm and smashes into your boat.

My insurance (here in BC) requires a survey every 10 years.

We did get a big increase (!) a couple years ago (with reasons stated as above), but only a small increase this year.

My insurance covers incidents caused by uninsured boaters.

The OP might not be considering insurance, although marinas will require at least 3rd party liability.

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "My insurance (here in BC) requires a survey every 10 years..."

Yes. Same experience as pelagia. However, OP is new to the province and new to sailing, so with the tightening of the insurance market that has happened recently, hull insurance may not be easily available for him. Liability insurance (only) is rather easier to get, which is fortunate given that marinas require you to have it. If OP has a satisfactory "risk profile" either via Home Owner's Insurance or via Tenant's Insurance he should have no problem getting this coverage from the underwriter carrying his previous coverage.

Uninsured and Underinsured Boater's Protection is analogous to Uninsured and Underinsured Motorist Protection, commonly abbreviated as "UUMP", and therefore known as "wimp insurance". What it amounts to is that you buy Liability coverage for an unspecified third party.

Nowadays, wimp insurance is (as far as I know) a standard "included" coverage, i.e. there is no extra premium for it. But what it is included in, is Hull coverage, so unless the OP obtains Hull Insurance he cannot have wimp insurance. Thus, if he were holed and sunk due to another, uninsured or unidentified, boat running into him while he was absent from his boat anchored in, say, False Creek, he would have no coverage.

TP