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jtsailjt · 10-12-2013, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

I would start with 2 dozen camping mats cut up and placed against every hull surface you can find. Had friends go through the coldest winter in many years in 2010 on a Beneteau 35 and life was okay for them.

I think insulating the boat will dramatically cut your diesel bill down to make running the heating affordable. Must be a good time to buy up supplies of cheap camping mats.

Pete

It's very tough to insulate the whole hull but one area you can insulate where heat loss is the worse in all the hatches, simply by taping clear plastic over the frames at least a few inches away from the hatches plexiglass surface to create a dead air space. If you have framed screens for your hatches, wrap them in Saran Wrap and install them. It also helps with condensation issues on the cold hatch surfaces because the warm, moist, interior air will not be circulating against it. It's very common for sailboats to have cabinetry up against most exterior surfaces and that acts as a sort of insulating layer between the outside and the interior living space where you are. Another area where you can block the loss of warm air is to install covers or otherwise block off your dorade vents if you haven't already done so.

I really think that your diesel furnace is your best option, from an efficiency and cost (others have done the respective BTU's/gallon and $$$/gallon math for you) standpoint as well as dryness (you won't need to run your dehumidifier as long as your diesel furnace is running) as well being the safest choice other than going with all electric heat. I used to try to use the upside down flower pot method of heating a 35' boat that I had long ago, but that didn't work very well so I bought a Force 10 propane heater and it had a built in sensor that could detect either too low O2 levels or too high CO2 levels which was tied to a auto shutdown, and if I closed the boat up tight enough so I could actually heat it, pretty soon the heater would automatically shut itself off because it didn't take long at all for the atmosphere inside the boat to become unhealthy. In order to run the heater for any length of time I had to leave a hatch open! Using your stove "allows" you to generate that same unhealthy combo of gasses inside your boat without the auto shutdown feature that a propane heater would give you. Not a good idea at all. Contrast that with your diesel furnace drawing in fresh, dry air and constantly replenishing the air in your boat and there's no contest as to which is better for your health. Using your propane stove to heat your boat is both false economy and unsafe.

Cheechako · 10-12-2013, 16:35

I think the bottom line isnt about cost... it's about keeping your boat warm. The clay pot on t he cookstove isnt going to do that. Distribution of heat is the key, the forced air diesel is probably the best at that.

insulating is a good idea, either short term for the winter or long term. Short term you could get rigid foam and cut to fit wherever you can. Also, think about using it or anything easy to seal off things like the 1/4 berth you're not using right now etc. Insulate and bring the heated space down to minimum.

Bash · 10-12-2013, 17:10

Although I have a diesel furnace, I swear by oil lamps. That way you get heat and light at the same time, and we've found that two high-quality lamps put out a great deal of both.

We burn Ultrapure parafin in ours, so there's no odor. It's far pricier than regular kerosene, but a pint lasts a full week on our boat.

mub · 10-12-2013, 17:43

I had another comment...

Although it is cold in the PNW it is unusually dry.
That makes humidity not a big issue - so I have cut down on ventilation allowing me to warm more easily.

I have a humidity / temp gauge - $10 at bartell - you are aiming for about 40%

For me the worst situation is the "cool and damp"

Added heat doesn't help reduce the humidity of the air much and so it is a struggle to maintain good living conditions.

SVRapture40 · 13-12-2013, 09:41

I appreciate all of the ideas! Thank you!

As for insulation - insulating the hull would be very difficult as would insulating the topsides (but that is by far the best idea). I made window/port insulation covers out of the bubble wrap lined with foil stuff last summer. My intention was to use it to keep the tropic heat/sun out, but it worked well to keep the warm in. It didn't really make a huge difference on the temperature gauge, but it definitely *felt* warmer.

As for propane vs diesel - I don't have any theoretical numbers, but I know I can run my propane stove for a very long time on a bottle of propane. And my furnace uses a bit less than a gallon of diesel per hour. So I am fairly confident that propane creates cheaper heat. The other reason for not wanting to use diesel is I want to keep my tank full to keep moisture out of it.

As for the propane stove killing us - I am really not too concerned about that. I am not planning on using the stove as my main source of heat - just use it 2 or 3 times per day to knock the chill off. That is why I was looking for some kind of heat sink to set on top of the stove. My thought was to heat it up, turn the stove off, and put a small fan on low blowing over it.

Last, and certainly not least, all of this is just temporary. We have no intention of spending another winter in the cold any time soon. We wouldn't be here this winter except it got too late in the year and we didn't want to travel south in the winter. We will be out of here next summer.

rw58ph · 13-12-2013, 10:05

Even down south you will need heat. The CAT Catalytic heater fits what you are looking for. $500.00 bucks, easy to install and it sound like you have propane already. If we moved south and/or did not need the Webasto that is what I would install again.

Cheechako · 13-12-2013, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVRapture40

I appreciate all of the ideas! Thank you!

As for insulation - insulating the hull would be very difficult as would insulating the topsides (but that is by far the best idea). I made window/port insulation covers out of the bubble wrap lined with foil stuff last summer. My intention was to use it to keep the tropic heat/sun out, but it worked well to keep the warm in. It didn't really make a huge difference on the temperature gauge, but it definitely *felt* warmer.

As for propane vs diesel - I don't have any theoretical numbers, but I know I can run my propane stove for a very long time on a bottle of propane. And my furnace uses a bit less than a gallon of diesel per hour. So I am fairly confident that propane creates cheaper heat. The other reason for not wanting to use diesel is I want to keep my tank full to keep moisture out of it.

As for the propane stove killing us - I am really not too concerned about that. I am not planning on using the stove as my main source of heat - just use it 2 or 3 times per day to knock the chill off. That is why I was looking for some kind of heat sink to set on top of the stove. My thought was to heat it up, turn the stove off, and put a small fan on low blowing over it.

Last, and certainly not least, all of this is just temporary. We have no intention of spending another winter in the cold any time soon. We wouldn't be here this winter except it got too late in the year and we didn't want to travel south in the winter. We will be out of here next summer.

Huh? what kind of diesel furnace is it? Most forced air ones use a heck of alot less than a gallon an hour. Thats more than the main engine...?

mub · 13-12-2013, 11:39

Yep I get through less than a gallon a day.
I expect to fill my fuel tank once in late fall then again in spring. That is 100us gal and included trips out.

boating2go · 13-12-2013, 16:45

When I retired in 2008 we sold the boat and bought a house in Florida that had a Florida room with no heat or AC. I had bought a portable heat pump, with AC, that we in that room. When we decided to buy a boat and move aboard again I kept the heat pump. We have a 45 foot Columbia and it works great on here. The amp draw is low, a little surge at start up, and even with the 30 amp limit we do not have problems. I recommend looking for one it has a thermostat control, dehumidifies (I let it drain into the bilge), and you do not have to worry when you go away because it will not fall over.

DeepFrz · 13-12-2013, 19:16

boating2go, could you post the brand, model?

DeepFrz · 13-12-2013, 19:27

I can see where a heat pump would work fine for Florida. Not so good in Washington State or New England in winter. Most Marine air cons. have reverse heat. Again, good where the water temp is above 40f, not so good in colder water.

Tantalus · 13-12-2013, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by mub

I had another comment...

Although it is cold in the PNW it is unusually dry.
That makes humidity not a big issue - so I have cut down on ventilation allowing me to warm more easily.

I have a humidity / temp gauge - $10 at bartell - you are aiming for about 40%

For me the worst situation is the "cool and damp"

Added heat doesn't help reduce the humidity of the air much and so it is a struggle to maintain good living conditions.

Sorry to disagree but temperature definitely affects humidity. Relative humidity of 100% at around 50F will only be approximately 24% if the air is heated to 80F.

Horror Hotel · 14-12-2013, 05:03

SVRapture, What kind of diesel heater do you have? It's either not running right (broken), leaking, or maybe your consumption figures are wrong. I would look into all of these things, most marine diesel heaters seem to burn about 1 gallon a day, making much heat. If yours is using 20 times that there is a issue for sure. Back up north I would burn 1 gallon an hour heating a 30x40 shop space with terrible insulation, through a forced air furnace from the 80's. Getting a new Dickinson diesel heater would be your best bet, you'll need heat in all sorts of random places once you leave the dock. I have a vented propane heater and it uses a ton of propane to keep the cabin warm. It's like cooking a meal 24 hours a day. Sure its not super costly , but when compared to diesel it's through the roof. It's well known that the diesel heater is many, many times cheaper to run than propane, and it's the best option for boats without 100 amp service.

DeepFrz · 14-12-2013, 05:16

ITR says that their Hurricane II, a 40,000 btu furnace, uses .40 US gal/h or 1.50 L/h. I haven't checked the other furnaces but 1 gal per hr seems like a lot. That is burning over 130,000 btu.