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daletournier · 03-11-2019, 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpeer

Very blurry indeed, I would argue there are no lines but a continuum. Use the tool that is right for the job, don’t get hung up on labels.

100%, the labels are the issue. The models are in a constant state of flux, forever changing. I do find there is to much resentment towards capitalism, capitalism has lifted much of the world to standards that we once couldn't of dreamed of, it's done tremendous good and its easy to take for granted by those that have never experienced anything else, that's the luxury of capitalism.

I mentioned quasi socialist societies, this also applies to capitalist societies, the capitalist society we have today is very different from its origins.

I have a crew onboard at the moment that believes in pure socialism (nice person), it amuses me that we have these discussions on my yacht which come about via my efforts that capitalism allowed to be turned into money, shes enjoying the rewards of my productivity with out expending any of her own energy yet feels shes paying her way through life....productive & non productive comes to mind.

daletournier · 03-11-2019, 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Exactly — blurry. Just like no functioning society has ever adopted pure capitalism as a whole.

It’s a silly argument to make say “we don’t want socialism here!” Just like it’s equally silly to demand no capitalism (ask China how this latter is going). Functioning societies employ a mixture of approaches. And doing so does not condemn a society from sliding further into totalitarianism, be it on the socialist spectrum (communism) or the capitalism spectrum (fascism).

It's a natural selection process, and so it should be.

The label thing is crazy. My right leaning friends think I'm left when I disagree with them, my left leaning friends think I'm right when I disagree with them!....people need to pigeon hole.

My best mate calls me a leftie, the girl onboard currently would define me as right wing..lol.

Mike OReilly · 03-11-2019, 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by daletournier

It's a natural selection process, and so it should be.

The label thing is crazy. My right leaning friends think I'm left when I disagree with them, my left leaning friends think I'm right when I disagree with them!....people need to pigeon hole.

My best mate calls me a leftie, the girl onboard currently would define me as right wing..lol.

We’ll just call you Goldilocks

daletournier · 03-11-2019, 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

We’ll just call you Goldilocks

Lol, well I also get called "princess" by girlfriend and others due to the amount of happiness I get from my capitalist enabled comforts! .....sadly I must agree with them [emoji1787]

My crew laughed at me again today as I cooked up my eggs ,avocado and smoked salmon breakfast washed down with 2 cups of nice brewed coffee, commented how she never eats this well.

I didnt come from money, I enjoy enjoying the money I now have, no dishonor in having some money and making the most of it, unbelievably lucky to be born in a great capitalist country at a great time that gave great opportunity ....anyway I digress, let's get back to our "life as we know it is going to end"....which unfortunately I think is possible

**newhaul** · 03-11-2019, 06:42

If you all want the truth about all of it here ya go .

**newhaul** · 03-11-2019, 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTRacer

I've not seen this before so even if it might be regular (ish) post it has been worthwhile you linking it. Only half way through so far but it's fabulous and fascinating. Thanks.

happy to have helped broaden peoples horizon with an old book on real world self sufficiency .

Lake-Effect · 03-11-2019, 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by newhaul

except Marxism ( communism) and socialism are in the end the same .

Ayn Rand was a 3rd-rate novelist and a first-class nutbar. Even hardcore libertarians outgrow her sophomoric absolutist and utterly unrealistic theories.

Your assertion above is as simplistic and misleading as Rand's statement.

daletournier · 03-11-2019, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Ayn Rand was a 3rd-rate novelist and a first-class nutbar. Even hardcore libertarians outgrow her sophomoric absolutist and utterly unrealistic theories.

Your assertion above is as simplistic and misleading as Rand's statement.

As is your 3rd rate opinion. Not everyone views the world the same....I know, hard to believe isnt it!

**weavis** · 03-11-2019, 07:50

First and only warning

Please return to the subject topic, stop the fighting or else the thread will be closed.

Mike OReilly · 03-11-2019, 08:17

I was pleased to pull this out of a quick SHTF search:

Quote:

“If you’re on the East Coast, you should have your eyes on Newfoundland and Labrador. If you’re on the West Coast, you should be looking closely at B.C., north of Washington State’s.”

Looks like me and Hpeer will be fine. And if you all play your cards right, we might just let a few of you in as well

.

sdj · 03-11-2019, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by taxwizz

Without Law and Order, armed gangs will prevail.
They will kill anyone who is not one of them, and steal their goods.
The only solution is to join one of these armed gangs and earn their trust.
We will very quickly return to a violent, tribal society.
It will not be pretty.

That is the lie fed to us by the government, so that we will each fight to maintain, and re-subscribe to the concept of "law and order", and correspondingly the jurisdiction of the summary courts. It ignores that ordinary citizens are responsible individuals who can actually do the right thing and plays on our fears to maintain dominance. We believe this, because we don't even trust ourselves to make proper social decisions, because we don't actually do that.

The truth is more that we can trust ourselves to make proper decisions, we can organise ourselves to achieve a common goal based on non-violent principles, and that we don't need to subscribe to a higher power for protection - but people are afraid and don't believe in themselves so they can't see it.

Checkswrecks · 03-11-2019, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingssail

Weavis, I know the global warming is tiresome for some readers, and I've seen it all before myself, yet I am enjoying the discussion, the whole discussion.

For you to kill it, unilaterally and unnecessarily, is high handed and an abuse of your power as a moderator.

Why not let people who don't want to read it simply switch to a different thread?

Because you and everybody else signed up to statements that you would be civil and follow rules such as "Please post questions in those particular related forums. " There's no question that a few people would drive any topic toward whatever their soapbox happens to be and this isn't a GW thread.

fwiw flame me if you want - I haven't seen a lot of support for Weavis and am supporting him partly because I'm a mod on a different forum and he's right, but more because I have seen good forums turn to crap through the idea "Why not let people who don't want to read it simply switch to a different thread?" Besides, it's easy to just post to an appropriate thread.

**newhaul** · 03-11-2019, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis

Still trying to convert everyone to having a catamaran, but I know to just keep it in my prayers than write it on the CF...

on.

Never going to happen here i personally am either a mono or trimaran guy .

**weavis** · 03-11-2019, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by newhaul

Never going to happen here i personally am either a mono or trimaran guy .

I'll mention you especially in my prayers...

When I was in the military, we ran 2000 hours of "what if" scenarios if we imploded as societies...

There was no clear conclusion as to where would be safe... If I recall it came down to who had the most useful weapons.