How many cruisers would there be out there?

[Pelagic]

Yes many great exceptions in each generation but for today's youth.....

I think a more natural diet and nutrition in the past as well as limited transport helped not only the physical side, but reinforced the work ethic without too much social media distraction.

[FLKD]

Couldn't agree more.

[davefromoregon]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Mike,



I read your paper which represents one person’s viewpoint, NOT any sort of official government position on the subject. Basically it references that the younger folks have personally chosen to take on more debt and therefore are more likely as a result of such behavior... to have less disposable income. No duh.



So who’s fault is that? It’s a good thing they have people like you to make excusses for them in order to continue to justify their spending habits... spending what they don’t have instead of saving up before they buy stuff.

I did some analysis a couple years ago. I found out what a year of public college cost in 1976 in the US. I then figured out how many hours of minimum wage work it cost to pay for it. About 1100. With a hard summer, it was entirely possible for a kid to do that and get out of school with no debt. I repeated the experiment for 2016. It took 2,500 hours to pay for a year of public university. There is your explanation of why today’s young people don’t have disposable money once they get into their first jobs. Then they or their spouses have biological clocks that will be respected.

[dwightsusan]

Originally Posted by Pancake91

What would be the reason of the decline?

The reason is simple. In this brave new world of instant gratification, the percentage of the population with an ever shortening attention span is growing exponentially.

[jimisbell]

Back in the 70s when I first started planing, it was estimated to have been about 2,000. It grew massively and as someone said it is now declining. Part of the decline may be that circumnavigation is much more difficult these days with the politics of the world. In the 70s piracy was not as big a problem. I realize that circumnavigation is not the goal of ALL cruisers, but it was mine. In the 70s, sailing the Suez canal wasnt such a big deal. Then that changed, then my wife started aging faster than I, then it became obvious it wasnt going to happen. Is cruising the south Texas coast in a Mainship 34 called cruising?

[wolfgal]

not long ago in Le Monde, i stumbled onto an article that described the work of a man named Richard Wilkinson.

Wilkinson has done extensive research that shows how those western (richer) countries that have the most economic inequality within them are those that have the biggest problems with health problems, mental health, violence, withdrawal and depression, addiction, lifespan, sudden death... and yet more people who live in dog-eat-dog mode and those who wallow in narcissistic consumerism.



if you are curious, here is a ted talk in which he gives an overview, but i recommend that, each takes a deeper look at his studies (Wilkinson sails circles around Peterson!). truly fascinating!

https://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wi...age=en#t-25274

in light of this, i would suggest that an interesting study for us, for our question as to --how many cruisers would be out there --would be to see if there are correlations, if there are more young cruisers from countries that have the lowest inequalities vs from those countries with higher inequalities.

perhaps, whereas there may be less young people getting into cruisiing from the US, UK, etc, there may be more from sweden, japan, denmark, etc. etc. etc.





wolfgal

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

not long ago in Le Monde, i stumbled onto an article that described the work of a man named Richard Wilkinson.

Ah yes. I recommend the book he co-wrote: The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better. It is one of the most boring reads because it is chock full of data and statistical analysis — BUT, it is also one of the most riveting.

Originally Posted by wolfgal

...in light of this, i would suggest that an interesting study for us, for our question as to --how many cruisers would be out there --would be to see if there are correlations, if there are more young cruisers from countries that have the lowest inequalities vs from those countries with higher inequalities.

perhaps, whereas there may be less young people getting into cruisiing from the US, UK, etc, there may be more from sweden, japan, denmark, etc. etc. etc

It’s a good question Wolf. Like you, I suspect we’d see higher rates of participation from more equal societies. But you’d also have to account for local variability regarding cruising life as a cultural option. It would be like trying to compare rates of hockey playing, which is also very expensive, but is also highly influenced by local culture.

I think it could be done with sufficiently robust datasets.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Ah yes. I recommend the book he co-wrote: The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better.


It’s a good question Wolf. Like you, I suspect we’d see higher rates of participation from more equal societies. But you’d also have to account for local variability regarding cruising life as a cultural option. It would be like trying to compare rates of hockey playing, which is also very expensive, but is also highly influenced by local culture.

I think it could be done with sufficiently robust datasets.

ah, yes, as always, you are miles and miles ahead of me, Mike. the study would definitely need to be quite comprehensive so to take into account the role of a country's sailing culture and/or cruising culture...

in any case, Wilkinson reveals how so many people in unequal societies are quite simply socially withdrawn, are turning to games, have depression, feel they cannot trust others or the world they live in... so, i suggest that, when we discuss today's youth, we need to keep Wilkinson's contribution in mind.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

I did some analysis a couple years ago. I found out what a year of public college cost in 1976 in the US. I then figured out how many hours of minimum wage work it cost to pay for it. About 1100. With a hard summer, it was entirely possible for a kid to do that and get out of school with no debt. I repeated the experiment for 2016. It took 2,500 hours to pay for a year of public university. There is your explanation of why today’s young people don’t have disposable money once they get into their first jobs. Then they or their spouses have biological clocks that will be respected.

Good point!

[Sea Venture]

I think there must be thousands . We are in ST Vincent and the Grenadines at the moment and there are yachts everywhere

[kryg]

Steve Jobs, and the tech developers have a lot to ansewer for. iphones, ipads games, xbox and a like take away the interest in learning physical ablity solution and social skills as most are drawn into these devises. God forbid If war ever comes to a reality, how will they defend themselves and their familys and the nation with gaming skills?

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Lack of skills for fixing stuff and no tolerance for dealing with broken stuff/general impatience for the inconveniences which one encounters with a boating lifestyle, seem to be a common factor. Many try the lifestyle, then quit after a very short period of time in frustration. This can be said for people of all ages these days.

You missed this biggie Mike.

[Kenomac]

Every generation has ambitious people, slackers and takers. There will always be people of all ages who will work the minimum and make excuses and some who will do just the opposite and work 2-3 jobs in order to get ahead.

Nothing has changed since the time of the Romans, and it will remain the same moving forward. All the women I’m working with tonight have multiple jobs because they’re ambitious and want more than a minimum standard of living.

One thing different today, is the large number of people making excuses for the under achievers.

[wolfgal]

yes, many women (like myself) work more than one job so to make life better.

but do you not think that these women would rather put in their 8 hours and then do something else with their time?

would they not like to spend time with friends, family, or learning or doing something else?

for me, these women work many jobs because the cost of life has gone up, but pay has not.

so many are faced with the need to find/create other sources of income, beyond the regular job.

and this is NOT a good thing: it is a symptom of an unhealthy and fragile economy.

take that single mother or father with two jobs: if she/he gets sick or breaks a leg, what happens to her life? can she keep her apartment/house? what happens to the kids? can she continue to pay their schooling?

it takes very little to fall between the cracks in western society, especially in countries like the US


as for slackers, please consider this:


When i was a kid, there were no games. i discovered the fun of climbing trees, digging out clay for pottery projects, and inventing things. the environment i lived in was so safe that my most dangerous (and forbidden) adventure was sneaking into a car and truck graveyard on the other side of the mountain. i'd tremble in there because of the broken glass and the rust and the bigness/stillness of everything (especially since i knew that i wasn't allowed to be there). my imagination went wild in there, as it did every time i got myself lost in the woods. once, i got really lost in the black of the night in the forest, and it took me hours to find my way home! and i was six! (yes, i used to get into big trouble...).

i'm sure that when you look back, you can recall experiences that enthralled you as a kid. more than likely your life happened outside, and it was a safe place to be.

Kids today, do they have this? some kids may have this range of freedom and discovery. but do most?

what i see is that the majority of kids today have games that produce dopamine, that excites them as though the game is a real adventure. these games keep them inside even if they live in a nice environment

they develop an addiction to this dopamine, to these games that makes it so that real experiences are quite simply uninteresting

the effects of the addiction to games are coming to light, but why haven't measures already been taken to protect these kids/people? well, remember how cigarette companies made their pretty buck on the backs of the addicted and for so long? in my mind, this is happening all over again.

and it really bugs me that topics like this are not a part of political campaigns. in the mist of over-population, the focus of debates always reverts to a woman's right to choose. it captures people's attention, creates camps. it divides people. works like a charm every time!

why not talk about establishing fair pay and taxing the companies that are robbing kids of their desire to discover the world?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

yes, many women (like myself) work more than one job so to make life better.

but do you not think that these women would rather put in their 8 hours and then do something else with their time?

would they not like to spend time with friends, family, or learning or doing something else?

for me, these women work many jobs because the cost of life has gone up, but pay has not.

so many are faced with the need to find/create other sources of income, beyond the regular job.

and this is NOT a good thing: it is a symptom of an unhealthy and fragile economy.

take that single mother or father with two jobs: if she/he gets sick or breaks a leg, what happens to her life? can she keep her apartment/house? what happens to the kids? can she continue to pay their schooling?

it takes very little to fall between the cracks in western society, especially in countries like the US


as for slackers, please consider this:


When i was a kid, there were no games. i discovered the fun of climbing trees, digging out clay for pottery projects, and inventing things. the environment i lived in was so safe that my most dangerous (and forbidden) adventure was sneaking into a car and truck graveyard on the other side of the mountain. i'd tremble in there because of the broken glass and the rust and the bigness/stillness of everything (especially since i knew that i wasn't allowed to be there). my imagination went wild in there, as it did every time i got myself lost in the woods. once, i got really lost in the black of the night in the forest, and it took me hours to find my way home! and i was six! (yes, i used to get into big trouble...).

i'm sure that when you look back, you can recall experiences that enthralled you as a kid. more than likely your life happened outside, and it was a safe place to be.

Kids today, do they have this? some kids may have this range of freedom and discovery. but do most?

what i see is that the majority of kids today have games that produce dopamine, that excites them as though the game is a real adventure. these games keep them inside even if they live in a nice environment

they develop an addiction to this dopamine, to these games that makes it so that real experiences are quite simply uninteresting

the effects of the addiction to games are coming to light, but why haven't measures already been taken to protect these kids/people? well, remember how cigarette companies made their pretty buck on the backs of the addicted and for so long? in my mind, this is happening all over again.

and it really bugs me that topics like this are not a part of political campaigns. in the mist of over-population, the focus of debates always reverts to a woman's right to choose. it captures people's attention, creates camps. it divides people. works like a charm every time!

why not talk about establishing fair pay and taxing the companies that are robbing kids of their desire to discover the world?

There's nothing wrong with setting one's sights on the low, minimum work and standards side of life, just don't expect to own a yacht. Yachting has always been an expensive pastime requiring extra effort, unless one sets one's goal on the starter/fixer upper type boat.

[Painless]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

yes, many women (like myself) work more than one job so to make life better.



but do you not think that these women would rather put in their 8 hours and then do something else with their time?



would they not like to spend time with friends, family, or learning or doing something else?



for me, these women work many jobs because the cost of life has gone up, but pay has not.



so many are faced with the need to find/create other sources of income, beyond the regular job.



and this is NOT a good thing: it is a symptom of an unhealthy and fragile economy.



take that single mother or father with two jobs: if she/he gets sick or breaks a leg, what happens to her life? can she keep her apartment/house? what happens to the kids? can she continue to pay their schooling?



it takes very little to fall between the cracks in western society, especially in countries like the US





as for slackers, please consider this:





When i was a kid, there were no games. i discovered the fun of climbing trees, digging out clay for pottery projects, and inventing things. the environment i lived in was so safe that my most dangerous (and forbidden) adventure was sneaking into a car and truck graveyard on the other side of the mountain. i'd tremble in there because of the broken glass and the rust and the bigness/stillness of everything (especially since i knew that i wasn't allowed to be there). my imagination went wild in there, as it did every time i got myself lost in the woods. once, i got really lost in the black of the night in the forest, and it took me hours to find my way home! and i was six! (yes, i used to get into big trouble...).



i'm sure that when you look back, you can recall experiences that enthralled you as a kid. more than likely your life happened outside, and it was a safe place to be.



Kids today, do they have this? some kids may have this range of freedom and discovery. but do most?



what i see is that the majority of kids today have games that produce dopamine, that excites them as though the game is a real adventure. these games keep them inside even if they live in a nice environment



they develop an addiction to this dopamine, to these games that makes it so that real experiences are quite simply uninteresting



the effects of the addiction to games are coming to light, but why haven't measures already been taken to protect these kids/people? well, remember how cigarette companies made their pretty buck on the backs of the addicted and for so long? in my mind, this is happening all over again.



and it really bugs me that topics like this are not a part of political campaigns. in the mist of over-population, the focus of debates always reverts to a woman's right to choose. it captures people's attention, creates camps. it divides people. works like a charm every time!



why not talk about establishing fair pay and taxing the companies that are robbing kids of their desire to discover the world?

I don’t think most of the kids with the games and electronics you are referring to are old enough to have jobs or saving accounts to purchase them so I think part of the blame has to go back one generation to the parents that purchase them and allow the excess usage etc.
My kids both struggle with my grandkids to limit the screen time allowed.
We took them all to the BVIs for 10 days and not once did the grandkids even ask to use their “electronics “. If they are given an opportunity to be outside and exposed to something they can participate in they will be the kids we all enjoy being around.