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Old 09-03-2020, 17:37   #1
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Insurance for older ship cruising the world

Looking for a yacht insurance for our intended world trip I contacted Pantaenius, because they present themselves as the European insurance company for long journeys.
However, it turned out that it is not possible to insure my ship, a 1989 Catalina 34, because of its (age and) value. A minimum value of 80,000 is required for the Carieb and 100,000 for the Pacific. It seems that this is a phenomenon of recent years, because a large reinsurer has withdrawn from this market.

Checking with various insurers provided the same answer. Due to age and/or value, the ship cannot be insured for these destinations.

Does anyone have the same experiences? Or rather, does someone have suggestions for insurers who can offer insurance?
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Old 09-03-2020, 18:19   #2
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

We are having no luck finding insurance for the exact same reasons you mentioned. Our boat is older (1987) and is only valued around 40k. We have contacted multiple agents and tried every company we could find contact information for. We're transiting the Caribbean currently, and have completely struck out on any insurance solution.

After reading a few threads here on CF it seems that many people are experiencing this issue.

I'd love to hear anyone else's experience searching for insurance for an older and less expensive boat.
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Old 09-03-2020, 23:58   #3
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

@tommycook,

Your best bet is to go through an insurance broker, who will find someone who can sell you liability insurance. I think you'll have a very hard time finding hull insurance. It seems to be the way the industry is going.

However, given the COVID-19 epidemic, you should probably wait 2 years before trying to leave the US, for good. If you're in the Caribbean now, you should be looking at places to spend the hurricane season, because travel bans and quarantines can be anticipated for at least 18 months.

Ann
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Old 10-03-2020, 00:37   #4
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

Just get liability with a boat that value. You don't need anything else. You can fix any basic problems that arise and if you sink it, you sink it.
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Old 10-03-2020, 05:50   #5
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

I went through this about a year ago. Pantaenius (through a broker) would not sell me just liability and the broker said no one else would either. It became a moot point when the broker said *nobody* would sell me insurance as a solo sailor, period.

He said that the marine insurance landscape changed dramatically after Irma and Dorian given the losses the industry took.
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Old 10-03-2020, 07:15   #6
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

I would love to generate a list of brokers who will actually sell liability-only. My suspicion that it is the brokers, not the underwriters, who are the real barriers to this product was recently confirmed in another insurance thread by an IMIS broker.

The simple fact is, there's not much profit in brokers writing these policies. So most brokers don't. But some clearly do, so it would be nice to come up with a list.

I conducted an insurance survey with CF and SN members back in May 2017. Part of it asked about liability-only converage. At the time about 15% of respondents reported having liability-only. I recall a more recent CF poll which asked similar questions and there the number was up around 30% (maybe someone can find that thread?). So my sense is that more people are turning to liability-only coverage as comprehensive insurance becomes more expensive, and more limiting.

Anyway, it would be useful to have a list of brokers people can turn to for liability-only coverage.

Here's the data from my 2-year-old survey. It includes some brokers, but it is pretty limited, and now pretty old.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Liability-only.pdf (47.3 KB, 53 views)
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Old 10-03-2020, 07:30   #7
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

It would be nice to generate a list of brokers and underwriters and what they do and do not accept. Value/age of the ship, cruising area's, liability only, hull-insurance, exclusions, etc
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Old 22-03-2020, 11:52   #8
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Just get liability with a boat that value. You don't need anything else. You can fix any basic problems that arise and if you sink it, you sink it.
Interesting, when I asked my ins company to extend my cruising radius beyond the Bahamas, they applied "actual value' to the premium. Which I think means 'anything they can get for it.' Better than nuthin'.
They did ask once more about my experience, so ... I sent them my sea papers. (I ran a 98 ton crewboat for un-rep)
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Old 22-03-2020, 18:38   #9
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

I'm in the process of purchasing a boat, but I'm new to boat insurance. I'm fine with liability only. The marinas we've talked to require 300,000 liability. Does anyone have recommendations on companies to contact? Any thoughts on yearly insurance cost for liability only? How about tacking boat insurance on to my auto policy (I have progressive). The boat in question is a 30 foot S2.
I was about to ask about this, but I figured it would be ok to piggyback on this thread instead.
Thanks!
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Old 22-03-2020, 18:49   #10
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

Here is an idea I just thought of as far as liability only is concerned.

Could we get a bunch of people here, say by region i.e. US, Canada, Europe, OZ etc., to present ourselves as a block of potential clients to a broker who will deal with us as a group, so as to make his time more worthwhile? I'm sure there can be found one or two who will not turn away business from a few dozens of clients at once.
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Old 22-03-2020, 19:22   #11
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

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Originally Posted by Tonali99 View Post
Interesting, when I asked my ins company to extend my cruising radius beyond the Bahamas, they applied "actual value' to the premium. Which I think means 'anything they can get for it.' Better than nuthin'.
They did ask once more about my experience, so ... I sent them my sea papers. (I ran a 98 ton crewboat for un-rep)
An actual cash value policy generally provides less coverage than an agreed value policy, but typically at a lower premium cost. An ACV policy provides coverage up to the current market value of the vessel in the event of a total loss, taking into account depreciation and the condition of the boat at the time of the loss.
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Old 22-03-2020, 19:22   #12
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
Here is an idea I just thought of as far as liability only is concerned.

Could we get a bunch of people here, say by region i.e. US, Canada, Europe, OZ etc., to present ourselves as a block of potential clients to a broker who will deal with us as a group, so as to make his time more worthwhile? I'm sure there can be found one or two who will not turn away business from a few dozens of clients at once.

That seems like a pretty good idea. Maybe CF can be a way to organize clients into groups.
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Old 23-03-2020, 06:11   #13
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

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Originally Posted by CamWrenRoo View Post
I'm in the process of purchasing a boat, but I'm new to boat insurance. I'm fine with liability only. The marinas we've talked to require 300,000 liability. Does anyone have recommendations on companies to contact? Any thoughts on yearly insurance cost for liability only? How about tacking boat insurance on to my auto policy (I have progressive). The boat in question is a 30 foot S2.
I was about to ask about this, but I figured it would be ok to piggyback on this thread instead.
Thanks!
It's to bad there aren't ads for boat ins like there are for cars. I think you'll be doing a lot of research. I had once bundeled with my home and vehicle insurer.
But since the kids wouldn't run away from the wife and I decided to. So joined BoatUS. Been with them for 20 years and several different companies. Last year they switched once more and to my surprise, it was Geico! Same as my truck. No bundeling here though. But it does answer the query about getting a bunch of boaters together. Anyway, just my experience, not an ad.
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Old 23-03-2020, 19:27   #14
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

It seems silly to have full hull insurance on a boat worth $40K on a world cruise. When I had a boat with that kind of value, I just figured a total loss would be a "suck it up."

And for a 30 or 40 year old boat, an "actual value" policy is not worth the money you'll pay for it. They are happy to "add it on" because they'll pay you next to nothing in the event of a total loss.

For coastal cruising in the USA you'll find both Gieco and Boat US offer good policies, although they can be expensive if you are based in an area with high storm risk. For long distance world cruising... good luck.
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Old 24-03-2020, 08:34   #15
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Re: Insurance for older ship cruising the world

Like I said, 'actual cash value' can be deceptive. Like before or after the incident. Probably better if it sank so there's wiggle room on value. If by chance it's trashed on a reef, well there ya have it. What's it worth to ya now? I also said I've no intention of as you stated, "world cruising".
Then too, cost is dependent on experience. The more you have the less it'll cost you.
I can go anywhere in the islands for less than most folks monthly rent.
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