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Old 07-12-2019, 12:32   #106
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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I'm not arguing your point. I'm building on it. Take your money elsewhere AND tell them you are doing so and why.
Me neither. No argument at all. Just good discussion.

Absolute best option is as you say, take your money elsewhere AND tell them why. It's the cases were consumers have few or no other options where I think more drastic action is warranted.
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Old 07-12-2019, 13:01   #107
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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Absolute best option is as you say, take your money elsewhere AND tell them why. It's the cases were consumers have few or no other options where I think more drastic action is warranted.
So how do I take my money elsewhere?

No matter where I go, meat is packed on a fomopac tray, shrink-wrapped in plastic. Eggs are either in papermache (end-of-life for recycling) or plastic holders. Would I want my eggs in a eco-friendly paper bag? Not unless I want never-ending scrambled eggs for breakfast. My beer or soft drinks are packed in the same metal, glass or plastic irrespective of supplier. What eco-friendlier packaging is available for beer or wine or any soft drink for that matter? Breakfast cereal comes in a cellophane bag inside a heavily printed cardboard box. Is there any other way to ensure freshness to the consumer? Donít think so. This list is endless.

Yes, in a few exceptional cases there are real options. I could go to a veggie shop or a dedicated butcher and get my fresh stuff wrapped in paper. Is the manufacture of paper any less damaging to the planet? Not if I look at the clouds of stuff emitted by paper mills that Iíve seen. Is the fuel I use to drive the extra distance beneficial?

But 95% of the grocery producers package the same way. How much do I need to inconvenience myself to make a totally insignificant contribution to an unwinnable process? Maybe passive, unnoticed resistance is laudable, I just donít see the point. Perhaps itís more productive to responsibly dispose of the residue of the consumerism Iím irrevocably a part of.
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Old 07-12-2019, 13:24   #108
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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So how do I take my money elsewhere?
I'm not arguing your points, much. *grin* I'm with you on eggs. Some places in the world you can get bulk eggs. Most, not. Big change. There are a lot of places in various countries where you can buy beer in bulk to fill your own growler. Actually inexpensive but niche and if you don't have ground transportation it gets expensive. Some places, mostly quite expensive 'gourmet' places you can get cereal from bulk sales - skeeves me out a bit frankly as I don't trust other people's food safety practices.

I'm entirely with you on looking at cradle to grave impact of butcher paper vice foam and plastic.
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Old 07-12-2019, 13:47   #109
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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Originally Posted by CassidyNZ View Post
So how do I take my money elsewhere?... Yes, in a few exceptional cases there are real options....But 95% of the grocery producers package the same way. How much do I need to inconvenience myself to make a totally insignificant contribution to an unwinnable process? Maybe passive, unnoticed resistance is laudable, I just donít see the point. Perhaps itís more productive to responsibly dispose of the residue of the consumerism Iím irrevocably a part of.
I've culled your comment down to the core Cassidy. Hopefully I have not missed anything key in the process.

Your point is exactly what I was referring to when I said "In cases were consumers have few or no other options where I think more drastic action is warranted." In these cases I think being a PITA is perhaps the only way to send the message. And to be specific, this is why dumping the excess packaging at the store is one option which may have the desired impact.

And lest anyone think it's impossible, here's an article about a UK retailer doing exactly what we've been talking about: Tesco tells suppliers to remove excess packaging

As far as not seeing the point of resisting, well, only you can make that determination. Having grappled with these kinds of issues nearly my entire professional life (although in a different context), I've come to the conclusion this is exactly what the large corporations want us to feel: powerless.

Certainly we are powerless as individuals. This is why the only effective means is for large numbers of people to stand up and say "no!" Large numbers start with small numbers, but not all issues are worth fighting for. If this isn't one for you, then carry on...

Dumping and recycling appropriately is usually better than heaving things over the side (the original question here), but these are great examples of how large corporations externalize costs.

BTW, I don't think the issue of excess packaging is so much focused on food. There is a lot in those middle grocery aisles, but if you aren't buying a lot of processed food it is possible to avoid most of it. The egregious examples of excess packaging can often be found in small consumer products like electronics, hardware, and all the shipping material used in our online buying world.

Here are a couple more articles which popped up in my search:

https://www.theguardian.com/business....ethicalliving

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/exc...poll-1.2490047
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Old 07-12-2019, 14:11   #110
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

Packaging is one of the 4 Ps of marketing. If companies felt they could make more money by changing the packaging they would.

It’s as simple as that!
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Old 07-12-2019, 14:22   #111
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

When living in the harbor, we carry our trash and recycling to their dumpsters pretty regularly - every couple of days. We have small trash and recycling receptacles on the boat, and these generally fill up and need to be emptied before the trash has time to get stinky. I also rinse cans and bottles.

Before going out to sea, I dispose of unnecessary cardboard around plastic bags (cereal, crackers, etc). I transfer eggs to a reusable egg carton and dispose of the cardboard ones. In general, I buy in bulk whenever possible, in order to produce less waste.

When out at sea, I chop food scraps into 1" pieces and chuck overboard, and rinse the stuff that stays on the boat (cans, bottles, etc)

Hope this helps!
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Old 07-12-2019, 20:01   #112
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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I agree. I wrote something similar early on in this discussion. But I don't take this as an argument NOT to do it. Resistance is never futile, even when it may seem to be insignificant.

truer words were never spoken..........
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Old 07-12-2019, 20:11   #113
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

Incinerating plastic need not be any more polluting than incinerating anything else. It's in the design of the incinerator / stove. Wood stoves have been built for many years now that use an afterburner system. The problem with plastic and rubber is that it off gasses so rapidly that you cannot supply enough air, and if you try, you generate more heat, which makes it off gas faster. The solution is to after burn where the heat of the afterburn does not effect the fuel. The pyrolysis of the chemical components largely breaks them down into relatively harmless emissions if this is done correctly.


The waste oil issue has been handled by many large trucking firms by the simple expedient of mixing the oil from the oil change with the diesel, and burning it as fuel. If it never is exposed to the environment where it gets dirt and stuff in it, waste diesel oil though it is very black is actually quite "clean"..... it must be to lubricate an engine properly. The key is to be able to pump it directly from the oil pan into the fuel tank...... no drain pans or anything.
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