Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You prefer marinas because they offer electric hook up for your air conditioner.

Where did I write that I prefer marinas???????????????????

Please don't use things I didn't write to spin a story.

[Pegu Club]

We are in our second year of full time cruising, we have done New England to George Town Bahamas, heading further south this year. We for the most part are self sufficient and anchor out the vast majority of the time. We use marinas as our diesel, gas, and water stations, occasional stays for maintenance or just a bit of a change of pace. There were over two hundred and fifty boats in George Town when we were there for about ten days, and many more throughout the rest of the Island chain. From what we saw during our first year is that there are quite a few folk enjoying the life style, all in their own ways. You guys have the experience already so have at it. As you said it has only been six years since you where out there doing it, not that much has changed. As needed just by pass areas that don’t suit your needs.

Fair winds,

[sdowney717]

Its like this, living aboard, people think your too poor to own a real house, and you should be living in government assisted housing units. And some people dont want to go to their boats at the marinas and see home like activities going on, it bothers them. Some of them live like derelicts. The 'prescence' of them being there all the time, like lurkers watching everything.

Some localities dont like it because they know some liveaboards will dump everything into the water.

I know for a fact 2 recent marinas I was at, one posted a city notice saying no liveaboards allowed (Hampton Virginia), the other I was told when getting a slip they dont allow living aboard. Not that I would.

Yet that Hampton marina had at least 25% of the slips being lived in. The city notice was disregarded by the marina owner, so just for show when the city paid visits. My slipmate there threw all his trash into the water. At low tide you could see piles of food tins all round his boat. And he was always there, everytime I went there, he also had no car, not that he was unfriendly.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I love this topic.
Here is my 2c.

I built my first boat back in the late 70's, launched it the early 80's.
Back in those days a lot of people were living the " dream", and homebuilt boats could be seen on many a driveway.

Those were " the days"...it really was...you could sail anywhere, anchor anywhere, no mooring fields, you could still get a 12 month cruising permit in the B'mas for around $25. There were no marine patrols chasing you away from an anchorage...no Coast guard boardings....and marina fee's were around 0.50c/ft.

There was no GPS and people had to actually learn some rudimentary sailing and navigation skills. Back in the day, we had working lighthouses, beacons, WOM ( High Seas operator) was around...If you sailed off shore, you learned to use a sextant.

People that were sailing were a certain " breed" if you wish. Mass marketing of sailboats had not arrived. The Morgan OI 41 was considered to be " the" ultimate liveaboard boat, especially in the charter trade, which was still in it's infancy then.

Then Loran came along.....it had limited use....but still....it provided a newbie with some navigational aids...then Satnav arrived.....better, yet, not so good.
Then GPS arrived. As well as sat phones, ...refrigeration, air conditioning, cell phones, etc, etc, etc.

Boats became more modern and more expensive.....but sailed less...."floating condo's" they were termed. The modern day sailboat is a marvel of " modern" day conveniences...a/c...microwave ovens..the list is endless....every convenience you want...electric toilets...you name it....

With all the conveniences came all the new rules and new restrictions. Mooring fields, requiring a daily fee, limited cruising permits, holding tanks requiring a pump out fee, limited anchorage spots...the list is long....Marina fees now running $16-25/ft per day, if you can still find marina's. Many marina's have been converted to " condo's" where you can actually " buy" the slip.

Yes, the liveaboard lifestyle is a dying lifestyle. Yes, you can still find a few spots here and there that support a liveaboard community...but they are far and few between

Many area marina's allow only a limited number of " liveaboards" but charge accordingly.

I'm sure this topic will have ardent supporters on both sides of the fence. The liveaboard lifestyle is still attainable, but nothing like the " old days".

You have to have realistic " expectations". Walk around the docks and talk to other liveaboards and get their take on the matter.

Besides all of the above, yearly maintenance, haulouts, etc, require an arm and a leg..and a huge wad of cash.

Last but not least, is " hurricane" insurance...

All told, it's not an " inexpensive" lifestyle at all. At a marina, you may have to park a long way from your boat, do your laundry elsewhere, fetch your mail from a post office...etc..etc..etc..and your marina neighbor is an unknown.....and he/she will be a mere 5' from you.
When it rains, it may be a long, wet walk to your car.....with a handful of groceries...

Ok, I have lived this lifestyle for a long time, and have endured the many ups and downs, but I have grown into it. Starting from scratch today, will take a giant leap of faith.

Welcome to the club !!!

I bet you remember when you could buy a candy bar for a nickle and you had to walk 10 miles to school, uphill both ways...kids these days!

So there's this thing called inflation. Convert your $.50 a foot in 1980 to today and you get $1.65 (https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc...1&year2=201906) which is right around what you pay at most Marina's at least here in the Chesapeake, maybe closer to $2.00 but the amenities are probably a lot more than you got in 1980 as well. As for $25/ft/day, what universe is that in again? Are you talking Monaco during the Grand Prix or something? I think $4.50/ft is the highest I've seen traveling from Miami to Annapolis and that was for oversize docking for a cat on a 3 day weekend! Not sure if there's some selective memory going on here or are we just talking about some corner of the world I haven't been to?

[sailorboy1]

Personally in the last 3 years of living and cruising on my boat I haven't found the real world to be aganist liveaboards anywhere near the level it gets written about here. I think that's because threads here get over weighed by discussions basically about "bum" boat liveaboards that are the root of the push by places to outlaw "liveaboards".

Boaters on maintained well kept boats don't have real problems finding places to live.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We don’t like staying in marinas period.

1. We find the checking in and out of marinas to be a waste of time..

2. Don’t like being so close to others we can hear them fart.

3. Enjoy daily swims right off the boat in pristine waters.

4. Don’t need air conditioning in anchorages because we get a daily sea breeze unlike in hot stuffy marinas.

5. Zero daily cost for anchorages

6. Enjoy the solitude and privacy anchorages offer instead of being on display 24/7 in marinas.

To each their own... we prefer anchorages over marinas for many reasons. You prefer marinas because they offer electric hook up for your air conditioner. There’s no right or wrong answer, there’s many ways to cruise.

Not all harbors are alike.


I agree with you about the U.S. style marinas which are just big floating RV parks.



But I love Northern European guest harbors, town quays, fishing harbors. I love the ancient town quays in the Greek and Turkish islands. I love taking a shower, putting on clean clothes, and going to a nice restaurant once in a while, and I love exploring some of these places by land. You meet interesting people in some of these places, too. Solitude all the time is boring for some people, like me.



I don't have any particular preference for anchoring or using a harbor; not all anchorages are as cool as others, nor is every harbor necessarily good or bad. An ideal cruise for me contains a mix of anchoring in beautiful spots, and tying up in nice harbors.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Personally in the last 3 years of living and cruising on my boat I haven't found the real world to be aganist liveaboards anywhere near the level it gets written about here. I think that's because threads here get over weighed by discussions basically about "bum" boat liveaboards that are the root of the push by places to outlaw "liveaboards".

Boaters on maintained well kept boats don't have real problems finding places to live.

I agree. I haven't noticed it, either.


We need to be careful what we mean when we talk about "The Lifestyle". Do we mean being basically boat bums, living with almost no money and mooching off free services whenever we can scrounge them? I'm not necessarily for or against this "lifestyle" but it's not something I engage in, and it's not something I necessarily see society being obligated to support. I do not think this can be called "cruising", either, especially if one doesn't move much.



If "The Lifestyle" means cruising around from place to place on a reasonably well kept boat, even if it's modest, and reasonably patronizing local businesses along the way -- I have not seen anyone anywhere in the world being hostile towards that, and I have not observed any drop in popularity, either. On the contrary, the prevalence of cheaper and cheaper mass produced boats seems to be making this accessible to more and more people, which is fine with me.

[MicHughV]

missed a (.)...Marina rates in Marathon, Fla are about as high as I've seen. $2.25-2.50/ft...

not only did I have to walk 10 miles uphill both ways to my school...I had to this in sub-zero temps wearing only flip-flops and t-shirt...I also had to fend off pirates and wild animals....and lotsa crazy wimmen !!

the things you do when you're young and crazy....

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

missed a (.)...Marina rates in Marathon, Fla are about as high as I've seen. $2.25-2.50/ft....

That's quite expensive, of course, and might sway many people towards anchoring.


The most expensive guest harbor in the Baltic I've ever seen is the Old City Marina in Tallinn, Estonia. Costs me €65 a night for a 54' boat. But it's right in the old city, it's a beautiful facility, shopping next door, power, water, and even a lovely sauna included. I don't mind paying that.


Most other places are much cheaper, typically €20 or €25 a night, including electrical power and often including a nice sauna.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

missed a (.)...Marina rates in Marathon, Fla are about as high as I've seen. $2.25-2.50/ft...

heck that's only the upper end of "normal" daily transient rates

[lvictorlucas]

For mid east coast Florida (across from Orlando) try Eau Gallie Yacht Basin and tell Karen Victor sent you.
You can do your own work/bottom (DIY) or hirer local people with no hassles or extra charges. Walk or bicycle to discount marine, Publix, Walmart, Ace Hardware, Subway, restaurants, bars and very good alternator shop. I used to live on my boat there and the club house has TV, refrigerator and is air conditioned! There are about 20 boats anchored out in the Indian River within walking distance with free public dinghy dock.
Eau Gallie Yacht Basin

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Being anti-marina "just because" is just being silly.

I'm currently in a marrina for hurricane season and for the electric to the run the AC and it's costing $16/day. This past winter I stayed in a marina that cost me $11/day. At each of these there was no practical place to anchor.

Where are you that you get these rates? It sounds interesting.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Where are you that you get these rates? It sounds interesting.

I'm currently in Gulfport MS at the municipal marina. The place is only maybe 1/4 full. And yes it's in the hurricane zone, but I decided it was better to be in one place during the season with a plan than wandering around.

[rmesfo]

Originally Posted by geoleo

Many "lifestyles are dying" and many are dead. There are few escapes to real freedom anymore anywhere.

Amen to that brother or sister! And it has happened very quickly during the last 25 years. There are still a number of places to go but medical, safety and decent supplies are not predictable.

Maybe that is a good definition of real freedom.

[sdowney717]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Where are you that you get these rates? It sounds interesting.

My current Marina in Seaford, VA, Thomas Marina, is like $130 a month with no charge for electric or water. And I have twin 30 amp power at my slip. They don't want liveaboards, but I can spend nights there and run AC, but they did tell me they don't want it running all the time like when I am not there. Its privately owned and they live on the property. This is a very nice boating area on Chisman Creek right off the lower Chesapeake bay. Dare Marina is right across the creek on other side.

I got my slip in dead of winter when marina business is slow. I just pay for the whole year , every year. Its also not a big marina and some people wont like it because its not a resort marina. Its in York County, and the area is well off and usually nothing bad happens there, not like some high crime ridden city. I like it because its quiet most of the time, more traffic on weekends. I can go a whole day and not see anyone on the dock, especially off season.