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Old 08-11-2019, 12:55   #391
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

Well I have to correct myself from an earlier post about thesame Manson yachts construction .
It is not steel with aluminum superstructure It is apparently entirely stainless steel .
https://amp.businessinsider.com/worl...-yacht-2019-11
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Old 08-11-2019, 19:01   #392
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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being " green " is about much more than just the co2 emissions.
You also need to look at the whole system. Pv just doesn't work on a grid level it is just to unreliable. How are you going to power the grid when the sun isn't shining? What is the environmental impact of those batteries ?

Renewable power is great on small scale the real problem is it really doesn't scale well to a grid level.
I'd really encourage you the do some updated research on this. This very well may have been completely true as little as 10 years ago. It's most certainly not true today. We have large numbers of large grids that are already operating with high renewables penetration and there are a number of studies by NREL and others that show even higher penetration is easily achievable without any additional innovation, while at the same time storage innovation is occurring at a remarkable rate. Electric grids already operate with huge amounts if intermittency even if they are 100% fossil fuel powered....do you or any other grid user ask permission before you turn your AC or electric heater on or turn it off? Load and supply variability are identical from an engineering perspective and we've been dealing with absolute intermittency on one side since the inception of the grid. Just like you can forecast load you can forecast wind and sun over a grid-wide nor nodal area to a surprisingly high degree of certainty and certainly enough certainly to dispatch hour ahead as most ISOs do. Renewable costs are now lower than building any new fossil fuel plant in most areas and costs continue to fall to the point that the most economical path will soon be to build twice the generation you need, link grids, and just dump the extra electricity into desalination or simply curtail it when it's not needed.
Happy to continue the conversation offline. This is something that I see so much well intentioned misinformation on that's misinformation simply because the field has changed so rapidly that it's the equivalent of someone who last investigated mobile phones 20 years ago talking about the limitations of mobile phone networks based on that former reality. It's just a completely different world, an exciting one at that, and well worth reading some of the technical and engineering literature (and absolutely not the political literature!) on.
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Old 08-11-2019, 19:27   #393
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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I'd really encourage you the do some updated research on this. This very well may have been completely true as little as 10 years ago. It's most certainly not true today. We have large numbers of large grids that are already operating with high renewables penetration and there are a number of studies by NREL and others that show even higher penetration is easily achievable without any additional innovation, while at the same time storage innovation is occurring at a remarkable rate. Electric grids already operate with huge amounts if intermittency even if they are 100% fossil fuel powered....do you or any other grid user ask permission before you turn your AC or electric heater on or turn it off? Load and supply variability are identical from an engineering perspective and we've been dealing with absolute intermittency on one side since the inception of the grid. Just like you can forecast load you can forecast wind and sun over a grid-wide nor nodal area to a surprisingly high degree of certainty and certainly enough certainly to dispatch hour ahead as most ISOs do. Renewable costs are now lower than building any new fossil fuel plant in most areas and costs continue to fall to the point that the most economical path will soon be to build twice the generation you need, link grids, and just dump the extra electricity into desalination or simply curtail it when it's not needed.
Happy to continue the conversation offline. This is something that I see so much well intentioned misinformation on that's misinformation simply because the field has changed so rapidly that it's the equivalent of someone who last investigated mobile phones 20 years ago talking about the limitations of mobile phone networks based on that former reality. It's just a completely different world, an exciting one at that, and well worth reading some of the technical and engineering literature (and absolutely not the political literature!) on.
2 things
First most on here already know I am fully off grid and independent with ( currently 100 ah lfp) 400 watts solar and 400 watts wind . With an 800 watt 120v AC generator as backup running a 50 amp 12v dc charger as needed.

Secondly you should actually look at the ecological impact of the mining of all the materials
Leaves behind . Not to mention the end of life impacts.
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:08   #394
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

The first consideration should always be to REDUCE energy requirements. Let’s say your normal average energy use is 10kw. Then you add 5kw of renewables so that your average use increases to 15kw, you have solved nothing and likely made things worse due to the manufacturing.

That’s the major problem we have today with the “green” energy debate, it’s focus is on creating a new “green” manufacturing base and infrastructure. It is based on the myth of eternal growth. Much like assuming our fields will be eternally fruitful and our Wells never dry. Fairy tales.

The only energy you “save” is the energy you do not use.
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:14   #395
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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... you should actually look at the ecological impact of the mining of all the materials
Leaves behind . Not to mention the end of life impacts.
Which is exactly what an LCA does.
Life-Cycle Analysis is a tool for investigating the environmental profile of a product, or technology, from cradle to grave.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:41   #396
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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...depends on where you get your statistics...
Since you happily put that meme out there for our enjoyment, care to tell us what are the sources and statistics for that claim?
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:46   #397
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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The first consideration should always be to REDUCE energy requirements. ... The only energy you “save” is the energy you do not use.
There's no disagreement that conservation is one of the most important parts of the energy solution; the kwh you don't use is a kwh (or more) we don't need to generate and deliver. And it's the part that we as consumers have the the most control over, in our choices and actions.

Quote:
Let’s say your normal average energy use is 10kw. Then you add 5kw of renewables so that your average use increases to 15kw,
... you lost me.

Quote:
... you have solved nothing and likely made things worse due to the manufacturing.

That’s the major problem we have today with the “green” energy debate, it’s focus is on creating a new “green” manufacturing base and infrastructure.
... nope, I still don't know what you're trying to say.

The harder parts of the "green" issue are that we have far too much reliance on a finite resource, and the extent of this reliance is harming us, not only environmentally, but also politically.

We NEED to find and develop alternates that give us the energy we require, indefinitely, without the harms currently caused by our coal/oil addiction. Whether this new source is solar, or wind, or nuclear, or even a cleaner nat. gas generator... it will involve research, investment, development and manufacturing. This should be obvious.

Of course we need a "new “green” manufacturing base and infrastructure". Bonus fact - this will create the opportunities, jobs and prosperity of the future.

(and the above also applies to non-energy issues like pollution, plastics, fertilizer use, etc. Overall, we need to stop making such a mess, and figure out cleaner ways to do stuff)

Also, everything wears out, demand is still growing... there will always be manufacturing and upgrading of our power infrastructure, regardless of energy source.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:48   #398
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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I would absolutely LOVE a small, lightweight nuke reactor for the boat.

Just a couple Kw would do nicely.
You've got room for the four technicians to run, monitor, and repair it? (not to mention government inspectors)

Or have you totally suspended disbelief in order to entertain that fantasy?
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:01   #399
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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here is a statistic graphics to consider unfortunately its true.
Fortunately it is totally untrue.

"Broadly, the ten countries with the highest murder rates in the world are Honduras, Venezuela, Belize, El Salvador, Guatemala, Jamaica, Swaziland, Saint Kitts and Nevis, South Africa, and Colombia, while the United States doesn’t crack the top hundred.

it’s difficult to find any metric that places the United States as “third in murders” worldwide."


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/un...third-murders/

By the way Newhaul, is that grinning girl happy because she has just sprayed lead out onto a field of pretend people targets and watched them get totally destroyed, or because she is about to?

We are not letting her or her arsenal into our community, a fit of jealousy with her hands on that gun and a single one ten second burst could take our murder rate to #1
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:43   #400
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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2 things
First most on here already know I am fully off grid and independent with ( currently 100 ah lfp) 400 watts solar and 400 watts wind . With an 800 watt 120v AC generator as backup running a 50 amp 12v dc charger as needed.

Secondly you should actually look at the ecological impact of the mining of all the materials
Leaves behind . Not to mention the end of life impacts.
Sorry, I thought your comment was related to renewable penetration on electric grids and now we're talking off-grid micro systems so I'm a bit confused. They're pretty radically different beasts.

The whole mining and end of life argument has been pretty thoroughly debunked. Certainly it takes resources to build a wind or solar farm, and a very little to turn them back into silicon and iron oxide. And those are vastly less than the resources needed to build and fuel a fossil fuel generator. Throw in distributed generation vice transmission and the argument is even clearer. Certainly conservation is important, but there's the optimum and the realistic. And the realistic is that people are going to want energy, and renewables are already in a position to to provide the vast majority of that energy at the least environmental cost.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:44   #401
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
]

By the way Newhaul, is that grinning girl happy because she has just sprayed lead out onto a field of pretend people targets and watched them get totally destroyed, or because she is about to?

We are not letting her or her arsenal into our community,
that grinning girl is just happy to be able to own that firearm.
( thanks to our military personnel)

and I guess you missed the fact that she is a responsible gun owner of a semi automatic firearm. The only time she would fire that rifle at another human is to defend her or her children's life.

If gun owners were as crazy and as violent as the anti gunners say we are there would be no anti gunners .
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:50   #402
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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Sorry, I thought your comment was related to renewable penetration on electric grids and now we're talking off-grid micro systems so I'm a bit confused. They're pretty radically different beasts.

The whole mining and end of life argument has been pretty thoroughly debunked. Certainly it takes resources to build a wind or solar farm, and a very little to turn them back into silicon and iron oxide. And those are vastly less than the resources needed to build and fuel a fossil fuel generator. Throw in distributed generation vice transmission and the argument is even clearer. Certainly conservation is important, but there's the optimum and the realistic. And the realistic is that people are going to want energy, and renewables are already in a position to to provide the vast majority of that energy at the least environmental cost.
small to micro scale is the only way that solar and wind actually work good .
The whole cradle to grave bit has been hidden by the greenies not debunked.
This is but one example of that problem that needs to be addressed.
https://www.americanexperiment.org/2...report-decide/
If you really need it in sure you can find many more examples if you actually want to know the real world facts.
And you should see what a real hail storm can do to a grid type solar farm in about 10 seconds.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:03   #403
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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Sorry, I thought your comment was related to renewable penetration on electric grids and now we're talking off-grid micro systems so I'm a bit confused. They're pretty radically different beasts.
.
sorry about the confusion my posting my off grid fact was in direct response to a specific sentence in your post .I should have just quoted it in my response .

Here is the sentence

do you or any other grid user ask permission before you turn your AC or electric heater on or turn it off

Again sorry for that confusion .
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:06   #404
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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You've got room for the four technicians to run, monitor, and repair it? (not to mention government inspectors)

Or have you totally suspended disbelief in order to entertain that fantasy?

Nah, it would be completely automatic, lightweight safe and cheap.
It will probably be available from China on eBay in a couple of years with free shipping.


winky winky winky !!
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:10   #405
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
small to micro scale is the only way that solar and wind actually work good .
The whole cradle to grave bit has been hidden by the greenies not debunked.
This is but one example of that problem that needs to be addressed.
https://www.americanexperiment.org/2...report-decide/
If you really need it in sure you can find many more examples if you actually want to know the real world facts.
And you should see what a real hail storm can do to a grid type solar farm in about 10 seconds.
In the United States and Europe there are efforts to develop recycling for the fiberglass blades. In the US large scale, commercial, recycling plants are under construction and expect to be in full operation in the next 12 months.
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