I am being told that Liveaboard Boats loans are now impossible

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

Why is it so important for all the forum participants to:

- answer questions that were not asked
- address "issues" they think important but have no relevance to the original question
- offer advice that could have enormous financial consequences with no real understanding of the circumstances of our situation
- offer advice to commit illegal acts
- berate the OP for personal choices that have no bearing on the original question

Finally a simple question with a simple answer:
Because that is how Chat forums work.
Everyone is an expert and everyone wants to add their tidbit to the party.
How else can/will people that have never sailed offshore comment on what it takes for a "true blue water cruiser". You accept this reality or move on but you won't change gravity, the second law of thermal dynamics, or Chat room posting by complaining about it. All you will get is attacked for pointing out the obvious. Welcome to the Internet.

Oh and by the way...don't make the false assumption that threads are all about you or answering your question. Posts are mostly about the poster regardless of your question or topic. It's a Narcissist's playground.

[valhalla360]

Reminds me of how I was taught to deal with lawyers.
- Answer the question.
- Use the shortest answer possible.
- Don't add anything
- Don't speculate on what the lawyer intended
- Don't ask questions back
- If the answer is confusing or misleads him (as long as it's true), that's the lawyers problem

I remember one time being questioned over how a traffic signal controller works and it was hillarious. I was giving him completely conflicting answers because he was making minor changes in how he asked the questions but that changed how the controller would react, so I was telling the truth. After about 30minutes, he just got angry and told me to leave.

Of course, I had to explain it to the lawyer on our side afterward and she loved it because the guy is a jerk.

If that's your goal, by all means we can limit responses but as you can see it's often counter productive. Usually people want an open dialog where reasonable assumptions are made.

[ianjoub]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Reminds me of how I was taught to deal with lawyers.

Atty: "Did you or did you not enter the building?"

Answer: "Yes".

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

SIMPLY - The only question I asked was "has anyone been successful in obtaining a marine mortgage for a liveaboard boat with no shoreside residence"

C'mon guys - stick to the agenda!

You've been around here since 2012. What did you think was going to happen?

And yes one person (so far) has obtained a loan. How is that going to help you?

Maybe no one has said it but I agree with the finance companies. I wouldn't make an unsecured loan of a quarter mil or so for an asset that could be sailed off over the horizon tomorrow either.

[donradcliffe]

Another bit of unasked for advice--if you get a loan, then you HAVE to deal with the boat insurance scam until its paid off--think about 5% of value for hull insurance every year, navigation restrictions, crew restrictions, etc. My guess is that over 95% of full time liveaboard world cruisers pay cash for their boats.

[Scot McPherson]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

You've been around here since 2012. What did you think was going to happen?

And yes one person (so far) has obtained a loan. How is that going to help you?

Maybe no one has said it but I agree with the finance companies. I wouldn't make an unsecured loan of a quarter mil or so for an asset that could be sailed off over the horizon tomorrow either.

Not really true. It is secured by the asset and he even offered to double the security of the loan with a deposit. It unfortunately makes it suspicious, and carries a different type of risk, which is potentially funding terrorist activity which is precisely why the banks are telling the dude no...it's part of that larger issue the OP is ignoring and insists isn't part of this discussion.

[1ercru]

Not to belabor the point but Essex has a liveaboard loan rate, check this link:
https://www.essexcredit.com/home/boa...boatliveaboard

It could be an old link except the rates are current. It's doubtful they would go to the trouble to update their web site with loans they no longer make.

Assuming you asked an Essex agent in California, try another maybe Florida or ??? keep going until you get an answer you like, financial institutions are not monolithic and commissioned based originators are quite good at exploiting that.

Good Luck

[hellosailor]

Tacoma-
You said 'In the last week I have talked to three marine mortgage companies (Key Bank, BofA, and Essex) ".

I'd call BofA "slick willies" and not on the same level as Essex. BofA played fast and loose with home mortgages at fairy tale valuations and IIRC they are now facing billions in fines because of it. Essex, on the other hand, specializes in marine finance and so far as I know, hasn't been slapped around at all. At least, not enough to make the papers.

If Essex won't write the loan, your best bet might be to ask them what could make it happen. I think "Dodd-Frank" is just a way of blowing off questions, since there doesn't appear to be anything relevant there except for a lot of "You are going to be way more honest and careful about...." and beyond that, whole law firms now try to interpret the rest.

It seems that most of your assets are in unspecified retirements accounts, and if they've just followed the market they could be giving you a 10-13% ROI so financing the boat does make great sense. Except, retirement accounts are usually subject to state law when it comes to a creditor filing a lien against them or trying to collect against them. So if you want to use them as collateral, that may not be possible if your state of residence "protects" them from this. Result? Can't be used as collateral, doesn't exist from the lender's point of view. Similarly, if you are liveaboards and outside of any state...you have no state of residence, then what laws apply to the retirement accounts? Eh, even more problematic to a lender.

I'd go back to Essex and ask them "What's wrong with this picture?" They don't make money unless they lend money, maybe there's a way to make that happen. Or maybe, you need to talk to a clever tax accountant to find a way around funding this without distributing the retirement accounts. Creating an offshore corporation, funding it, and ensuring that it buys the mortgage, or something equally weasel-like but legal.

[maj75]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Finally a simple question with a simple answer:
Because that is how Chat forums work.
Everyone is an expert and everyone wants to add their tidbit to the party.
How else can/will people that have never sailed offshore comment on what it takes for a "true blue water cruiser". You accept this reality or move on but you won't change gravity, the second law of thermal dynamics, or Chat room posting by complaining about it. All you will get is attacked for pointing out the obvious. Welcome to the Internet.

Oh and by the way...don't make the false assumption that threads are all about you or answering your question. Posts are mostly about the poster regardless of your question or topic. It's a Narcissist's playground.

Well said, sir! That's why I rarely post. I'll try to remember this when I get pissed off at ridiculous responses.

Thanks

[DumnMad]

Taco - "C'mon guys - stick to the agenda!"

Not fair. The thread title does not ask a question. Also your agenda was unknown to us and we did not know your full financial circumstances. Did you really expect a finance advisor's answer?

The title gave rise to some discussion so whats da problem?

[DSDman]

I Hope I can retire when I turn 52.... Doesn't look like it's going to happen though! Good on ya....My Dad retired at 55 and he is 80 now, I'm still trying to be like him.

Sent from my XT1030 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[weavis]

Originally Posted by DSDman

I Hope I can retire when I turn 52.... Doesn't look like it's going to happen though! Good on ya....My Dad retired at 55 and he is 80 now, I'm still trying to be like him.

what..? you want to be 80?

Its great you have respect for your father. A lot of people dont these days... well done.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Scot McPherson

Not really true. It is secured by the asset and he even offered to double the security of the loan with a deposit. It unfortunately makes it suspicious, and carries a different type of risk, which is potentially funding terrorist activity which is precisely why the banks are telling the dude no...it's part of that larger issue the OP is ignoring and insists isn't part of this discussion.

I was referring to that fact that the "security" for the loan (the boat) can disappear. Therefor in my eyes it is unsecured.

The deposit is also a red herring because the money loaned is still unsecured if there is no real fixed property in a jurisdiction that I can foreclose in.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by DSDman

I Hope I can retire when I turn 52.... Doesn't look like it's going to happen though! Good on ya....My Dad retired at 55 and he is 80 now, I'm still trying to be like him.

Retirement is a myth...it's called Death.
Most of the truly happy people I know (not sure if this will get them a live aboard boat loan or not) are those who do something they love and wouldn't really want to stop.

I tried retirement once....failed at it....now do what I love and will stop when its not fun anymore.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Retirement is a myth...it's called Death.
...........................

I retired at 55 twelve, almost thirteen, years ago. I do something for my boat and something for my wife every day. I still find much time to do things for myself ,- skating, bicycling, playing with my grandson, travels and soon off cruising again. Not working is working for me!