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Old 05-12-2019, 12:42   #91
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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As far as I know, in New Zealand no retailers will allow shoppers to strip packaging off and leave it behind. I have a friend who owns a major supermarket franchise - I shall for interest ask him how he would react.

We have unpackaged vegetables that are wrapped in plastic and on styrofoam trays at the customer service counter and left the plastic and foam there. They’re not happy, but nobody has told us to take the stuff away.

I think we should be saddling the retailers with the over packaging - they’ve got much more power with the distributors than we do as individual consumers. Of course, bringing your own bags and containers helps, and buying products with less packaging.

Regarding trash while cruising, we remove all packaging before bringing anything on board. There’s actually very little non-recyclable trash if you’re careful. Once on board, all organic waste goes overboard, as well as paper/cardboard, glass (broken up in a bucket first) and metal. Plastic containers are washed, crushed, and stored in one of our rear fender compartments. That’s when we’re offshore (well beyond the 200m depth contour). Closer inshore, glass and metal are washed, broken or crushed, and stored with the plastic.
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Old 05-12-2019, 15:10   #92
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How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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As far as I know, in New Zealand no retailers will allow shoppers to strip packaging off and leave it behind. I have a friend who owns a major supermarket franchise - I shall for interest ask him how he would react.


You don’t leave it in the store, you throw it in their trash.
They don’t seem to mind, maybe because I brought my own bags?
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Old 05-12-2019, 15:41   #93
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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You don’t leave it in the store, you throw it in their trash.
They don’t seem to mind, maybe because I brought my own bags?
Mostly the supermarkets in NZ have a skip (dumpster) in a secure environment in their goods receiving area for their trash, not open to the public. This is prompted by the prolific illegal dumping of domestic refuse by locals. I guess you could ditch the packaging in the smaller municipal bins around the area but that would be a little anti-social.

NZ has banned the use of “single-use” plastic bags in supermarkets (as if other forms of plastic packaging are multi-use ) - everybody shops with re-usable bags. Is that the packaging we’re discussing? I was more thinking about unwrapping groceries than shopping bags.

As far as retailers influencing packaging goes, the reality is that alternate forms of packaging that are durable enough to survive the cradle-to-grave supply chain are really not readily available and the retailers are far enough down the supply chain that their opinions have little influence. In the final analysis, packaging is about profitability and if cheap/nasty forms of packaging are to be replaced by tree-hugger varieties, expect your produce to cost noticeably more.
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Old 05-12-2019, 16:31   #94
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

All packaging ends up in the trash somewhere doesn’t it??? Are some suggesting stores don’t know customers are going to throw that stuff away? Are we really being this silly?
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Old 05-12-2019, 16:55   #95
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

My family owned four retail stores in my younger years, I can assure you the retailer, distributor, and the warehouse the distributor obtains from have absolutely NO say in marketing or packaging.
If you have an honest sincere desire to make changes in retail packaging you have to go to the source.
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Old 05-12-2019, 16:57   #96
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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All packaging ends up in the trash somewhere doesn’t it??? Are some suggesting stores don’t know customers are going to throw that stuff away? Are we really being this silly?
I think it’s more a desire to delegate the disposal of refuse to the store owner rather than assume the responsibility that goes with selecting groceries that are packed in “undesirable” wrappings. I’ve wondered all along through this discussion why I would choose a product in undesirable packaging and then believe that someone else should bail me out by getting rid of the trash for me.

It’s a simple choice of selecting products that have eco-friendly, minimal packaging then the disposal problem disappears.

Good luck with that
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:49   #97
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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In the final analysis, packaging is about profitability and if cheap/nasty forms of packaging are to be replaced by tree-hugger varieties, expect your produce to cost noticeably more.
...and meats and dry goods.

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It’s a simple choice of selecting products that have eco-friendly, minimal packaging then the disposal problem disappears.
Not so simple when the choice doesn't exist. I can't think of a place where I can buy meat wrapped in butcher paper. Canned goods without a layer of plastic inside. Same with dry goods and dairy. Deli products are a little better than prepackaged items but not much. At least in the US, Caribbean, and the parts of Europe I have provisioned we don't have much in the way of choices.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:19   #98
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

I don't really understand this idea that retailers have no influence over their suppliers who have no influence over their manufacturers/producers. A basic premise of free markets is the ability to send those kinds of messages up and down the chain, otherwise markets don't work.

So of course if consumers started resisting all the useless packaging, the message would be sent to the retailer who would then send that up the chain. The relative power or strength of that messaging ranges of course, but to say there is no impact is to suggest markets don't actually work.

The best message a consumer can do is spend their money in ways that reflect their values. Retailers, then wholesalers and then manufacturers will get the message. If no option is available, then more drastic measures like dumping all the excess packaging, is one of the other ways to send that message.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:04   #99
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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I don't really understand this idea that retailers have no influence over their suppliers who have no influence over their manufacturers/producers. A basic premise of free markets is the ability to send those kinds of messages up and down the chain, otherwise markets don't work.

So of course if consumers started resisting all the useless packaging, the message would be sent to the retailer who would then send that up the chain. The relative power or strength of that messaging ranges of course, but to say there is no impact is to suggest markets don't actually work.

The best message a consumer can do is spend their money in ways that reflect their values. Retailers, then wholesalers and then manufacturers will get the message. If no option is available, then I'll drastic measures like dumping all the excess packaging, is one of the other ways to send that message.
Exactly.

Food is definitely not a place to scrimp and save money. Heath bills from cheap food and poor diet are astronomically higher.

It was mentioned no place sells meat in paper anymore. Not right. Whole Foods has always sold meat only in brown paper at the meat counter.

Bring your own bags instead of using store bags, buy bulk items (Whole Foods again).

If I'm upset about the packaging of some items, I occasionally leave the packaging in the cart hoping someone gets the hint.

Little things go a long way toward reducing trash burden on a boat
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:32   #100
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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So of course if consumers started resisting all the useless packaging, the message would be sent to the retailer who would then send that up the chain. The relative power or strength of that messaging ranges of course, but to say there is no impact is to suggest markets don't actually work.
Of course the weakness in the theory is that for every cruising sailor who resists excessive/unfriendly packaging because of their quite unique requirements, there are 5 million consumers who don’t give a toss and continue to buy goods in such packaging irrespective of the downstream consequences.

An article in The Guardian newspaper notes: “More than 480bn plastic drinking bottles were sold in 2016 across the world, up from about 300bn a decade ago. If placed end to end, they would extend more than halfway to the sun. By 2021 this will increase to 583.3bn, according to the most up-to-date estimates from Euromonitor International’s global packaging trends report.”.

The ten bottles that I may save by decanting my drinking water into a carafe I specially bought for that purpose and leaving the bottles at the door of the retailer who sold them to me is unlikely to change this.

So rather than being a meaningful message sent up the chain, you’re simply seen as an insignificant irritation. No personal slur intended, simply facing facts.
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Old 06-12-2019, 14:07   #101
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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...So rather than being a meaningful message sent up the chain, you’re simply seen as an insignificant irritation. No personal slur intended, simply facing facts.

I agree. I wrote something similar early on in this discussion. But I don't take this as an argument NOT to do it. Resistance is never futile, even when it may seem to be insignificant.
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Old 06-12-2019, 18:23   #102
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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I agree. I wrote something similar early on in this discussion. But I don't take this as an argument NOT to do it. Resistance is never futile, even when it may seem to be insignificant.
Just letting you know, as a retailer, when I expressed any desires for design change, packaging change, marketing change, etc to my distributors I was always told "those are corporate issues and must be taken up at that level"
Perfect example is when soft drink companies flirted with shrink wrapping 6 packs instead of the rings. Customers hated it, sales reps offered a corporate number to call and complain. When I called I was told as a retailer, I had no complaint, I could only complain as a end consumer.
They dont want to hear from me that Mike OReilly doesn't like it, they want to hear from Mike himself.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:24   #103
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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So of course if consumers started resisting all the useless packaging, the message would be sent to the retailer who would then send that up the chain.
I suggest this works better if you take the time to write letters to public affairs at the manufacturers whose practices to which you take exception.

I've been writing to companies in the 5th District of Minnesota to let them know of my own little boycott. *grin* So far they aren't impressed but I have heard back so companies do pay attention. Paper mail seems to get more attention than email, but you have to be committed enough to pay postage.

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It was mentioned no place sells meat in paper anymore. Not right. Whole Foods has always sold meat only in brown paper at the meat counter.
I visit Whole Foods occasionally. It's too expensive for no marginal value unless I have a good deal from Amazon Prime. I haven't noticed butcher paper at the meat counter. I'll look the next time I'm there. The last time I saw butcher paper was at a specialty butcher that went out of business about six years ago.

Leaving packaging in a shopping cart is not an effective communication mechanism. The store will simply assume you are rude.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:58   #104
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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I suggest this works better if you take the time to write letters to public affairs at the manufacturers whose practices to which you take exception.

I've been writing to companies in the 5th District of Minnesota to let them know of my own little boycott. *grin* So far they aren't impressed but I have heard back so companies do pay attention. Paper mail seems to get more attention than email, but you have to be committed enough to pay postage. ...
My experience in trying to influence large businesses is that they really don't give a damn about complaint letters as long as they keep getting our money. This is why the best option is to take our dollars elsewhere.

Occasionally you can use media (traditional or "social") to embarrass companies into action, but as long as they keep making money off of us, they don't really care about all the complaints.

This is why dumping packaging might be a way to send a message. Ultimately it costs the retailer more in clean up or other PITA effects (staff costs, etc.), which will then send a market message. Whether it rises above simple annoyance is dependent on the number of people engaging in the practice.

I know that if everyone started to do it, things would change pretty quickly. If only a few of us nutters do it, then it will have little to no actual effect. But my view, as a bit of a life-time activist, is that change happens one person at a time. The Man wants us to believe resistance is futile. I know this is not true, but unfortunately these kinds of actions often fail due to lack of uptake by sufficient numbers of people.
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:04   #105
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Re: How does everyone handle trash onboard?

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My experience in trying to influence large businesses is that they really don't give a damn about complaint letters as long as they keep getting our money. This is why the best option is to take our dollars elsewhere.
I'm not arguing your point. I'm building on it. Take your money elsewhere AND tell them you are doing so and why.
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