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Old 18-11-2020, 18:29   #16
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

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Originally Posted by mogulskibum View Post
We're taking a little bit different of a tactic than are you - mainly just a longer timeline. We're also in DC - our timeline is to leave in 4 years rather than 4 months .


What you've outlined is certainly not insensible, although there a few things I would do right now if I were you:


1. Start looking at actual, available boats *in person* right now. The reality is always very different than the pictures, and you've got to look at real life boats in person before you can start to really "read" a picture and "see" what it's telling you (beyond "oooh, that looks nice").



There's a very good chance that once you view half a dozen boats in person that your expectations will shift some (most likely there will be some "we'll need a bigger boat and/or budget than we were thinking).


2. Take pictures *AND* lots of notes as you view boats in person.



3. Start developing a checklist of things to specifically look at. There are a few books and articles on questions to ask yourself/checklists to go through as you look at a boat - read them, and tailor the questions to your specific situation/preferences (especially around the "work from home/boat" aspect which until very recently have been unaddressed in the classic "checklists for looking at boats" - e.g. do you need two work spaces? will you have to both be on conference calls at the same time? can one person use the galley/head/any boat system at all while the other one is on a business call, or will they have to quietly do _____).


4. Once you've done the above, start casting a very wide net in looking at boats for sale. If you find a make/model/year that checks all your boxes but that particular one is too expensive or needs too much work, write the make/model down so that you can look closely at any others when they pop up on your searches - this goes the other way too: if you eliminate a model because it just won't work due to _____, write it down so that you don't waste time looking at ads for that make/model anymore. We had 40 different specific make/models on our "we'd buy the right one of ____" by the time we made our purchase (and a much, much longer "nope, those will never work for us" list - note: our "won't work" list had many very popular (and very good) cruising models - they just didn't fit what would work for us).



5. Also remember that asking prices are just that, asking. Most are *very* negotiable (we paid almost 30% less than asking when we bought, and that's not unusual).



6. One thing that can be helpful is to post a link and pictures to any specific boat you're thinking about here - lots of people will point out strengths and weaknesses of the design and comment on specific things (good and bad) that they see in the pictures.



Lastly, I have no relation at all to this boat, and have only seen the ad here on CF, but if I were looking for a cruising boat in the DC area right now, I'd take an afternoon and go a look at this one:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...se-238644.html


If it weren't for the little pandemic thing going on, I'd be glad to meet you for a beer, and discussion, etc - I also spent a lot of time racing lasers (mostly in college) before "graduating" to bigger boats as a so-called "adult."
mogulskibum,

This is a great list, I'm not sure why, but I hadn't considered looking at boats locally to get a feel for them. I luckily did get to go on an IP 350 (not the 35 that is 50k cheaper and a little older) and a few others at the Annapolis Boat Show this past year. But I think it'd definitely be worth while to go check out boats nearby to get a better feel. Brokers won't get annoyed that I'm sort of window shopping, will they?
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Old 18-11-2020, 18:50   #17
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

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Thanks for the reply Joel. Do you think that a IP 35 could reasonably get around the horns? (and I say 'reasonably' because I've read plenty of people say that many boats CAN make it around, but may not be recommended)
The horn of Africa is near Yemen up in the red sea. Southern tip of Africa is cape of good hope. There is just one cape that's a horn.

Problem with wanting to go to cape horn is the passage there in a slowish boat. That's a lot of coastline not known to be great cruising destinations. People have crossed cape horn in kayaks.

I would buy something comfortable for the Bahamas and go from there. A Catalina or anything similar is more than capable of going through Panama and cruising the south pacific. I would really try to get some time on a Long keel heavy displacement boat before deciding that's your thing. I was convinced for the longest time that's what you needed for 'bluewater' because of these forums.
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Old 19-11-2020, 18:27   #18
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

Yep all sensible ,ideas ,had a bit Of time in the Tasman ,southern ocean east coast and west coast of aus ,and some of NZ ,the American built Catalina 38 mk2 And the 42 mk2 were good for all oceans ,comfortable and fast enough ,and well built by most standards Verry affordable in the US , just saying ⚓️⛵️
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Old 19-11-2020, 20:13   #19
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

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Originally Posted by blueshorts View Post
mogulskibum,

This is a great list, I'm not sure why, but I hadn't considered looking at boats locally to get a feel for them. I luckily did get to go on an IP 350 (not the 35 that is 50k cheaper and a little older) and a few others at the Annapolis Boat Show this past year. But I think it'd definitely be worth while to go check out boats nearby to get a better feel. Brokers won't get annoyed that I'm sort of window shopping, will they?

As long as you're honest, they won't get annoyed.

"We're not planning on buying until next spring, but we're starting to look now to learn the market so we can hit the ground running then."

You're probably at a point where you should be expanding what you consider rather than narrow it down, and one of the best ways to do that is to get out and start looking. There are probably 100+ boat models out there that would serve your needs and with which you would be happy.

I (and a lot of folks on here) don't want to deter your dream or your enthusiash; dreams are special things to sailors - so at this point you'll probably hear few, if any, negative things about a particular model that is inspiring your dream.

Boats, especially monohulls in the 30-40 ft range, are generally ironclad demonstrations of the maxim "everything is a trade off." Some designers (and previous owners who made modifications) made terrible trade offs, most made sensible ones. But are they the right trade offs for you?

Worst case scenario you go look at a lot of boats (which is always fun), and then decide to stick with the IP - except you'll now be more confident in that choice.
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Old 19-11-2020, 21:36   #20
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

Ahoy blueshorts:


Once you've chosen a boat, another big step is to decide what equipment it will need.
And thus the old rule of thumb: Spend 3/4 of your budget on the purchase....the other 1/4 will be needed to repair/upgrade it!
Safety Equipment: an automatically inflatable life raft will set you back more than a few dollars, an EPIRB is also essential.

The third item on MY list of essentials will be much cheaper. Over your chart table put up the following sign:
A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drownd, said the old fisherman from the Blasket Islands. But we do be afraid of the sea and we do only be drownd now and again. J.M.Synge (the Irish play write).

Not to dissuade you from going, but to temper the hubris. <grin>
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Old 19-11-2020, 22:28   #21
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

I haven't read all prior posts in detail, but something you will need to consider is how comfortable you want to be living on a boat 24/7 six to 12 months at time. Mundane things like laundry, do you you want to have a clothes washer, or are you going to do it by hand, or cart it backwards and forwards at various marinas. If you want a clothes washer you will need to feed it water and electricity. This means usually a water maker and a generator or a big solar array. The boat is now growing bigger. Then there are guests on board, do you want a separate head for them or are you all going to share. At least living at your parents dock will prompt you on how tedious some of these things can be especially over an extended period, think of holding tanks and pump outs etc, don't just run up to the house to do your business, try it for a month. As an additional course you should get up to speed on marine electrical systems, understand the different electrical supplies around the world, how 12V systems work etc. There is heaps more of items of course and a lot of forumites will debate the "simple" cruising life (ie minimalist type) vs luxurious type, monohull vs multi hull etc etc which really comes down to budget. Good luck with your endeavors, you have planned this better than we did.
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Old 21-11-2020, 16:33   #22
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

My take, and I have similar intent is that the constant motion is the biggest single liability to being productive, safe and comfortable. That means that most people like you will spend the vast majority of their time tied up in a slip in a marine "trailer park"... also known as a marina... or the dock option mentioned. There are many nice places to anchor, but they are often subject to a swell which will set your boat rolling, and that makes any kind of productivity difficult at best, and is also fatiguing. Your body is always having to deal with balance and resisting this motion. I'm not the typical person I suspect, in that I like solitude and quiet. I have always been most comfortable in remote places with nobody around except for the person I might be with, surrounded by undisturbed nature. The coastlines are full of tiny tucked away spots, often not well protected or too shallow for most boats. This makes a catamaran the only sensible choice for me.... Your mileage may differ. A cat often has 50% more interior living space than a monohull of the same length plus an expansive foredeck and very generous cockpit. The selection in older smaller cats is limited at best... I personally would not want one of the narrow beam ones. For me personally the best fit is the FP Maldives in factory builts, often found around 50K and up. I don't have a prejudice against ply epoxy owner built boats if they are well done, as some folks do. A good bridge deck cabin serves as a pilot house while under way, and at anchor provides an excellent all around view, a place to lounge in shelter when necessary, to comfortably work, to enjoy the shoreside scenery, marine life, bird life, and other wildlife, watch the sunsets, see the weather building, etc, that you can not really enjoy on a monohull except from the cockpit or foredeck.

Things that you are willing to accept on a short trip or a short time aboard , can become annoyances after an extended period. Living aboard is a far different proposition than weekending and taking the occasional vacation trip.


That's MY take for what it's worth.... Other people's mileage will vary. I did not arrive at these conclusions immediately, they are the product of a lot of time and thought. When I weigh everything, I always come to the same conclusion now... It's not a fork in the road for me, but a final conclusion I don't see changing.
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Old 21-11-2020, 17:36   #23
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

Sounds like a great plan to me! Time and ride wait for no one. Here’s what worked for us, and I’ll leave a link on the odd chance it’s a good fit. We are also in Annapolis, but basically we bought a boat in Grenada, which was sailed there from Sourh Africa, so we knew it was capable. The plan was to take the kids for a Caribbean cruise. COVID hit and we ended up heading up through the Bahamas on up to Maine and now Annapolis. She’s been great. My .02 cents is to get a boat that hasn’t been sitting around, one that requires minimal engineering,, and something with a turn of speed and performance. We’re here: https://m.sailboatlistings.com/view/88625

All the best
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Old 21-11-2020, 17:49   #24
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

Good for you!!
Make it happen, ignore all those voices that tell you why you shouldn't, why it can't work or why you'll probably hate it once you get there.

We just celebrated our 8year anniversary of freedom and 2years on a boat full time and wouldn't change a thing!!!

see you out here!
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Old 21-11-2020, 20:10   #25
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

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My take, and I have similar intent is that the constant motion is the biggest single liability to being productive, safe and comfortable. That means that most people like you will spend the vast majority of their time tied up in a slip in a marine "trailer park"... also known as a marina... or the dock option mentioned. There are many nice places to anchor, but they are often subject to a swell which will set your boat rolling, and that makes any kind of productivity difficult at best, and is also fatiguing. Your body is always having to deal with balance and resisting this motion. I'm not the typical person I suspect, in that I like solitude and quiet. I have always been most comfortable in remote places with nobody around except for the person I might be with, surrounded by undisturbed nature. The coastlines are full of tiny tucked away spots, often not well protected or too shallow for most boats. This makes a catamaran the only sensible choice for me.... Your mileage may differ. A cat often has 50% more interior living space than a monohull of the same length plus an expansive foredeck and very generous cockpit. The selection in older smaller cats is limited at best... I personally would not want one of the narrow beam ones. For me personally the best fit is the FP Maldives in factory builts, often found around 50K and up. I don't have a prejudice against ply epoxy owner built boats if they are well done, as some folks do. A good bridge deck cabin serves as a pilot house while under way, and at anchor provides an excellent all around view, a place to lounge in shelter when necessary, to comfortably work, to enjoy the shoreside scenery, marine life, bird life, and other wildlife, watch the sunsets, see the weather building, etc, that you can not really enjoy on a monohull except from the cockpit or foredeck.

Things that you are willing to accept on a short trip or a short time aboard , can become annoyances after an extended period. Living aboard is a far different proposition than weekending and taking the occasional vacation trip.


That's MY take for what it's worth.... Other people's mileage will vary. I did not arrive at these conclusions immediately, they are the product of a lot of time and thought. When I weigh everything, I always come to the same conclusion now... It's not a fork in the road for me, but a final conclusion I don't see changing.


Thats a really cool cat. Take the galley down and you have a seawind 1000. Wish more manufacturers still made these. I suppose the only one is mainecat now. A bit of a budget stretch. Perfect Bahamas boat though.
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Old 22-11-2020, 09:11   #26
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

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Thats a really cool cat. Take the galley down and you have a seawind 1000. Wish more manufacturers still made these. I suppose the only one is mainecat now. A bit of a budget stretch. Perfect Bahamas boat though.

I'm not thrilled with the space galley up on the Maldives takes up I personally like many of the owner built catamarans made from ply epoxy. If properly built they are lighter and tougher than GRP boats, or factory built foam sandwich boats. The strength to weight ratio far exceeds solid GRP and they lack the many problems foam cored boats made using the conventional factory construction methods have, nor do you have structural liners as many modern GRP boats do, making access to the inside of the hull impossible. I lean heavily toward a couple of Richard Woods designs.. and a few others. Unfortunately in the US, availability of these seems to be limited, but realistically, I don't care where in the world "my" boat is when I buy it. The starting point of a voyage of adventure and discovery really doesn't matter does it?
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Old 30-11-2020, 08:12   #27
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

Great choice on the boat and those classes. It sounds like a plan and you may find yourself following in other cruisers wakes. Enjoy
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Old 30-11-2020, 08:28   #28
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

I live aboard year round on the Chesapeake right now. Your plan is just about what I did 2 years ago. Come up with an ‘’all in” budget, and shop vessels that sell for 80% of that. Find the boat that feels like it’s a home. Brokers don’t mind window shopping I’ve found if you’re up front about it. I got all kinds of ‘full keel/blue water’ chatter on a few forums, but at 6’1”, a lot of them were cramped and not very comfortable aboard for daily living.

Plus, moving around East Coast marinas, I’d look for a vessel that backs down reasonably well, and has a bow thruster. Even if you’re not home based at a Marina, pulling into Cape May or Ocean City to dodge weather requires some tight quarter maneuvering.

After looking about, I landed on a Catalina 42mk2. Terrific live aboard layout, and with the addition of hand holds & lee cloths, capable of taking me anywhere I wish to go. IP makes a great boat- I wouldn’t be as concerned with the brand and such until you shop around and see what feels right. Cockpit/Master Cabin layouts will eliminate a boat of two that looks great on paper. Example: I ruled out comparable boats to mine due to lack of a dedicated shower/shower too small, and lack of head room in the owners cabin. Once you’ve decided, shop locally- there are ALOT of full outfitted cruisers that go up for sale on the Bay. You’ll pay a little more than you will in a more remote location, but you don’t have to fly anywhere, or incur moving costs.

Also, suggest you guys sign up with OPO and take a Swan trip as a couple- it’s like a cruisers boot camp.
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Old 30-11-2020, 08:47   #29
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

FWIW - We made a a plan and started following it about five years ago and we are on track to be in MD May 2021 to finish outfitting the boat for a circumnavigation starting NOV 2021(and if Covid let's us). Maybe we'll see you there!

Plans are good. Plans are essential. Plans change...a lot. Be flexible, but not willing to quit. There's a lot out there that will want you to quit. Ignore it.

I'd also like to point out that there is nothing wrong with being in love with a single boat and going for it. But you absolutely should be in love with it for the right reasons - ie, you've looked at others, know what you need in a long term live aboard lifestyle, and believe this boat is the best compromise.

I knew in 1998 that I'd own a Tayana 37 and sail it around the world one day - this was purely dreaming and loving the image that the Tayana created. So I still looked at Shannons, Passports, and even a Tayana 42. Hell - I went to the Annapolis show two years ago and looked at every Cat on the docks (I also went aboard monohulls like the Gozzard and common production boats)!

We bought a Tayana 37 in March...lol

I absolutely wish we could find classes around here right now, but covid pretty much ended a lot of them. I want to take a diesel maintenance class and a build up my medical abilities beyond the first aid and CPR I know. I think you are really smart to be doing that.

So one last idea for you. Plan several mock trips for your first cruises. I started planning my trip from Texas to MD and discovered I really didn't know jack about planning a multiday cruise or the resources available to do so.

Now I'm playing with last years wind charts and planning trips to MD, trips to the Bahamas for November, and trips to the Caribbean from there. It's helping me get familiar with the process and I'm very glad I did this.
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Old 30-11-2020, 10:35   #30
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Re: Laying out a plan to sail off!

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Taking weather and medical courses are great ideas, i'll have to look into the courses available. Any recommendations for books or online resources related to weather?
Modern Marine Weather by David Burch is the best book on weather. David Burch has a Ph.D. in Physics, so he can get a bit technical, but don't let that scare you away.

Modern Marine Weather, 3rd edition

If you prefer some thing in a video lecture format, I really like this series from Mel Strong of the University of New Mexico. Mel is a great teacher and has a way of explaining complicated topics in a way that is easy to understand. His lecture series isn't specific to marine weather, but general weather and climate.

Introduction to Weather and Climate Short Course

Enjoy!
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