Land home, yes or no?

[theDangerz]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

' There are other financially rewarding and more fluid investments. Maybe the house ashore would be best for those that value the accumulation of "stuff".

More fluid maybe... but more “financially rewarding”? I doubt it.

The real estate market may or may not keep up with the stock market over the same 30years of my mortgage payment - but when you consider that the only money we invested was the down payment and now someone else is paying off the rest of the house/investment for us in our absence... that’s hard (maybe impossible) to beat.

We didn’t keep the property as a place to store “stuff”, we kept it because there’s simply no better way to make long term travel financially feasible than passive income.

I still keep watching the stock market, but I’ve yet to find a broker that will even match my investment 50/50 (though if you know him/her let me know and I’m in!), much less let me invest the 20% down I can buy a property for and watch someone else pay the other 80% while appreciation happens on the full 100% of the investment.

[AndyEss]

Originally Posted by theDangerz

More fluid maybe... but more “financially rewarding”? I doubt it.

The real estate market may or may not keep up with the stock market over the same 30years of my mortgage payment - but when you consider that the only money we invested was the down payment and now someone else is paying off the rest of the house/investment for us in our absence... that’s hard (maybe impossible) to beat.

We didn’t keep the property as a place to store “stuff”, we kept it because there’s simply no better way to make long term travel financially feasible than passive income.

I still keep watching the stock market, but I’ve yet to find a broker that will even match my investment 50/50 (though if you know him/her let me know and I’m in!), much less let me invest the 20% down I can buy a property for and watch someone else pay the other 80% while appreciation happens on the full 100% of the investment.

I also like having a good portion of my retirement savings in real estate, especially since I increased the value of the properties with my sweat equity. The downsides to letting renters pay off your mortgage are vacancies and bad tenants.
Property tax eats up cash flow in desirable areas.

[theDangerz]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

I also like having a good portion of my retirement savings in real estate, especially since I increased the value of the properties with my sweat equity. The downsides to letting renters pay off your mortgage are vacancies and bad tenants.
Property tax eats up cash flow in desirable areas.

Agreed.
Those would be the negatives; but compared to the positives (at least in our experience)... they barely count.

Vacancies (and repairs from bad tenants) are simply a line item in the spreadsheet... and high taxes mean higher income/lower vacancy... so I’ll hardly complain about being in a “desirable area”.

It shouldn’t be discounted that most people don’t realize (or know how to factor in) the magnitude of savings/income that comes along with the simple act of moving out of your home. For most people, their home is simply the largest purchase they will ever make, but as long as they live inside those walls it’s anything but an investment.
The second they move out and hand the keys to someone else, it immediately becomes an investment (likely their largest), and depending on how it’s handled/managed can actually fund the lifestyle that so many here are looking to achieve (and/or provide the flexibility to return if they should choose to change their mind/dreams/goals).

For us... it was the single biggest key to our freedom and without it we would have had to plan another 30years of the 9to5.
To us... that’s as fluid as we need it to be.

[Paul L]

Clearly leveraged real estate can be a great investment. Like anything leveraged it can be a large loss when things go south. If you have the time to recover, which might be 10 years, then you won't loose. A retired, full time cruiser might not have the recovery time, especially if they manged to time the market when it peaks.

[AndyEss]

Originally Posted by theDangerz

Agreed. We're on the same page, and have the same conclusions, but there are some grayer areas in investment strategy I've observed
Those would be the negatives; but compared to the positives (at least in our experience)... they barely count. Everything counts in investing. That's why I'm still working with my accountant today

Vacancies (and repairs from bad tenants) are simply a line item in the spreadsheet... Totally true - but that line item has a very direct bearing on whether you have money flowing in or out of the bank. Me, I've been lucky in my tenants mostly. This past year I took a hit from vacanciesand high taxes mean higher income/lower vacancy... so I’ll hardly complain about being in a “desirable area”. [COLOR="Red"]I'm totally into the rule of real estate investing - location, location, location. What I think I perceive is that taxes are outrunning what rents we can charge, at least in the high tax state where I have my prime rental property (a single family home). Despite an MLS market of ten million people, I actually had to drop rental rates to get a tenant this year. My tenant of the previous three years moved out because they finally bought another home (they lost their first one in the last financial crash - he was a daytrader, she had a normal job). So, between the lower rental rate, the vacancy, tax and insurance cost increases, my income got hammered. Then there was the inevitable plumbing problem- while I'm cruising in my boat 4000 miles and nearly 100 degrees F warmer (the Midwest had a brutal January. I'd tease my friends by sending them pix of us swimming in the ocean, eating ice cream on the Malecon, dancing under the stars at Carnivale at midnight in early Match. One of the better things of cruising on your boat. You can annoy and piss off your friends by showing them what a good time your having.
But I digress - I'm cruising, I can't get to the repair (or even figure out if I have the skill to repair the problem- so I have to pay a plumber sight unseen.
Katching! Katching! Another appreciable hit to my bottom line

It shouldn’t be discounted that most people don’t realize (or know how to factor in) the magnitude of savings/income that comes along with the simple act of moving out of your home. For most people, their home is simply the largest purchase they will ever make, but as long as they live inside those walls it’s anything but an investment. Agree mostly in that - except for those homeowners who use their free time at home to put in substantial sweat equity. As long as you do a quality, code conforming job, your effort will more than likely bring profit in the future when you are ready to sail away and go cruising.



The second they move out and hand the keys to someone else, it immediately becomes an investment (likely their largest), and depending on how it’s handled/managed can actually fund the lifestyle that so many here are looking to achieve (and/or provide the flexibility to return if they should choose to change their mind/dreams/goals).The ability to return when we are finished cruising is most important to me. I have some health concerns, and while I can overcome them, I am happy as a clam living on my boat. But that isn't going to last forever


For us... it was the single biggest key to our freedom and without it we would have had to plan another 30years of the 9to5. Excellent - we should all live and work long enough to be free of economic constraints. I worked, starting at 13y o at my first job for 55+ years (I retired early) and my single family property ownership was a substantial portion of my success.

Moral of the story - your investment results may vary.....nyuck, nyuck, nyuck.
To us... that’s as fluid as we need it to be.

Every success story is good to hear. If we are cruisers, we must have done something right with our lifes.

[Mr B]

If Financial Advisors were so good, Why are the still working for a living,
Gambling with your money,
No matter how much the market fluctuates, Houses still go up in value over the years,

[Mike OReilly]

There’s no doubt a land home can be a great investment, and a source of passive income. But as with all investments, it comes with risk. How large a risk is as variable as housing itself.

While a land home can be all these things, it is also a significant cost. And one thing I understand about balance sheets is you can (usually) achieve your financial objectives by either increasing your revenue, or decreasing your expenditures.

Getting rid of all the costs associated with a land house reduces a lot of expenses.

[valhalla360]

I think without a clearly defined definition of the TYPE OF CRUISING, this poll doesn't tell us much of anything:
- For WEEKEND cruisers, I'm betting almost all keep the house (or apartment).
- For FULL TIME LIVEABOARD cruisers, you will likely be at least 80%, if not mid 90%, who sell the house.
- Those in the middle who cruise for a few months per year, likely keep the house in most cases but not always.

You could easily modify and subdivide these groups and get varying percentages.

Without knowing what percentage of votes come from which group, the overall number means little.

Look at it this way...lets say you take a poll of the average work commute and due to a glitch, it only goes out to people living in Manhattan and Montana...I'd be willing to bet the average is under 5 miles but if you break it down, those in Montana will be double that or more...but the population of Manhattan being larger than the state of Montana, their numbers will drag the average down.

[RaymondR]

I'm 75 years old this year and have lived on a boat since 2001. I have done the job, wife, family, house, family court thing and if I get resurrected I'm staying single, living on a boat and not having anything to do with real estate unless it's investing in brothels. These days fixed assets just make you a big dumb target.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I think without a clearly defined definition of the TYPE OF CRUISING, this poll doesn't tell us much of anything:
- For WEEKEND cruisers, I'm betting almost all keep the house (or apartment).
- For FULL TIME LIVEABOARD cruisers, you will likely be at least 80%, if not mid 90%, who sell the house.
- Those in the middle who cruise for a few months per year, likely keep the house in most cases but not always.

You could easily modify and subdivide these groups and get varying percentages.

Without knowing what percentage of votes come from which group, the overall number means little.

Look at it this way...lets say you take a poll of the average work commute and due to a glitch, it only goes out to people living in Manhattan and Montana...I'd be willing to bet the average is under 5 miles but if you break it down, those in Montana will be double that or more...but the population of Manhattan being larger than the state of Montana, their numbers will drag the average down.

The responses here don’t appear to support your 80-90% assertion Val, but lets be clear. NONE of these polls are statistically sound, so it’s all for fun anyway. At best it provides a very narrow image of a subset of CF users.

The whole 'definition of cruiser’ thing takes us down a different rabbit hole. There are as many ways to cruise as there are cruisers. I purposely left it fairly wide open for people to self identify.

Cruising is defined however you want, but generally refers to living and travelling on a boat for extended periods each year.

[Group9]

We consider ourselves part-time cruisers. We leave on cruises when we feel like it, and then come home when we don’t feel like it anymore.

Under that mode of operation, it’s nice to have a land based home to keep coming back to.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The responses here don’t appear to support your 80-90% assertion Val, but lets be clear. NONE of these polls are statistically sound, so it’s all for fun anyway. At best it provides a very narrow image of a subset of CF users.

The whole 'definition of cruiser’ thing takes us down a different rabbit hole. There are as many ways to cruise as there are cruisers. I purposely left it fairly wide open for people to self identify.

I don't see it conflicting with my assertion as people have been very hit and miss defining how they cruise, so the responses don't support anything.

Yes, it takes us down a rabbit hole and there isn't a wrong way to cruise but poorly worded questions get poor answers that are often misleading.

[wolfgal]

this has been a very informative thread. it has brought a number of mysteries (for future cruisers) into the light.

i am curious to know more about this land home, yes or no question. it could be that, whether folks sell up or rent out the homestead, some cruisers prefer not to ever return to land...

say this is the case, this person feels "at home" aboard the boat and chooses to stay, regardless. we all know that there comes a time when one is not as limber, when one has difficulty getting on and off the boat, etc...

i'm wondering how difficult it is for the cruiser (who, i assume, becomes a liveaboard at some moment) to actually stay aboard his/her water-home as age/sickness creeps in.

i imagine, that ideally, one has a spot in a marina for starters, not too far from food supplies, doc office, friends...

are there many that are planning for this day?

if so, is there a longterm plan that makes sense?

i wonder if 'old cruising friends' get together in remote locations? or if most all folks focus on to getting back within range of their family? surely it depends (as always), but i think it is a valid question since strong friendship bonds happen out there

perhaps this is a new thread in itself. yes, perhaps. would someone with more insight be interested in this question (and formate it better than me).

thanks again, Mike for doing this poll!

[jkindredpdx]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

this has been a very informative thread. it has brought a number of mysteries (for future cruisers) into the light.
...
perhaps this is a new thread in itself. yes, perhaps. would someone with more insight be interested in this question (and formate it better than me).

thanks again, Mike for doing this poll!

Agreed, thanks for the poll Mike, good discussion. Wolf, I think there are a few threads currently touching on your questions.

Despite initial plans for more far-flung cruising, I'm staying on the West Coast, mainly because my Daughter moved back to Oregon and made me a Grandfather. Fortunately, BC, Alaska, and Mexico are within reach and family/friends can join me without too much trouble.

My land home is a simple 900 sq ft cabin, 5 minutes from skiing and paddling, with hiking and fishing outside my door. I'm retired at 64... both cabin and sailboat are paid for, my possessions are few and either home can be closed up and left for months if I desire. My flexibility and endurance are diminishing over time, but I hope my dual mountain/sailboat lifestyle will help keep me active, stress-free, comfortable, and healthy into my 80s. After that I pray I die as far from a hospital bed as possible...

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

...... not having anything to do with real estate unless it's investing in brothels. These days fixed assets just make you a big dumb target.

That's the problem.... While Brothels do have moveable assets, their clientele sure do make for strange bedfellows!
[emoji1]