Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

[hpeer]

I’m following this thread with some interest because someday we will have to retire from sailing I suppose. We are in our late 60’s and doing fine but it can’t last forever. My first thought was to come back to the states and live aboard maybe in the Chesapeake or the NC sounds. Our old marina where we did liveaboard for a while no longer allows live aboards.

So maybe we will settle into Georgetown or Abacos. Or Rio Dulce. Or who knows where. Nothing is jumping out at me at the moment.

[DocBrauer]

Left the USA in 2005. Haven't made it back yet. Finished my circumnavigation two months ago in my 38 foot CaboRico when I got back to Cartegena, Colombia. It can be a lot cheaper to live on your boat if you look further over the horizon. Many examples but I'll throw out one of my favorites. Langkawi, Malaysia. $5 per week to anchor out includes access to dinghy docks, water, showers, and a mail room. Marina available at good rates. Very friendly and active sailing community. Medical care cheap. Lots of other places around the world, including closer to USA, also great.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We don’t like staying in marinas period.

1. We find the checking in and out of marinas to be a waste of time..

2. Don’t like being so close to others we can hear them fart.

3. Enjoy daily swims right off the boat in pristine waters.

4. Don’t need air conditioning in anchorages because we get a daily sea breeze unlike in hot stuffy marinas.

5. Zero daily cost for anchorages

6. Enjoy the solitude and privacy anchorages offer instead of being on display 24/7 in marinas.

To each their own... we prefer anchorages over marinas for many reasons. You prefer marinas because they offer electric hook up for your air conditioner. There’s no right or wrong answer, there’s many ways to cruise.

Here ya go Ken: I completely agree with your approach here. Marinas can be useful but are not a necessity for day to day cruising life for Insatiable II or her crew. And the longer we have been cruising, the less frequent are our marina stays. This trend is somewhat subverted by increasing need for medical appointments in places where anchorage is awkward, dammit!

This may seem "silly" to Sailor Boy, but it is reality to some of us.

Jim

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

This may seem "silly" to Sailor Boy, but it is reality to some of us.

Jim

why would it be silly to me

[CarinaPDX]

It seems to me this is a lot of blurring the lines. There is a difference between a liveaboard, a full-time cruiser, and a summer sailor. The liveaboard "lifestyle" is alive and well, at least here in Portland, and that is the problem. In the past liveaboards were basically water rats, often hoping to go cruising or had come back from cruising and didn't want to move ashore (me). Today liveaboards here are more about affordable housing than lifestyle, although that is also part of it. Certainly the majority of liveaboards here are not cruisers, or even wannabe cruisers. They are often young people just looking for a place to live. Many of the marinas have on their own limited liveaboards to 10% of the slips; a few liveaboards are a good thing but too many and they tax the facilities. By limiting the supply of slips they have been able to increase the liveaboard fee; I am paying $200 on top of the slip and marked-up electricity fees. No doubt part of this is the greed that just seems to increase in the US and elsewhere.

A related category, one I would call Homeless Camping on Derelicts, is a big problem for us. There are between 60 and 80 boats anchored in the Portland area (some liveaboards but most just homeless on the water https://www.opb.org/news/article/wil...s-regulations/) , and they squat on the public docks, or anchor along the river. The occupants have frequently acquired them for free (e.g. Home - Free Boat - Free-Boat.com), don't maintain them, and walk away when they sink or are blown/drift ashore. The resulting pollution and clean-up costs are overwhelming the local authorities (https://www.kgw.com/article/news/loc...f-cb80fe45af34, https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/10...oon/ar-AAF1Xap ). We have laws that require the boats to move regularly, but that is a blunt instrument that punishes liveaboards and is ineffective against the derelicts: the police don't enforce the law for the same reason they don't clear out the homeless camps and crap RVs that park in groups in our neighborhoods - it is just an expensive game of whack-a-mole with no permanent results. Needless to say this group has given living aboard a bad name. It is a mess.

Full-time cruising is a quite different matter. While it may require some planning and compromise I never had a problem finding a place to stay in the off-season. I do get the impression that there are fewer people going full-time cruising, and no doubt popular areas have become more expensive, it is still possible. Summer sailing is still common but again the victim of higher prices.

What i find, at least in the Portland area, is that DIY yards have disappeared and the price of services has increased now without having to compete with DIY. In my years cruising I only paid once for the yard to do a bottom paint, and I still did a lot of my own work. Today the nearest DIY yard to Portland is in Astoria, 100 miles away, and none of the yards here allow staying aboard. When the time comes I will head on down to Astoria.

Greg

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

why would it be silly to me

Being anti-marina "just because" is just being silly.

Your post 27 above... and I don't know why you wrote that,but you did.

Jim

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by resoluute

why indeed my good man$ 2000 per month is incredibly reasonable to tie up to a piece of wood, and at 200 slips $400,000 per month how could it be profitable

Like I said, I applied some pretty extensive analysis to real numbers, you know like the kind that assume actual transient occupancy rates rather than assuming them at 100%, and the cost of waterfront as well as overhead, maintenance, labor... If you haven't run a business I guess it might make sense to assume the best possible revenue picture and ignore everything else when jumping to a conclusion, but I prefer a little more in-depth analysis, it's served me well in the business world so far. My analysis said I would get a better risk adjusted return in treasuries than the marina, but if you've got this all figured out one wonders why you haven't gone out and bought or built a marina at some point in your life?

[accomplice]

I think it is important to differentiate between a marina -- a place where you can rent space at a dock, possibly with water and electricity -- from a boatyard -- a place where boats are maintained.

We generally avoid marinas, but use a boatyard every 2 years to haul out for bottom paint. Most repairs can be effected at anchor without having to haul-out, but a few cannot. With a hookah and support from someone onboard, I've even changed props in the water. Fiberglass work, diesel, electrical, refrigeration, even rigging -- no problem.

In reply to the OP's question, I second the sentiment that it is far more economical to avoid marinas. It also helps if you do the work on your boat yourself.

When we are away from the boat we sometimes have to leave her at a marina. Aside from the cost, there are a couple of other reasons I don't like marinas.

First, our boat has sustained significant damage at a marina (no docks to rub on, no dock cleats to let go, less chance of someone scraping your topsides at anchor or at a mooring). There was one marina where we left the boat for a few weeks. At one point the marina staff called and told me the wind was up, the fenders had slipped up over the dock, and the topsides were rubbing. I asked them to put the fenders down.
Their not-very-helpful response was that they'd look at it when the rain stopped!


Second, in the tropics, we have occasionally been infested with critters when at a dock. We've done the boric acid on the lines but still we sometimes end up leaving port with extra multi-legged passengers.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Your post 27 above... and I don't know why you wrote that,but you did.

Jim

Try and use some reading comprehension. Because what I posted was as you quoted:

"Being anti-marina "just because" is just being silly."

sure has nothing related or in support of your attack in your post of:

"Here ya go Ken: I completely agree with your approach here. Marinas can be useful but are not a necessity for day to day cruising life for Insatiable II or her crew. And the longer we have been cruising, the less frequent are our marina stays. This trend is somewhat subverted by increasing need for medical appointments in places where anchorage is awkward, dammit!

This may seem "silly" to Sailor Boy, but it is reality to some of us."


I'm sorry but I get tired of certain people taking a post and spinning it into something else. Please try to get it right.

[john61ct]

don't feed the trolls, is a good general guideline, takes two to tango

[Exile]

Originally Posted by john61ct

don't feed the trolls, is a good general guideline, takes two to tango

What troll?

[a64pilot]

To put it into perspective, if you were in N Fl today, first it’s hurricane season, so you want to tucked way back away from the open ocean.
Today it was 98 degrees, with a 6 kt wind out of the East, Africa hot and no appreciable wind.
Now I anchored out for six months straight last winter, but anchoring out in 98 degree weather with a 6kt breeze is not my ideal Retirement.
So, we are in a well protected Marina with floating docks and tall pilings.
And shore power for the Airconditioners. We visit family as her Father won’t be with us much longer, do our Dr’s appts, get our teeth cleaned and sit around the pool a lot waiting for Hurricane season to end.

Two things have become apparent in this thread, many are confusing Marina’s with Yards, you don’t do bottom jobs etc in Marina’s.
Plus all the prices quoted are daily transient rates. Average 40ish ft Mono cruising boat can stay in a very nice Marina with all amenities included for less than $1,000 a month, often if your off the beaten path, well less.
Then factor in that your only there for a few months and it’s not but $4,000 or so a year.
What gets expensive is those people that hop from one marina to another paying daily rates.

Met a Lady at the pool the other day that was complaining that she just couldn’t sleep at anchor, I was nice and said once you get some time cruising you’ll sleep well. That offended her, her answer was, well we did the whole loop and only anchored three times, honestly why would anyone want to anchor?
I didn’t bother answer her.

[Simi 60]

98f is only 36c
Warm but far from stiflingly hot.
But, we have lots of shade, overhangs and ventilation, a boat built for the tropics.

[john61ct]

Once you allow your body to get acclimated to aircon, it's very hard to go back to doing without.

[Jim Cate]

I'm sorry but I get tired of certain people taking a post and spinning it into something else. Please try to get it right.

My apologies, SB. I thought when you said that being anti-marina was silly that you meant that it was silly... how silly of me. I'll try to brush up on my reading skills so that I get it right next time.

Until then, enjoy your cruising and your marina stays... it's all good.

Jim