How many cruisers would there be out there?

[rsn48]

So there was a thread about the Toronto International Boat show, the comment that sticks out from that thread and the OP's opening remarks is something like, there were very few sailboats there and lots of silver haired guys looking at power boats.

Shortly after that comment, I attended the Vancouver International Boat show. And I saw a similiar observation with a little difference. Again, there were significantly less sailboats than in the past, even at the floating boat show. And yes the power boats have definitely grown in size.

But I notice three things. 1) The number of large expensive fishing boats, you know the type, a thousand horsepower and longer than 30 feet with luxuries was definitely on the rise. 2) The number of larger cruising yachts over 45 feet designed for cross ocean passages was on the rise. This is a newer trend but you definitely need big bucks for this "sport." 3) Though power boats in the more "affordable" range for cruising were there, and probably the entry boat for many newer boaters, the companies were displaying their big stuff and ignoring this crowd, even though they had boats available, but not displayed.

I just today returned from the Victoria (BC) Boat Show and it was definitely set up for the fishing crowd, there were very few non-fishing boats displayed.

I am active in another hobby - model railroading. The manufactures are following the money and going after the silver haired crowd, but they are biting off their own noses. It is said the younger crowd just doesn't have access to passenger trains as in the past. This observation is true, and false. Younger folks are taking trains but they are most interurban, more the commuter train. So you'd assume the manufacture would start addressing that crowd. Nope.

I think there are more into boating than ever, but it has changed. First the boats that they can afford just aren't "out there" so to speak. Even in Pacific Yachting our local boating mag, they talk the talk of getting young into boating, but the great majority of boats in their mag is in the $750,000 + range. Also the number of power cruisers reviewed in the mag is on the rise, but most mags locally here in BC and the state of Washington cater to the sailing crowd but boats like the popular Catalina 27 that helped introduce thousands into boating is down played, instead you have to get your 55 foot (fill in the blank of popular expensive sailing brands).

So many are talking the talk of support the newbie, but most aren't walking the walk, support the newbie. Instead, go after the older crowd with bucks and experience, easier quicker money but at the loss of a newer generation into the sailing and cruising lifestyle.

[Fore and Aft]

Another couple of reasons could be that Sailing is so slow. It takes a lot of perseverance to just slowly jog around the world or to your next destination.
The other issue I think is that it is not easy to jump in and out of the sailing market.
I noticed plenty of young people in NZ recently sleeping rough in old vans while exploring the country. You can buy and sell a van a lot easier than a yacht so maybe that keeps them away as well? Not to mention you can see a hell of a lot more sights at 100km/hr than 6 knots.
Mikes right about the costs as well, just slipping and berthing here in Australia can be very expensive.
Cheers

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Pancake.

[boatman61]

I think cruising is more of an older person thing..
Theres no shortage of young sailors over here in Europe when you see the Opti fleets heading out for the day from the majority of European ports.. or the fleets of 470's etc racing every weekend on the S coast UK..
Then you get the settling down stage, gf, wife, kids, mortgage etc and the changes that brings to life.
Then comes the 50's and free time starts to re emerge and old loves return to the fore..
Another thing I have noticed is quite a few cruisers like myself are m'bike lovers who like the freedom and escape bikes bring.. actually sailing for me is very much like biking..
Hacking along a windy country road touching the limits with sparks flying as the exhaust skims the road feels much like full sail and beating up a channel with the boat quivering through each tack as you battle the ebbing tide to make your entry to the harbour gives a similar intensity and excitement.. a lazy drift downwind lends to a lazy ride though nice country as you head for a canalside pub 30 miles from home..
The freedom of the open road and sea are much of a muchness to me.
Cruising long term methinks will ever be the last haven sought by the middle-aged.
Also.. opinions here are very US centric, understandably so given the membership..

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatman61

...
Another thing I have noticed is quite a few cruisers like myself are m'bike lovers who like the freedom and escape bikes bring.. actually sailing for me is very much like biking..
Hacking along a windy country road touching the limits with sparks flying as the exhaust skims the road feels much like full sail and beating up a channel with the boat quivering through each tack as you battle the ebbing tide to make your entry to the harbour gives a similar intensity and excitement.. a lazy drift downwind lends to a lazy ride though nice country as you head for a canalside pub 30 miles from home..
The freedom of the open road and sea are much of a muchness to me….

Ah, the link between motorcycles and sailing … I had no idea until I too got into biking. I actually bought my first bike as an inexpensive way to drive between house and boat. But then a funny thing happened — I learned I loved it!

Sadly, I face a dilemma. Here in Canada, prime sailing time is also prime motorcycling time. What to do .

[Kenomac]

Move your boat several hundreds of miles south, or split your time and relocate your motorcycles south.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Another thing I have noticed is quite a few cruisers like myself are m'bike lovers who like the freedom and escape bikes bring.. actually sailing for me is very much like biking..
Hacking along a windy country road touching the limits with sparks flying as the exhaust skims the road feels much like full sail and beating up a channel with the boat quivering through each tack as you battle the ebbing tide to make your entry to the harbour gives a similar intensity and excitement.. a lazy drift downwind lends to a lazy ride though nice country as you head for a canalside pub 30 miles from home..
The freedom of the open road and sea are much of a muchness to me.

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Ah, the link between motorcycles and sailing … I had no idea until I too got into biking. I actually bought my first bike as an inexpensive way to drive between house and boat. But then a funny thing happened — I learned I loved it!

I would only add that traveling by mx & sailboat feel very much similar to me in many respects. It's just that the costs of admission & ongoing costs of participation differ greatly!

[FabioC]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

There have been a few threads that discussed this issue. I forget the names … maybe Ken remembers. Overall, it’s a generational demographic shift. As the Baby Boomers sail off into the sunset there are fewer taking up the lifestyle or hobby.

We like to discuss (argue) about the fundamental reasons why. Some reasons discussed include:

#1. The kids today just aren’t interested in sailing, and hence cruising. They have other interests.

#2. The kids today are poorer, therefore don’t have the financial ability, nor economic stability, to get into big discretionary purchases like cruising boats.

...

Interesting observations, but I am wondering two things:

1. Boat sales in the US are growing at a healthy pace in all sectors, including boats in the "cruising" sizes. How does this reconcile with the decrease in the number of cruisers?

2. Are kids not interested in sailing, or are there other types of boating/water sport activities that now compete more with keel-boat sailing? For example, even within sailing, the high performance skiffs or the foiling dinghies are much cooler, exciting, and more attractive to kids, and cost way less. Also, there are other activities, like kiteboarding, that are relatively inexpensive and accessible.

Is the decrease in the number of people who go out sailing, or in the number of people who cruise? If only the latter, then a very likely cause is the shift of lifestyle. Perhaps less people are able to get away from the grind of the job market and conventional every-day life. For sure, new generations seem less adventurous than our generations, and less interested in "abandoning civilization", exploring new places and pushing their own limits.

[rsn48]

Sadly, I face a dilemma. Here in Canada, prime sailing time is also prime motorcycling time. What to do

So I was curious as to where you live so checked your info. Who told you a shovel wasn't necessary in the Okanagan, its always necessary at some point in the winter. Your fatal flaw was you almost made it to the right location. Victoria is where you should have landed, there you can motorcycle and boat about 51 1/2 weeks of the year, then you don't have to struggle over which one to do. In fact, bike to the boat and now you have the best of both worlds.

[Valmika]

Another thing I have noticed is quite a few cruisers like myself are m'bike lovers who like the freedom and escape bikes bring.. actually sailing for me is very much like biking..
Hacking along a windy country road touching the limits with sparks flying as the exhaust skims the road feels much like full sail and beating up a channel with the boat quivering through each tack as you battle the ebbing tide to make your entry to the harbour gives a similar intensity and excitement.. a lazy drift downwind lends to a lazy ride though nice country as you head for a canalside pub 30 miles from home..
The freedom of the open road and sea are much of a muchness to me.
Cruising long term methinks will ever be the last haven sought by the middle-aged.


I'm with you on this one Boatman but on this thread I did see quite a few posts not from US. Don't forget about airplanes

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Valmika

Don't forget about airplanes

That seems to be true too! Since buying my boat and joining this and other sailing forums, I've found there to be quite a bit of crossover interest & background between flying, sailing & motorcycling. Or some combo thereof.

Kinda interesting.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by FabioC

Interesting observations, but I am wondering two things:

1. Boat sales in the US are growing at a healthy pace in all sectors, including boats in the "cruising" sizes. How does this reconcile with the decrease in the number of cruisers?

Cruising level boat sales are not increasing. All data I’ve seen shows they’ve been decreasing. Small boat sales, with a predominance of power boats, are on the rise. But not cruising level boats, and by that I mean boats you can live and travel on for weeks at a time.

Originally Posted by FabioC

2. Are kids not interested in sailing, or are there other types of boating/water sport activities that now compete more with keel-boat sailing? For example, even within sailing, the high performance skiffs or the foiling dinghies are much cooler, exciting, and more attractive to kids, and cost way less. Also, there are other activities, like kiteboarding, that are relatively inexpensive and accessible.

Is the decrease in the number of people who go out sailing, or in the number of people who cruise? If only the latter, then a very likely cause is the shift of lifestyle. Perhaps less people are able to get away from the grind of the job market and conventional every-day life. For sure, new generations seem less adventurous than our generations, and less interested in "abandoning civilization", exploring new places and pushing their own limits.

I nod yes to most of your comments here. But what is the core cause? I don’t say there are less people enjoying water activities. In fact, the data shows an increase in the number of small, mostly power boats being sold.

This makes sense in light of decreasing wealth, and possibly more importantly, decreasing income security. Combine this with the fact that hours worked are generally going up, and you have a population that is poorer, less secure, with less free time.

There is evidence to support the idea that younger generations are "less adventurous”, and are making different lifestyle choices. In part, I place the root cause at the foot of changing economics and security, but obviously this is a complex situation with multiple causes.

Originally Posted by rsn48

Sadly, I face a dilemma. Here in Canada, prime sailing time is also prime motorcycling time. What to do

So I was curious as to where you live so checked your info. Who told you a shovel wasn't necessary in the Okanagan, its always necessary at some point in the winter. Your fatal flaw was you almost made it to the right location. Victoria is where you should have landed, there you can motorcycle and boat about 51 1/2 weeks of the year, then you don't have to struggle over which one to do. In fact, bike to the boat and now you have the best of both worlds.

You know, that blog post was done tongue-in-cheek ?

Yes, I love the west coast. My long-term vision is to sail over to the BC shores. Right now we’re cruising Newfoundland. Our boat is in Corner Brook. We wintered this year in the Okanagan (house-sitting). We’ll likely head south in the next few years, but if global warming keeps clicking along, maybe the NW Passage will become less of a crazy idea.

[powsmias]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Ah, the link between motorcycles and sailing … I had no idea until I too got into biking. I actually bought my first bike as an inexpensive way to drive between house and boat. But then a funny thing happened — I learned I loved it!

Sadly, I face a dilemma. Here in Canada, prime sailing time is also prime motorcycling time. What to do .

Same problem here too.. and add pool rooms into the mix.. so plan is when dropping the hook to get to the closest pool room..

[Kalinowski]

The concept of reproduction is left out here. Perhaps cruisers and weekend sailors aren't getting their kids into sailing early enough, or not having kids at all.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Lack of skills for fixing stuff and no tolerance for dealing with broken stuff/general impatience for the inconveniences which one encounters with a boating lifestyle, seem to be a common factor. Many try the lifestyle, then quit after a very short period of time in frustration. This can be said for people of all ages these days.

You missed this biggie Mike.

Don't they have an app for this?!: