Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by resoluute

We are getting ready to buy another boat after having been out of cruising for 6 yrs, we are in our late 50's and hoping to age out on boat, but wondering from people out there doing it now, if this is a lifestyle on life support. Georgia cracking down on anchoring , solomons, md 1 liveaboard per 100 slips, cost at marinas etc, etc.... we are interested for now in md to west coast of florida we are not looking to stay very long term in 1 marina are prospects much better for regulations etc Guatemala, honduras, etc... anchoring and marinas are of interest

The liveaboard lifestyle is not dying, but it is definitely getting more difficult.

Two reasons are cost and officialdom.
Officialdom first: For a variety of reasons, mostly due to the numbers of derelict or "bum" boats, but also due to mostly misguided concerns about environment, authorities are restricting liveaboards. Yes there are many places where these restrictions have not been applied, yet. But every year more places do put restrictions on liveaboards. I've never heard of a place removing regulations once they have been applied however many places stop enforcing them because that is not easy, fun, or productive. So you will have to search to find places, harbors as well as marinas, where you can enjoy this lifestyle. This will only get worse. At this point is it just an obstacle, not a deal breaker.

Costs: More population means more demand for marina berths, and that will and has driven the price up. Same for haul-out's. Boats are now expected to be more convenient to live aboard, which makes them more expensive to buy and maintain. Yes, you can live away from marinas, anchoring out almost all of the time, and you can opt for a simpler boat, this will save you money. We out of marinas for months each year and we have a simple (yet comfortable) boat. But the vast majority of liveaboards spend much of their time in marinas on boats with many conveniences of home which definitely costs more now days. I am shocked that people find $1.65/ft per day to be a normal charge for a marina berth. For me this (>$2000/mo) is pretty hard to swallow. Maybe the average liveaboard now days has a higher income level.

So the days of no restrictions and cheap costs are fading into the past. This is changing the liveaboard style, not killing it.

If you want to liveaboard, go ahead, it's not dead yet, but just recognize the issues you will have to deal with.

Just a couple of comments: Someone who cruises for six months, never going into a marina, but who hauls out and stores the boat on the hard for the other six months a year, is not avoiding marinas. And maintaining a boat and a house somewhere simply doubles the cost. Likewise for someone who owns two rather nice boats over 50ft. One, for sure, is in a marina. Nobody leaves an expensive boat at anchor for most of a year, and they likely pay someone to look after it when they are not there.

[rmlarson1098]

Originally Posted by resoluute

We are getting ready to buy another boat after having been out of cruising for 6 yrs, we are in our late 50's and hoping to age out on boat, but wondering from people out there doing it now, if this is a lifestyle on life support. Georgia cracking down on anchoring , solomons, md 1 liveaboard per 100 slips, cost at marinas etc, etc.... we are interested for now in md to west coast of florida we are not looking to stay very long term in 1 marina are prospects much better for regulations etc Guatemala, honduras, etc... anchoring and marinas are of interest

Yikes. Reading some of the responses here has me ready to start bawling!
Maybe the lifestyle has slowed down, maybe it's dying. So what? It's not dead, nor will it be anytime soon. The cruising life is what you make of it; if you don't care for the rules and regulations just move on to a place offering more freedom, and less regulation. Those places are out there, you'd just have to be ready for the difficulties that can arise from less 'security'. Isn't that part of the adventure? If the S.E. USA doesn't want us, we don't want them, and we'll move on to the MANY more welcoming places around the world. Honduras (and Nicaragua) a little sketchy? Stay well offshore and sneak into the Rio Dulce.
Lots of options - the world pretty much is your oyster.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

missed a (.)...Marina rates in Marathon, Fla are about as high as I've seen. $2.25-2.50/ft...

not only did I have to walk 10 miles uphill both ways to my school...I had to this in sub-zero temps wearing only flip-flops and t-shirt...I also had to fend off pirates and wild animals....and lotsa crazy wimmen !!

the things you do when you're young and crazy....

Wentworth By the Sea Marina in Portsmouth, NH, one of the very few marinas that can accomodate a 64ft deep draft 90ft bridge clearance yacht. $9,000 per month for a crappy 65ft slip next to the pumpout station and fuel dock. Yes, you read that correctly.

Another good reason why we anchor out.

[garychurch]

$16-$25 per per day? We are cruising from Washington, DC and now in Grenada. Nominal Marina rates $2 US per foot per day. Cheaper on average for weekly, monthly or semi-annual or annual rates. We are in Port Louis Marina in St. George's Grenada for the hurricane season. Arguably one on the finest marinas in the Caribbean - less than a $1 a foot a day.

Again, $16-$25 per foot per day?

[MicHughV]

...a current scourge for the liveaboard cruiser/sailor....who actually leaves the dock....is the limited anchoring spots that that don't have " mooring fields"

I'll give you a classic example : St. Augustine.

This used to be (still is) a popular place for cruisers/sailors to hang out.

In bygone days, you could anchor most anywhere and stay as long as you want, but not so today.

Mooring balls as far as the eye can see now inundate the place.

And don't even think about dumping the head contents over the side.....your friendly pump out guy will be glad to take care of that for you....for a " fee" off course

Besides the daily " mooring ball" fee.....you will also be clipped for a " dinghy" fee to enable you to tie up to the City dock.

Ok, St. Augustine has contrived to make every available square inch of that city into a vehicle parking spot, a " metered" parking spot now, and this has spilled into the marine area. St. Augustine City fathers would place a " fee" on the air you breath there, if they knew how..

Fernandina the same.

I'll give you another one : Marathon, Fla Keys...Boot Key Harbor..

It's not that the liveaboard life is not available, it has just changed.

The " mooring ball" scourge has even spread to the B'mas. Favorite anchoring spots now host a field of red balls.

True, you can still find spots that have open anchorages, but it's not the same.

It really isn't !

to really enjoy the B'mas now, one must travel to the less visited islands...Ragged's, etc...

Not trying to be sour grapes here, but the liveaboard lifestyle is not what it once was. Seems like everyone has their hand out for some or other " fee".

Our local gym now requires a " registration" fee....what that is for, who knows, besides pad the owner's pocket.

The " fee" has become a " racket". Any opportunity to collect more $$ will be used to extricate another dollar from your wallet.

The so-called " environmental fee" that many marina's charge...what the hell is that ??

Oh, and my favorite.....outboard motors typically don't like regular pump gas, due to the 10% ethanol in there....area marina's will clip you $4.25/gallon for non-ethanol fuel....

and the beat goes on.....

see ya on the water !!

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Chotu

This is a great sub topic.

Can anyone come up with a boat that doesn't need marinas?

I'm sure stumped.

The boat hardly ever needs a marina, it’s the people on it. It’s more about making life sunstainable with devices such as water makers, electric generating devices, etc. If you had water, electricity, and a garden on board you would never need to get off.

[PappysSailing]

Lots to think about here... good info. I will just add that I recently bought a shorter (33ft) shallower draft (3' 8"), lower bridge clearance (37 ft) full keel boat (Cheoy Lee Offshore) for sailing in and around the Gulf of Mex and couldn't be happier. Can go into hundreds of different places that were impossible in the 5 ft 7 in draft boat w the 50 foot mast above water. This means hundreds of new opportunities to throw an anchor and spend the marina money on other things. Cheers, Pappy

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by garychurch

$16-$25 per per day? We are cruising from Washington, DC and now in Grenada. Nominal Marina rates $2 US per foot per day. Cheaper on average for weekly, monthly or semi-annual or annual rates. We are in Port Louis Marina in St. George's Grenada for the hurricane season. Arguably one on the finest marinas in the Caribbean - less than a $1 a foot a day.

Again, $16-$25 per foot per day?

I'm sure they mean per month

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

...a current scourge for the liveaboard cruiser/sailor....who actually leaves the dock....is the limited anchoring spots that that don't have " mooring fields"

I'll give you a classic example : St. Augustine.

!

I didn't read the rant beyond this because it's not true! I've been up and down the East Coast 3 times and around Florida to Mississippi the past 3 years. There are places to anchor for free all over the place. Mooring fields are at at towns and allow a lot more people to stop and visit those places than would be possible it only a few always anchored there and/or delick boats were hogging the limited space.

And yes I've anchored at St Augustine numerous times.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Not just asking you, Simi 60, but...

So careening for bottom paint or just get out the hookah and scrub every week or 2?.

Come out at a boatyard every 18mths or so for two weeks
Hookah in between

No zincs or thru hulls?

If required do it when out

What about when refrigeration or other important systems break or need replacing?

Refrigeration is household off the shelf 240v so no issues.
So far, anything else that breaks or needs replacing I buy online, take our tender (4.4m aluminium wide body with 30hp ob) in to collect and fit myself or take in to be repaired.
We have had our windlass motor and rawwater pump die in a semi remote location and needed them rebuilt ashore, dinghy trip, ferry service and couriers needed to do that one but done within a few days.

Do you fuel up or strictly sail?

7000 litres of diesel lasts several years but we top up the tanks every 6 mths and top up the 5000 litre water tanks while there.
2 hour in and out.
Supplement water with 200 litre bladder in tender.

General refits?

On the hard during the two weeks we are out or on the water as we cruise

New anchor chain ferried out to the boat too?

44 gallon drum and forklift under boat while on the hard, press button and winch it aboard.

Repowering?

Our engine type regularly get 30,000 hours out of them before rebuild
The vessel was repowered a few years before we bought her and has about 5000 hours on her now.
At our current rate of usage that engine should still be going strong long past my use by date.

[endlesspursuit]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

...a current scourge for the liveaboard cruiser/sailor....who actually leaves the dock....is the limited anchoring spots that that don't have " mooring fields"

I'll give you a classic example : St. Augustine.

This used to be (still is) a popular place for cruisers/sailors to hang out.

In bygone days, you could anchor most anywhere and stay as long as you want, but not so today.

Mooring balls as far as the eye can see now inundate the place.

And don't even think about dumping the head contents over the side.....your friendly pump out guy will be glad to take care of that for you....for a " fee" off course

Besides the daily " mooring ball" fee.....you will also be clipped for a " dinghy" fee to enable you to tie up to the City dock.

Ok, St. Augustine has contrived to make every available square inch of that city into a vehicle parking spot, a " metered" parking spot now, and this has spilled into the marine area. St. Augustine City fathers would place a " fee" on the air you breath there, if they knew how..

Fernandina the same.

I'll give you another one : Marathon, Fla Keys...Boot Key Harbor..

It's not that the liveaboard life is not available, it has just changed.

The " mooring ball" scourge has even spread to the B'mas. Favorite anchoring spots now host a field of red balls.

True, you can still find spots that have open anchorages, but it's not the same.

It really isn't !

to really enjoy the B'mas now, one must travel to the less visited islands...Ragged's, etc...

Not trying to be sour grapes here, but the liveaboard lifestyle is not what it once was. Seems like everyone has their hand out for some or other " fee".

Our local gym now requires a " registration" fee....what that is for, who knows, besides pad the owner's pocket.

The " fee" has become a " racket". Any opportunity to collect more $$ will be used to extricate another dollar from your wallet.

The so-called " environmental fee" that many marina's charge...what the hell is that ??

Oh, and my favorite.....outboard motors typically don't like regular pump gas, due to the 10% ethanol in there....area marina's will clip you $4.25/gallon for non-ethanol fuel....

and the beat goes on.....

see ya on the water !!

Don't know about up north but Marathon last I checked was about$300.00 a month for a mooring ball. That includes dingy dock with showers and laundry room. Dock space at the Sombrero Marina & Resort was also about $300..00 a month in the summer. Although that was a couple of years ago so its gone up some for sure. Pump out in the keys is still free as far as I know, because they don't want you dumping overboard. Actually all the Keys are a no discharge Zone.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I am shocked that people find $1.65/ft per day to be a normal charge for a marina berth. For me this (>$2000/mo) is pretty hard to swallow. Maybe the average liveaboard now days has a higher income level.

So first off, I did the math earlier in the thread, turn out that's exactly the same cost at the '80s when you take inflation into account. Second, I took a long detailed look at the numbers when looking at buying a marina. No one is getting rich on $1.65/foot transient rates, in fact I passed on the opportunity because the current returns don't account for the highly cyclical nature of the business which requires you store up for lean years a bit during the good years like we're in now. So it's strange to be "shocked" at what the financials work out to for that line of business, any more than one would be "shocked" that you can't buy a new 2000 square foot house for $25,000 any more or that you can't buy a candy bar for a nickel. Hell, it's $50/night, $1,500 a month to stay in a Motel 8 off some random freeway in Kansas, why would one expect significantly cheaper for about the same number of square feet, but you can't stack them on top of each other and you're in prime waterfront? It's shockingly cheap, actually, to get about 600 square feet of waterfront to yourself plus facilities for $2,000 a month average cost when you're paying by the day with no obligation!

[resoluute]

why indeed my good man$ 2000 per month is incredibly reasonable to tie up to a piece of wood, and at 200 slips $400,000 per month how could it be profitable

[sailorboy1]

anyone paying the daily transient rate for a month is a fool and a poor planner, you need to find places with a monthly rate

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

So first off, I did the math earlier in the thread, turn out that's exactly the same cost at the '80s when you take inflation into account. Second, I took a long detailed look at the numbers when looking at buying a marina. No one is getting rich on $1.65/foot transient rates, in fact I passed on the opportunity because the current returns don't account for the highly cyclical nature of the business which requires you store up for lean years a bit during the good years like we're in now. So it's strange to be "shocked" at what the financials work out to for that line of business, any more than one would be "shocked" that you can't buy a new 2000 square foot house for $25,000 any more or that you can't buy a candy bar for a nickel. Hell, it's $50/night, $1,500 a month to stay in a Motel 8 off some random freeway in Kansas, why would one expect significantly cheaper for about the same number of square feet, but you can't stack them on top of each other and you're in prime waterfront? It's shockingly cheap, actually, to get about 600 square feet of waterfront to yourself plus facilities for $2,000 a month average cost when you're paying by the day with no obligation!

That's fine, I'm just not rich enough to be a livaboard I guess.

I understand the business model for a marina operator. It's tough. But that just validates the conclusion that living aboard is more expensive now. In 1996, when we left the USA, we paid $240/month for 42 ft boat in a good saltwater marina. I don't know how to run the numbers on that but I don't think it comes to $2000/month.