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Old 17-08-2019, 09:29   #136
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
I understand because I'm from the NE and pretty much every marina becomes a winter storage location. But once south where boats aren't hauled out each year it's a lot different.

But the whole "I don't use/I use marinas" thing has nothing to do with " the live aboard lifestyle" unless only the "lifestyle" of anchoring out all the time is the only "style". There are a lot more people using marinas and/or a regular combo of anchoring/marinas than just the "I only anchor out". You don't hear about those as much because here on CF you are somehow not a cruiser unless you are an anchor out low cost type of cruiser. The majority of cruisers measure their months as being good/bad as to whether they had a good time and not whether they didn't use a marina and/or spend any money.
Well said. I'm an anchor out type because I don't like having to talk to people on docks. I measure good times in my boat by how quiet it is, how few people I need to talk to and how few wakes there are. I spend this time with my girlfriend and we do go ashore but not all that much.

When I'm in my RV I do the same thing. No campgrounds because they are annoying to stay in. When I'm in my RV the boat is in storage. At yep... A marina. Or was that a boat yard? Ha ha ha.

Seriously though, the last post above with all the definitions only makes some of it worse because he includes moorings in the "Anchorage" section. Most moorings I've ever seen are rented to you by a marina. So moorings need to go into the "Marina" category. Unless privately owned which is more rare for a cruiser to have.

I regret my side conversation here. Apologies to the OP.

In any case, it does seem to be a dying lifestyle to some extent through the ever increasing loss of freedoms to over regulation, taxation, laziness of many to take on physically demanding tasks and overall economic plight (decimation of the segment once called the middle class).
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Old 17-08-2019, 09:46   #137
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

Actually I included mooring under anchorage, as by all means the daily life on a mooring ball is very similar to living on the hook.
Only diffence someone else puts the ground tackle in and hopefully takes responsibility for that if they get money for it.

On a mooring usually you do not get the amenities of a marina/harbour (at least over here in Europe).

I think liveaboard in a very broad definition is not necessarily getting less.
What is getting harder though is living really free on the hook. To many regulations are put up in to much places and also over regulation is getting into cruising (like imposing safe manning rules and the like. Guess we can really do without being nannied all the time by bureaucracts.)

It's still possible, but not sure in 10-15years.
Let's enjoy it while we still can.

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Well said. I'm an anchor out type because I don't like having to talk to people on docks. I measure good times in my boat by how quiet it is, how few people I need to talk to and how few wakes there are. I spend this time with my girlfriend and we do go ashore but not all that much.

When I'm in my RV I do the same thing. No campgrounds because they are annoying to stay in. When I'm in my RV the boat is in storage. At yep... A marina. Or was that a boat yard? Ha ha ha.

Seriously though, the last post above with all the definitions only makes some of it worse because he includes moorings in the "Anchorage" section. Most moorings I've ever seen are rented to you by a marina. So moorings need to go into the "Marina" category. Unless privately owned which is more rare for a cruiser to have.

I regret my side conversation here. Apologies to the OP.

In any case, it does seem to be a dying lifestyle to some extent through the ever increasing loss of freedoms to over regulation, taxation, laziness of many to take on physically demanding tasks and overall economic plight (decimation of the segment once called the middle class).
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Old 17-08-2019, 09:49   #138
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

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I'm an anchor out type because I don't like having to talk to people....
FTFY, sir.
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Old 17-08-2019, 11:41   #139
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

It's not just a cost issue, but to the extent you approach fulltiming liveaboard, it can make a huge difference as to whether you can afford to continue indefinitely.

Cruisers cruise.

Sitting in a marina, is to me maybe not the opposite of cruising, but similar the longer you sit there.

Hopping from marina to marina is cruising yes, but personally I would hate that lifestyle.

Same on land. An off-road capable rig that can support living off the grid on BLM land for weeks at a time is IMO infinitely more enjoyable than being dependent on using shore power, driving from "RV Parks" to campgrounds all the time.

Those that demand first-world comforts, want to replicate all the mod cons of S&B living on their boat, fine, you do you.

But that's not for me, regardless of wealth.
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Old 17-08-2019, 12:00   #140
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

So true...
Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
It's not just a cost issue, but to the extent you approach fulltiming liveaboard, it can make a huge difference as to whether you can afford to continue indefinitely.

Cruisers cruise.

Sitting in a marina, is to me maybe not the opposite of cruising, but similar the longer you sit there.

Hopping from marina to marina is cruising yes, but personally I would hate that lifestyle.

Same on land. An off-road capable rig that can support living off the grid on BLM land for weeks at a time is IMO infinitely more enjoyable than being dependent on using shore power, driving from "RV Parks" to campgrounds all the time.

Those that demand first-world comforts, want to replicate all the mod cons of S&B living on their boat, fine, you do you.

But that's not for me, regardless of wealth.
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Old 17-08-2019, 13:24   #141
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

See here is an example of how someone's idea of what cruising is or isn't defines the rules.

If you live on your boat you are a live aboard. If you live on the boat and move it around from place to place you are a cruiser. Everything else are details of your chosen lifestyle of being on the boat and changes nothing.
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Old 17-08-2019, 13:46   #142
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

I guess, its like that old Beatles Song
'You know my name
Look up the number'
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Old 17-08-2019, 14:13   #143
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

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...beats the hell outa old folks home dying lifestyle..
I certainly hope that liveaboard cruising is not a dying lifestyle - since I am just getting started at it (1.5 years now) and am fully committed at this point (no remaining shore ties). I really have no idea what I'd do otherwise. Meanwhile, having a ball at it and meeting others doing the same - not the majority mind you, but enough folks keeping the dream alive to keep things interesting fer sure.

And yeah, the boat is a very good way to stay far away from hospials or old folks homes - no place I wanna be.
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Old 17-08-2019, 14:53   #144
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

Actually people dropping out makes things better for those remaining.

Facilities and available spaces in nice locations won't be expanding, so lower demand is a good thing.
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Old 17-08-2019, 15:56   #145
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

We are so effluent, we went back to doing both. Now I'm feeling like time is going by kinda fast and I want to be on the water more, not less. The land place will be a needed vacation.
If I spent more time on the boat than on land, I would be a liveaboard. Now it's exactly 6 months each and I want more..
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Old 17-08-2019, 16:51   #146
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

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We are so effluent
Watch out for no-discharge zones
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Old 17-08-2019, 16:55   #147
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

She made me angry.

That simple question made me mad.

Within her question I saw the questioning of my liveaboard lifestyle.

We had just kayaked to shore, filled up two Jerry cans of water at the dock, paid our 20 cents and kayaked back.

So what did she ask?

"Do you like to live this?"

What the f... I thought. That was easy. It was exercise. I didn't even have to take the Jerry cans off the kayak and haul them 200 meters up the hill to the local village watering well. (I loved those trips since it was even more exercise, and I got to practice the local language. )

But she didn't see what I was doing this same way. All she saw was how inconvenient it was compared to her pampered lifestyle of just turning on the tap and getting unlimited water. Cold and hot mind you! And, this.. this question was coming to me from a Couchsurfer who supposedly is used to living on the cheap.

Someone already mentioned the cheap airfairs these days and how convenient it is to just jet around the world instead of slowly sail it.

It is more than that. It is also the proliferation of cheap accommodations through places like Couchsurfering and AirBnB. Further the wealth of the internet keeps you upto date on reviews of every place to ensure you never experience a cold shower, a room without perfect air-conditioning, and don't have a fantastic cheap local restaurant right out your door. Always, always these come with the temptation that the next near perfect experience is just a quick flight and Grab Car away.

Factors like these have helped ensure another possible aspect of the cruising lifestyle has died a quick death. That aspect was trying to make the cruising kitty go farther by excepting the illusive paying guest.

Unless you have a perfect vessel in top notch condition providing every shore convenience and can swiftly transport your fussy, busy paying guests to the perfect remote beach at the crack of dawn your marketing efforts will forever be tainted with bad reviews. Bad reviews which will forever come up when someone Googles your boat's name.

"OMG The captain couldn't anchor at the beach we wanted to go to because the water was so deep, and then he took us to another beach where there were wild monkeys. What a waste of our vacation time. He should have known this in advance!"

If you asked what is the single greatest contributing factor that caused the death of the liveaboard cruising lifestyle I would give you a two letter answer.

AC

Live aboard cruising sailors tend to select warm areas to live. Nearly everyone with any means who lives on shore has been pampered with AC so long that the great majority of people have never spent a night without it. They likely have never stepped into a car without it. Further, as the girth of the average person has grown, the average person needs it even more to prevent the insides of a vessel from smelling like a cheap...

As a consequence of the demand for AC the absolute minimum size and expense to operate a liveaboard vessel has grown. Further few vessels have the space for enough solar panels to run power hungry AC units. That means a vessel must either tie to the dock or run a generator. The expenses of either or both of these quickly depletes any remain funds after the initial now very expensive vessel has been purchased.
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Old 17-08-2019, 19:10   #148
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

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Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
She made me angry.

That simple question made me mad.

Within her question I saw the questioning of my liveaboard lifestyle.

We had just kayaked to shore, filled up two Jerry cans of water at the dock, paid our 20 cents and kayaked back.

So what did she ask?

"Do you like to live this?"

What the f... I thought. That was easy. It was exercise. I didn't even have to take the Jerry cans off the kayak and haul them 200 meters up the hill to the local village watering well. (I loved those trips since it was even more exercise, and I got to practice the local language. )

But she didn't see what I was doing this same way. All she saw was how inconvenient it was compared to her pampered lifestyle of just turning on the tap and getting unlimited water. Cold and hot mind you! And, this.. this question was coming to me from a Couchsurfer who supposedly is used to living on the cheap.

Someone already mentioned the cheap airfairs these days and how convenient it is to just jet around the world instead of slowly sail it.

It is more than that. It is also the proliferation of cheap accommodations through places like Couchsurfering and AirBnB. Further the wealth of the internet keeps you upto date on reviews of every place to ensure you never experience a cold shower, a room without perfect air-conditioning, and don't have a fantastic cheap local restaurant right out your door. Always, always these come with the temptation that the next near perfect experience is just a quick flight and Grab Car away.

Factors like these have helped ensure another possible aspect of the cruising lifestyle has died a quick death. That aspect was trying to make the cruising kitty go farther by excepting the illusive paying guest.

Unless you have a perfect vessel in top notch condition providing every shore convenience and can swiftly transport your fussy, busy paying guests to the perfect remote beach at the crack of dawn your marketing efforts will forever be tainted with bad reviews. Bad reviews which will forever come up when someone Googles your boat's name.

"OMG The captain couldn't anchor at the beach we wanted to go to because the water was so deep, and then he took us to another beach where there were wild monkeys. What a waste of our vacation time. He should have known this in advance!"

If you asked what is the single greatest contributing factor that caused the death of the liveaboard cruising lifestyle I would give you a two letter answer.

AC

Live aboard cruising sailors tend to select warm areas to live. Nearly everyone with any means who lives on shore has been pampered with AC so long that the great majority of people have never spent a night without it. They likely have never stepped into a car without it. Further, as the girth of the average person has grown, the average person needs it even more to prevent the insides of a vessel from smelling like a cheap...

As a consequence of the demand for AC the absolute minimum size and expense to operate a liveaboard vessel has grown. Further few vessels have the space for enough solar panels to run power hungry AC units. That means a vessel must either tie to the dock or run a generator. The expenses of either or both of these quickly depletes any remain funds after the initial now very expensive vessel has been purchased.
Sounds like you're upset you can't get people to pay for a berth on your boat. You also come across as a bitter, angry old man. Most people don't like to be around bitter, angry people let alone pay to be stuck in a small space with them. Maybe, just maybe, that's the cause of your problem, not whatever you were ranting about?
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Old 17-08-2019, 22:14   #149
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

Pbmaise is correct, the small crewed boat charter business is a bear

25 years ago, they were billed as adventure cruises and amenities were sparse and the guests were tougher!

That's when I went to work on big boats with unlimited budgets and a professional crew that outnumbered the guests 4 to 1.

My job as the captain was so easy designing magical mystery tours in exotic locations and making sure the engineer remembered what temperature a returning guest preferred to have the marble floors in their bathroom set at, when they stepped out of the shower.

Life was tough

I can only imagine how much worse these days with all the soft demands that pb talks about for his size boat.
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Old 18-08-2019, 00:02   #150
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Re: Is liveaboard lifestyle a dying lifestyle

I include my "rant" here as I view the paying guest to have been one of the major sources of revenue that used to enabled many extended cruisers. Further, it is the increased regulations of such services coupled with demands of paying guests that have created a double whammy effect.

Not only are there fewer cruising sailors willing to live aboard, one of the primary means of sustaining an extended cruising lifestyle is largely gone.

It is true that more new revenue sources have replaced the paying passenger to a degree, however, these employments tend to require good high speed internet connections that are not available in remote areas.

One opportunity I think that fussy paying passengers have helped to create is a glut of large vessels that have outlived their working life in the high end charter market.
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