IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

[MicHughV]

well, once you get going, you are likely to meet many others that think and feel like you do...lifetime friendships are common amongst sailing folk....you'll be amongst your own kind, and you will be surprised at how many sailors bring along children of all ages...your kids will ferret them out in no time..you won't have to do a thing....cruising kids can sniff out another cruising kid from a mile away..

[kmacdonald]

There are more boats out on the Chesapeake Bay than I've seen in years. It's still no where near what it was 15 years ago. I guess people are using their boats more with the threat of Covid.

[Notyetsinking]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

Notyetsinking, we are in our 50's, retired and not working from the boat. We cruise full-time very low-budget the entire East Coast, migrating to the Florida area in the winter for warmth, and back up North in the summer to escape the heat and hurricanes.

Last summer we went up the Hudson into the Erie Canal and into Lake Ontario, then into the 1000 islands and Montreal before making our way back down through Lake Champlain and down the Hudson. We slowly worked our way down to Marathon/Boot Key Harbor eventually for a month or so by the end of January before turning North again as COVID-19 panic was beginning to hit.

Before COVID-19 the East Coast was a great cruising grounds with thousands of places to anchor and many neat cities and towns to visit, as well as wilderness areas far from others.

No real overcrowding problems anywhere except a few hotspots near bigger cities and most of that is only caused by derilict boats cluttering up those areas -often taking the very best spots.

If you have the cash to retire early and do it you could cruise the east coast for a decade or more and still not see it all. Every trip we spot many new places we mark down to maybe visit next time. The cruising books and Active Captain official anchorages are a good start but there are many places that they miss.

If you have a bigger budget than us you can stop and stay at marinas more. We rarely do but have never had issues finding an opening for us -but we have a 35' monohull with shallow draft. We have been put in a 30' slip in the past in <5-foot water surrounded by pontoon boats and small center consoles so that attribute helps.

If you buy a mongo wide catamaran or extra-long mega yacht it may limit what is available. As long as we can get in with 4'3" draft, 10' beam, and 48' air draft we can do it.

Once they kick COVID-19 there is no reason you can't cruise and enjoy the east coast and even go over to the Bahamas or further in to the Caribbean if that is your scene. But expect crowding in the more popular spots, especially at certain times of the year.

Wow that sounds like quite the life you guys I have, it is so nice to here of people filling out their life dreams! As for me, I am targeting boats on the high performance side of the spectrum, as my plan here is likely to be sailing around for a year or two before moving into a place and doing racing rather seriously again; so I think a draft of 7 ft is less than likely for me. I know there will be some areas off-limits with this, but my interests are further north where draft I don't think is such an issue, and I think as is I won't have enough time to explore the east side in 2 years.I think I will certainly be doing a decent amount of harbor hopping as I really want to see all the different coastal towns and cities, though my real target is exploring the little islands of the coast of Maine

[Lou-In-NJ]

I had time to read and think about more responses. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed even by commenting on someone else's post. I'll continue to read and post my thoughts about what folks have said, as time permits.
-Lou

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Boats and airplanes, it's the same story. You buy it, you're excited, you use it a lot and for many, after the initial excitement phase is over, they don't use them as much and eventually not at all.

True Cpt Mark. I think someone has to be committed to a lifestyle, at least for a certain period of time, to make it happen. And of course the big thing is not having a spouse who shares in your vision/passion.

Originally Posted by waterman46

There are still lots of boats in the good anchorages. But I also notice the boats seem to be bigger now. We did the same Mexico cruise in 2000 and then in 2018 and in 2000 I saw more smaller boats with kids on board. Now I see most boats are over 40', there are more humongous catamarans and I see fewer children.

Interesting observation waterman46. I think if you examine the graph thinwater posted on the first page of this thread, you'll likely conclude it's largely the same folks as 18 years ago, they just have the means to have gotten into bigger boats. This may also mean there may be plenty of used 40'+ boats available if and when I'm ready to get something bigger in retirement.

Originally Posted by DMCantor

We have cruised in the Caribbean for each of the past 10 winters. Over that time we have certainly seen the number of cruisers increase, and by a lot. This is especially true in the Windwards. The average age has always been pretty high, the vast majority of the cruisers we encounter are retired, and finding cruising to be a fairly economical way to spend their time. At the same time, the number of bareboat charters has also grown tremendously. On our first trip to the BVI, more than 20 years ago, we anchored with 3 other boats in the bight on Norman island - no mooring balls, no bars, just peace and quiet. Now, you can just about walk across the bay on the charter boats.

DMCantor, it sounds like you may be seeing folks opt to charter at a destination, rather than own and sail there?

Originally Posted by Culwatty

Well I am UK based, 31 and just doing the boat up to leave and I cant wait to live at anchor! Will be able to work remotely if everything goes to plan! Not an exact answer I knkw but I hope it helps ��

Good luck Cluwatty; one of the Youtube cruisers talks about how it's hard to get new gigs when you're so remote and sometimes disconnected for days or weeks at a time. If you could, when you get going, you might consider posting your work experience while cruising. I for one would find it interesting to hear about it, and maybe some pre-retirees will get some good insights. Good luck.

Originally Posted by CarlF

My observations are that boats are bigger. Cruisers are older. Electric winches, reliable windlasses, and furling mainsails have contributed to both trends. But if you include both powerboat cruisers and sailboat cruisers, I think cruising has grown. “Loopers” didn’t exist 20 years ago.

CarlF, you and waterman46 both say boats are bigger. Funny, I never had any interest in powerboats; it always seemed as different as recreational motorcycling and bicycling...completely different experiences on two wheels or on the water...

Originally Posted by IslandInfedel

It’s the same lines with hunters, rafters, and interest in exploring the outdoors, outside of following a Rick Stevens guide book. I’m not sure as to why, maybe it is society valuing comfort and security over everything, maybe it’s all the tech, maybe it’s how fat everyone is getting, maybe a combination of all of the above
Well that’s a interesting, if non factual, view on it.

IslandInfedel, I'm not sure where the ocean.jedi post went, but to your point first, I think a lot of younger people may be adventure averse...all the helicopter parenting from the '90s, onward, now showing up in those people's values and past-times. But to ocean.jedi's point about other countries being more guarded, has this changed over the decades? And has it become unreasonable to travel to some countries because of visa requirement and entry fees? I don't think too many people will find it hard to get on their boat and leave the territorial waters of the U.S.A., but what reception is found in the places people are going?

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Whichever way you define cruising, now there are more cruising boats in all popular destinations. Hence we can say cruising is booming, not busting. That the boats mostly stay put and their owners attached to local bars is not something related to cruising but rather to modern day predominant lifestyle. b.

Understood barnakiel; Maybe cruising, docking, and then sitting on the bar stool for a couple of years in some "foreign" port town, beats being in a domestic condo, looking at your grandkids pictures on Facebook.

Originally Posted by Chotu

It seems to be getting more and more crowds in the various harbors, so I’m going to say increasing. However, for my 3 decades of sailing, I’ve always been and STILL AM the youngest guy at the marina. Ha ha ha.

WOW Chotu, if you're still feeling like you're the youngest after 30 years, you need to fill in some details!

Originally Posted by barnakiel

A.k.a. 'immobility-morbidity' syndrome.
To be on a cruising boat, in a popular location. This is the 2020 cruising dream. Not going anywhere, just being - like in Kosinski's story ... Going requires effort. Going implies getting off the couch.
They have mobile phones now, so why would anybody walk?
People today are not interesting in exploring anymore.
Example:
We are anchored off Ste Anne, the grounds for trekking, walking are beyond prime there. We go to the windward side and back, which is maybe a 20 miles' walk. We meet NOT A SINGLE SOUL on the tracks - NO-BODY. So, there are hundreds of boats anchored, maybe a thousand people or more, but as soon as you get just beyond the waterfront limits, there is nobody exploring the landscape. Which makes me all too happy as I have all the island to myself. The opposite situation (cruisers growing legs and learning to walk) would be a truly terrible thing. barnakiel

WOW, so people an even be couch potatoes on the water!

Originally Posted by Oceanride007

Well the world is getting more the same, hidden gems have been exploited, seeing paradise second time is not the same, fish numbers decreased, back in the day you use to be connected to the stars via a sextent now we disconnected.
I really enjoyed backpacking on the edge of new frontier years ago, now little new frontier is left. I know where some is, I hope you do to.

I have a similar feeling about domestic U.S. travel...seems like everywhere you go, the same restaurants, stores, etc. just with different scenery around the given strip mall. One thing I use as a bit of a measuring stick, is how good the bread is...

Originally Posted by tomfl

COVID-19 aside it is harder to cruise than it use to be. I still remember my first trip to the Bahamas in 1959. My Dad sailed from Miami to Cat Cay and checked in. All he needed was his Florida driver's license. He bought some Cuban cigars there. On the return trip it was an easy five minute check in at the customs dock; again trivial paper work. Today you need a passport and a permit with a not trivial cost (still think the $US300 is a good deal, but it is a lot more than it use to be even adjusted for inflation).

There was a fast boat from Miami to Bimini I took with friends in high school and again no paperwork to go ashore; this in the early sixties.

Same goes for things like marinas. It use to be easy to find slips in Miami, now there is a massive waiting list at prices that are shocking. While it is possible to find inexpensive blue water cruisers it is not so easy for a noobie to know which boat is sound and which is a disaster waiting to happen.

One other big factor is what I call fear. More than once I have taken someone out on my boat in what I call ideal weather, flat seas and moderate winds where the boat sails itself. But once we got out of sight of land they spazed out and were terrified. In one case it was not on my boat but theirs. I can't really explain it but maybe Jimmy Buffet explained it best with a line in one of his songs; "the seas in my veins".

I've heard that about getting in and out of countries. It certainly is a consideration when deciding to live the lifestyle. As far as being off-shore, I can see where that can freak people out, but maybe there the same folks who feel irrationally confident when they're near land...I've been in fog, near shore, with no radar, and LORAN-C, that was scarier in my book.

[ben2go]

When I was 19, all I wanted was big fast glass with twins, a big love studio, and place to wash off afterwards. That all went away when I found out costs. I also fell in love with the idea of building my own boat. I built small boats in my teen years for pond and lake fishing. Growing up, I had a lot of friends and family that had boats so no need to buy really. Then I got sucked into the miserable experience of marriage and kids. By the time I started to see the light at the end of the tunel, I came down with a series of health problems that I am still dealing with. I had amassed a wealth of knowledge and boat plans. Last year I decided on the boat and started clearing an area on my property to get started and damn my health. First week in March 2020, two weeks before the the SHTF, I was making the deal to get my first shipment of boat building lumber. The next week I got the call, nope ain't happening this year matey. No one else around deals in the lumber I need that is close enough to deliver or for me to pick up. So I turn my eye toward buying a fixer upper. The plan was to sail her around the eastern US and make repairs and changes as needed to cruise the world. After my son goes into the USAF in June 2021, I'll be free to roam the world. I'm just not sure if the world will be open by then. I'm still boatless at 43 but hopeful, I think.

[Lou-In-NJ]

Originally Posted by ben2go

When I was 19, all I wanted was big fast glass with twins, a big love studio, and place to wash off afterwards. That all went away when I found out costs. I also fell in love with the idea of building my own boat. ...SEE POST 80 for FULL QUOTE

Ben2go, I have had visions of building my "dream" whatever (boat, car, plane, house) as well, but I've stuck to projects that are complete-able in relatively short time periods. Like redesigning the pool area of the house we bought. I rented a backhoe/front-loader and expanded the area, moved the pump house, built a new pool house, designed and build a new privacy fence, built a pergola (arbor) over a new patio I poured, and built a stone retaining wall to add a third seating area. All this was done over a couple of months, and while they were all improvements to the pool area, I didn't get the feeling that any phase of the project prevented me from enjoying the space until it was all done. That's not the only thing I've taken on around the house, but I can tell you that when I was in my 20s, I had a couple of projects that sat under tarps for several years until I realized that my interests and focus had changed, and I wasn't willing to commit the time and money to complete them. I think creative and imaginative people can get involved in white elephants because of an ideal they have in their mind, but in my case I figured out that, that had to be tempered with the reality of a professional commitment to my clients, and needing to be engaged and focused on different things, for their sake, and of course, to not "force" my wife and kids to engage, or watch me as I spent every free hour and dollar, working on my white elephant. In this case, I think if someone spends the same amount of time looking for a used boat that would suit their general layout desires and needs, it is likely modifiable/customize-able to get them very close to what they imagined they wanted to build for themselves; and I think it's a much more efficient way to realize a dream. You're 80% there with basic systems in-place, with a good hull and rigging, and someone else essentially absorbed the full cost of materials and engineering. Please let us know what you do.

[rslifkin]

Never forget: Perfect is the enemy of good. It applies to buying / building boats too, as there will always be something out there that might be better.

[MicHughV]

I started dreaming about going sailing when I first read the adventures of Robin Lee Graham and his rtw trip on Dove....back in the 60's I recall.Then out of the blue, I got a Bruce Roberts catalog in the mail, and there it was, the Roberts 38 ketch. I was hooked, I didn't know a ketch rig from a stick in the ground....but...I had to have this boat !!! But how ??....I was broke, in school, nowhere near an ocean...but I kept the dream alive, and some years later, against all odds, began to build it...it would be the beginning of a 40 year love affair with the ocean...so keep the faith...

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Lou-In-NJ

Ben2go, I have had visions of building my "dream" whatever (boat, car, plane, house) as well, but I've stuck to projects that are complete-able in relatively short time periods. Like redesigning the pool area of the house we bought. I rented a backhoe/front-loader and expanded the area, moved the pump house, built a new pool house, designed and build a new privacy fence, built a pergola (arbor) over a new patio I poured, and built a stone retaining wall to add a third seating area. All this was done over a couple of months, and while they were all improvements to the pool area, I didn't get the feeling that any phase of the project prevented me from enjoying the space until it was all done. That's not the only thing I've taken on around the house, but I can tell you that when I was in my 20s, I had a couple of projects that sat under tarps for several years until I realized that my interests and focus had changed, and I wasn't willing to commit the time and money to complete them. I think creative and imaginative people can get involved in white elephants because of an ideal they have in their mind, but in my case I figured out that, that had to be tempered with the reality of a professional commitment to my clients, and needing to be engaged and focused on different things, for their sake, and of course, to not "force" my wife and kids to engage, or watch me as I spent every free hour and dollar, working on my white elephant. In this case, I think if someone spends the same amount of time looking for a used boat that would suit their general layout desires and needs, it is likely modifiable/customize-able to get them very close to what they imagined they wanted to build for themselves; and I think it's a much more efficient way to realize a dream. You're 80% there with basic systems in-place, with a good hull and rigging, and someone else essentially absorbed the full cost of materials and engineering. Please let us know what you do.

As a person building a boat I think this is wise advice.

I could never find the boat I wanted in a price bracket I could afford all at once. So, I built.

I have a better boat than any money could buy now, but still have years to go.

Hard to say if sacrificing part of your life to the build is worth it or not. However, we do waste a lot of our lives on other things like tv and commuting and stuff like that. Meeting with clients is also a similar waste of life.

It’s not enjoyable to build a boat. At least for me. It’s done for a purpose. Like meeting the clients.

I was actually ready to give up and not continue but my girlfriend really wanted the catamaran and that was enough push to keep me going.

[barnakiel]

I started thinking now that Microsoft has added virtual landscapes to its flight simulator, and while we have so many members who cruise wildly and post their edge, blood chilling experiences on Youtube - why not use our common skill and resources and build a



CRUISING SIMULATOR


???


I mean, people log into CF, chose a destination, lift the Rocna anchor (Rocna could sponsor the servers and some coding perhaps?) and sail away in their virtual Lagoon (hey, Lagoon, remember I mentioned you first!!!).


Once virtually there, they could drop the Rocna (Rocna is so well built it can be used twice!) then deploy their hypalon AB dinghy with Yamaha four-stroke (5 years warranty on materials !!!) and plane to the beach to virtually sip their Cuba virtually libre.



Ah!


Imagine this!


We must, absolutely must, build our CRUISING SIMULATOR (CF logo mark and all copyrights protected).


Anyways, if we do not, our kids will do it for us. They are no longer watching dolphins play at the bow. They are too busy Twitting and influencing other influencers.


It is Covid time! Let's get to work! CRUISING SIMULATOR!


I can throw in some coding and some visuals with blue water, coral beaches, etc.


If we care about cruising, we must take it to another level.



What do you say?


barnakiel

[MicHughV]

Chotu, It took close on 3 years to build my boat. To this day, I can say, it was probably the 3 happiest years of my life. Many ups and downs indeed. I didn't have a choice, if I wanted to go sailing, I had to build it as I could not afford to buy one. Sailing was and is a lot of fun, but building a dream out of thin air belongs in a league of itself. I wrote a book about how it all began....let me if you are interested.

[BlackHeron]

Some people actually enjoy building boats. What you may feel is a waste of time and money which is holding you back from achieving your ultimate dreams may actually be a crucial PART of their own dream.

If you suck at working with your hands and feel it is no fun at all refitting a boat or building one up from basically a bare hull, then just go buy a complete boat somone else already built. You likely will never understand the joy in which the build process itself brings to some people and the sense of accomplishment it can instill on a boat owner.

[Lou-In-NJ]

Originally Posted by Chotu

...

Originally Posted by MicHughV

...

I have to say that I completely laud and admire anyone who has taken on any project of this magnitude by themselves. For me, I decided that I was more comfortable with modifying and improving, than designing and building; and again as for me, I would worry about the luster and allure of design/build would wear-off, and I would windup feeling like Chotu at some point, but with a wife who wouldn't be nearly as encouraging as a girl friend!

It's funny MicHughV, my 94 year old WWII Tin Can Sailor neighbor says the best years of his life were the 27 months he spent getting shot at in the Pacific!

Originally Posted by barnakiel

...

Hillarious! I could go to work, come home, and find out I only made 25 NM in 10 hours, start drinking and hope for better conditions tomorrow!

[MicHughV]

when I started building my boat....I barely knew which end of a hammer to hold..I built my boat out of steel....had never welded in my life either.
I'm the perfect example of...if I can do it....so can you...

[Mike OReilly]

This is purely anecdotal, but I've personally known at least three people who started a boat building project, and who have never (yet) finished. Some have gone on for decades now.

While I laud anyone who undertakes such a project, it's definitely not for me. I spend enough time just maintaining my 'good old boat.'