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Old 25-07-2020, 16:53   #31
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

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Originally Posted by Oceanride007 View Post


(...)



now little new frontier is left. I know where some is, I hope you do to.

+1!


Me too!


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Old 25-07-2020, 16:54   #32
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

Where does that chart on page one showing cruising ages come from, what's the sample and methodology?

In marinas a lot of the cruisers I have met have been old(er) retired people. Out and about I've met people more my own age in their 20s and 30s. Normally living on the cheap and sailing around the Med and across the Atlantic.

Like me these are the type of people that won't be seen in sailing clubs, won't be buying new boats, possibly not even buying through brokers, won't be buying or even reading sailing magazines, have zero interest in racing.

Just want to have a home, and sail/move it around fun or exciting places. The majority of poeple on this forum are based and/or cruise in North America. I don't know about the states, but the Caribbean isn't exactly cheap, nor does it have anything like the nightlife and party atmosphere of Europe, so would be another reason the younger cruisers aren't out that way. Central and South America would be a different story.

In any case with that in mind, how would these people ever be included in some of the surveys referred to on the first page of this thread?
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Old 25-07-2020, 17:26   #33
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

That is an interesting graph and question. It is a question we have been wondering ourselves. We are in our late 20's early 30's and are actively looking for a bluewater boat to begin cruising.

We've heard from many folks that the majority of people we would meet on the water would be older. From the charters we've sailed in the Caribbean, most of the people we've encountered on other boats have been much older than us. Though not a necessity, it would be a nice thing to have in common sailing and cruising with others in our age range.
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Old 25-07-2020, 17:54   #34
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

In the last 20 years as I have been more active in cruising I have noticed larger and more expensive boats in and around the popular cruising grounds: Caribbean, Mediterranean. And along with size comes cost. This seems to have eliminated many of the younger not so affluent cruisers. it does seem, however that the cruisers in the Med are younger as a whole than those in the Caribbean. I think there is a different agenda for Europeans taking longer vacations and spending more on them. It seems to me that other than this Covid year, cruising has been getting more and more popular as I have found it harder to find good uncrowded anchorages.
My take as I cruise into my mid 70's finally with enough money to by my dream boat.
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Old 25-07-2020, 17:56   #35
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

In my mid 70's I am always looking for younger crew to help me sail. So I guess I'm helping to bring the demographics around.
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Old 25-07-2020, 17:59   #36
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

I think this is due to the comfort and security being above l else phenomena.

Cruising without 2 “bathrooms” with full stand up showers? Don’t have a full entertainment area like the rear of newer large catamarans, well that’s akin to bum living conditions for many today.

Heel over 15 degrees, you might get a divorced, get a gunwale wet and now you might be in the market for a shrink for the hysteria of such a traumatic event!!

Not many sub retirement age people can afford a new 40+ catamaran that looks like the inside of a ikea furnished condo, now we add the funds to support cruising it, you’re talking a VERY small number people outside of very white collar and Silicon Valley types.

Sadly for me, like many here, I have a hard time feeling normal while being this new age “normal”
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Old 25-07-2020, 18:46   #37
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

I'm always bemused by the "we need to get more folks out sailing" thoughts so often heard here. Unless one is selling stuff or services to sailors/cruisers, what advantage is gained by further crowding our waters and anchorages. With waiting lists at many marinas, mooring fields chockers, and good anchorages filling up, w hy on earth would one want to encourage more sailors?

On the other hand, there are still cruising grounds where any desired degree of aloneness can be had. Perhaps not near major population centers, but accessible to those who want to be alone at anchor.

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Old 25-07-2020, 18:47   #38
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

I guess that I am really going to dent the "bell curve".

I am interested in getting started sailing, with an eye to cruising after developing some skills, as I approach 60.
I am looking for a pastime/hobby (obsession?) to replace motorcycles and race cars in my life, as my body doesn't "bounce back" as quickly or as completely as it used to.

I'm no stranger to boats, grew up on various lakes in my area and was pulling water-skiers at the ripe old age of 12 years old. Canoing/kayaking were and still are an interest.

I've been lurking for a while, and enjoying learning from the members here. Reading quite a few "how to" books also. Trying to figure out which boat to buy is a bit daunting, but I have a list of about ten manufacturers and models ranging in the 30'-37' range.
I love the looks of a cutter, but sloops seem to be the majority. I hear people say yawls have advantages under sail, but haven't seen anyone who articulated what said advantages are.
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Old 25-07-2020, 18:49   #39
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

i've been involved in sailing for 60 years or so, including at board level in major yacht clubs. during this time i've seen a fair bit of change and the main ones are ;

- racing numbers have declined steadily
- boats have got bigger
- competence levels are falling
- cruising numbers (as a percentage of involvement) are increasing
- growing number of affluent active retirees
- more folk coming to sailing later in life

these changes have lots of implications but in general my impression is cruising numbers are increasing (* definition of cruising can affect results)

cheers,
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Old 25-07-2020, 19:01   #40
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I'm always bemused by the "we need to get more folks out sailing" thoughts so often heard here. Unless one is selling stuff or services to sailors/cruisers, what advantage is gained by further crowding our waters and anchorages. With waiting lists at many marinas, mooring fields chockers, and good anchorages filling up, why on earth would one want to encourage more sailors?

On the other hand, there are still cruising grounds where any desired degree of aloneness can be had. Perhaps not near major population centers, but accessible to those who want to be alone at anchor.

Jim
hi jim

very much understand your sentiments, and fortunately this part of the world is not as crowded as elsewhere !

the only reasons i can think of to encourage more cruisers are
(1) increased volume might bring down some costs
(2) increased numbers may lead to more political recognition

either way, i suspect some of the social changes going on in the world (eg growing / aging population) mean it going to happen whether we encourage it or not

however an aspect that i do strongly believe we should all encourage is youth participation. get kids off the streets & couches and on to the boats !

of course some of them will eventually turn into cruisers but you and i won't need to worry about that !

cheers,
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Old 26-07-2020, 06:22   #41
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

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That is an interesting graph and question. It is a question we have been wondering ourselves. We are in our late 20's early 30's and are actively looking for a bluewater boat to begin cruising.

We've heard from many folks that the majority of people we would meet on the water would be older. From the charters we've sailed in the Caribbean, most of the people we've encountered on other boats have been much older than us. Though not a necessity, it would be a nice thing to have in common sailing and cruising with others in our age range.

That's quite easy, you just start up a Facebook group and then follow the others.


While indeed the numbers seem to suggest 'majority are older people', it is in fact more like a lot of old, and then many young - just very few middle aged people as they are busy making money.


So worry not, it should be very easy for you to stay withe young ones.


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Old 26-07-2020, 06:25   #42
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

As a thought on the age thing, we're fairly young (late 20s), and that comes with some limitations for cruising. Work doesn't provide unlimited vacation, and while I have a job that I can do from basically anywhere with internet, she doesn't. And work is necessary to afford the boat, house, etc. So we don't get to travel as much as we'd like and instead spend a decent portion of the season doing weekends and not straying too far from home. And then we have to plan where to go in the available time for longer trips.

For anchoring vs marinas, to me it depends on where we're going and what the marina costs are. If it's going to be miserably hot outside or we want to do a bunch of things on land in that place and a marina isn't too expensive for a couple of nights, we'll do it. Otherwise, we're quite happy to anchor in many places. Nothing beats waking up on a calm morning in a pretty anchorage. Fortunately, we've got a couple of places close to home that fit the bill, so it's not uncommon for us to go out on a Friday night or Saturday morning and stay out for the whole weekend. Unsurprisingly, out of the whole marina, we're probably one of a small handful of boats that even does that. Many of them never stay on board overnight and many certainly wouldn't think of doing it anchored out somewhere.

Unfortunately, the current boat doesn't carry enough water, as that's always the first thing we need to come in for unless we're covering a lot of miles (then it becomes fuel). So we're in no way equipped to go weeks without stopping into a marina at some point.
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Old 26-07-2020, 06:45   #43
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

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Originally Posted by mikedefieslife View Post
Where does that chart on page one showing cruising ages come from, what's the sample and methodology?...

The charts describe the age of boat owners and they are so labeled. The source of the data is given.
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Old 26-07-2020, 07:28   #44
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

I think that our thoughts 'to get more folks out sailing' have little bearing on how crowded or not, destinations are.


The crowds are caused not by how many people sail (or more correctly: cruise, because few cruisers sail a lot) but rather by how many people own boats.


How many people sail? And how does it matter? I am yet to find it crowded on any passage. There is one thousand boats anchored at island A and another thousand at island B, but any given day only a dozen will cross the narrow 20 or so miles stretch between these islands. 'Because it is very rough'.



Today people will own a city house, a cottage, three cars in a family, AND then a boat (better yet, a cat).



So the crowds are more like many cars in a huge parking lot. Nothing to do with how many of us sail.



As long as people are after owning more toys, the crowds will grow. There is no way out of the situation. And the population ageing or not has nothing to do with this either. Owning more and more stuff does.



For some odd reason, people will insist on having objects that they only need two weeks each year.



Cruising should be banned and people should be chartering more. Popular anchorages should be converted into huge marinas with relevant shore-side entertainment infrastructure.


I hope one day the governments in the Caribbean and elsewhere will discover the simple truth that they can make much more money on the visitors who stay in bungalows rather than those who 'arrive in their OWN boats'.


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Old 26-07-2020, 08:51   #45
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Re: IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

I would also add.


Cruising is EVOLVING.


I bet there will be more and more power cruisiers every year, fewer sailing boats (in proportion, not as an absolute number).


Imho the future of cruising is in power cats. Think of a typical Lagoon - ex. that useless mast and sails thing.


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