Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-02-2021, 02:36   #16
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 40,406
Images: 241
Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CassidyNZ View Post
... Two passports essentially identify two different legal people. If you can procure a visa for each passport, the border officials have no possible way of telling that it’s the same passport holder. The hard part may be getting two visas.
I very much doubt that's true, anywhere, in the world.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2021, 05:42   #17
Registered User
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 8,415
Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcliffe01 View Post

I had a cousin who was a South African citizen married to an Irish citizen. They were traveling as a couple from Europe to Australia and their flight made a stop in China. Even though they were not going to leave the secure zone of the airport while the plane refueled and got a fresh crew, when the Chinese discovered her nationality she was held at gunpoint by several soldiers. She was only released after several Australian and American passengers made a big fuss over her treatment.


I donít follow what this story has to do with du passports?
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2021, 17:31   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Currently in Michigan
Posts: 242
Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

Let me clarify my personal experience, and I only have 1 passport, from South Africa. Now as most of you probably know, we are considered some of the least desirable people in the world and virtually every country put all sorts of hurdles in front of us that have to be overcome in order to enter the other countries. It is probably not helped by the fact that we had a national service system in South Africa and many conscript got special military training like combat engineers with land mine, explosives and demolition training.


Today, when you fill out a visa application, many countries ask questions about whether one served in combat or had specialized training and usually an entirely different form is available to be filled out describing your training, and especially if you were involved in combat.


The nett result is that one is thereafter profiled, I think the data is made available to interpol. So in 2000 I moved from the companies manufacturing operation in South Africa to the engineering HQ in Germany. I was assigned to lead the Ford Focus program, which had been launched but was still in production for several years. The job required that I get on a plane to London every 2 weeks for a meeting with the client at their Dunton Engineering center in London. I had a residence visa in Germany since I was married to a german girl, but of course carried a ZA passport. I had submitted to extensive questioning prior to getting my residence permit in Germany and separately for a tourist visa to the US which surprisingly was issued for 10 years.



On every trip to London (every 2 weeks) I would leave Germany without any fuss, then stand in the "non EU citizen" line on arriving at the airport in London. Usually I had with me a printed copy of the meeting invitation, my hotel reservation and of course my return plane ticket. Normally I would depart the UK later the same day, in the evening. Regardless, I was usually interrogated for 10-30min before being released by immigration. Going back the other way, the main problem in Germany was the length of the "non eu citizen" line in Germany, the border control people rarely said anything to me at all.


Then 911 happened, 1 year in to this job. Procedures changed quite a bit and the processing time was the main thing that changed when arriving at London. By then I had dozens of stamps in and out the UK in my passport and the folks at immigration were actually nice to try to get as many stamps as they could on a page before starting to use another page. This was a common problem with your passport pages getting filled up and requiring a trip back to South Africa to apply for a new passport since it took so long to get a replacement through a consulate. All at your own expense, no refund from the company.


Then I started interacting with people from the US engineering center and that is where things changed pretty drastically. Because the 911 terrorists had entered the US through Frankfurt, special security procedures were adopted at Frankfurt. One had an extra security check prior to entering the secured area at the airport and then another completely independent security check at the gate where one would board. All I can say is that I was "randomly selected" for enhanced screening every time I arrived at that gate. Every item in my bag was unpacked and rifled through, I got a full pat down. Every entry in my passport was reviewed. I had to show the meeting invitation with a list of names of people I was going to meet. Phone calls were placed to validate the info I had provided. In the meantime I was kept in a locked room.



Years later, I had moved to the US and was working under a work visa. I still had to make trips to Germany, except I now lived in the US. Departing the US was no problem, yet getting cleared to board the flight in Frankfurt was still a nightmare. There were times I wondered if I was going to live out my life in a little room on the airport in Frankfurt if they decided I couldn't fly back to the US.... I was routinely asked by security officials if I was carrying any thermo nuclear devices, which initially I thought was a joke. They had dogs sniffing all electronic devices.


Years more later, when I had my interview with the FBI as part of the background check for my green card application, I was surprised to find that the FBI agent was well aware of the situation regarding conscription in the South African defense force as well as the nature and extent of hostilities that we had been involved in. While my green card application was approved, I have regardless had never ending issues with the Virginia office of the FBI who handle background checks for firearm transactions and in 10 years have so far not had them clear any of my background checks without lengthy delays or requiring intervention by a supervisor. In some cases they have refused to clear a 4473 even after 3 months (and in contravention of the law) until a supervisor got involved.


So, if you intend to travel somewhere and have multiple passports, you will do well to clarify how their border control agents will react to that status. I'm pretty sure the minimum requirement would be to declare having multiple passports and then possibly choosing which passport would be used for the sake of entering and exiting the country. If traveling to authoritarian countries like China, Russia, Africa, the middle east, I would check very carefully before simply showing up with 2 passports. In a lot of these places its difficult enough for people to get 1 passport and 2 or more is the mark of a foreign spy.
Westcliffe01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2021, 18:38   #19
Registered User
 
capn_billl's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Leopard Catamaran
Posts: 1,971
Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SY Kelpie View Post
I've tried googling this but couldn't really find anything.
Hypothetically, if you ran out of visa time somewhere and wanted to stay, could you check out, sail away, then return a few days later and check in using a different passport? In my case it would be switching between a UK and Irish passport.
Probably not is my gut feeling... but it might be worth a go
Here is the biggest problem with that plan.

In most countries the person approving your second visa at the same port of entry will be the same person who approved the first one.

At the very least they will be highly annoyed at your attempt to game the system, worst case would be to permanently deny entry, or file criminal charges.

Being honest, and asking for an exemption to the visa time limit, or requesting an upgraded visa that has a longer expiration would be a better move.

The US no longer allows multiple passports, (I recently checked), if traveling between two hostile countries you may be able to ask for a removable stamp, or visa page to hide your travel there.
capn_billl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2021, 19:54   #20
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 25,715
Images: 2
pirate Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SY Kelpie View Post
I've tried googling this but couldn't really find anything.
Hypothetically, if you ran out of visa time somewhere and wanted to stay, could you check out, sail away, then return a few days later and check in using a different passport? In my case it would be switching between a UK and Irish passport.
Probably not is my gut feeling... but it might be worth a go
Question.. If you have an Irish passport and you are in the EU why sail away.. Ireland is in the EU and as such should not be liable to visa sanctions like third country cruisers.
If your talking about the US.. look to being deported and banned from re-entry if caught.
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Double Click on the picture.
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2021, 22:16   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Nomadic
Posts: 12
Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

No, if you get caught the consequences could be very severe.

Going in and out of either place on the passport, use that passport and no other, period.

Where you have a choice, choose which passport you should or want to use for each jurisdiction - Schengen is one big one - and be 100% consistent, make sure it is easy for an official to find the corresponding entrance whenever exitting.
PaulCrawhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2021, 22:19   #22
Registered User
 
nwdiver's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: C&C Landfall 38
Posts: 736
Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
Here is the biggest problem with that plan.

In most countries the person approving your second visa at the same port of entry will be the same person who approved the first one.

At the very least they will be highly annoyed at your attempt to game the system, worst case would be to permanently deny entry, or file criminal charges.

Being honest, and asking for an exemption to the visa time limit, or requesting an upgraded visa that has a longer expiration would be a better move.

The US no longer allows multiple passports, (I recently checked), if traveling between two hostile countries you may be able to ask for a removable stamp, or visa page to hide your travel there.
Who did you check with......I believe the US Supreme Court said otherwise.......
nwdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2021, 22:50   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 172
Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

Everyone is making this far more difficult than it needs to be:

Visa runs or departing a country only to immediately return with a new visa is perfectly legal and common in many countries. No need for multiple passports or subterfuge. Just leave one day, return the next and get a valid new visa upon re entry. Of course individual countries' rules vary so check for the intended country but it's hardly a rarety.

Of course visa extension is often much easier.

Many countries allow a citizen to hold a second passport from that country. Mine, Australia, is an example. All is that is required is a valid reason: frequent travel to Israel and the Middle East is a common one.

Again, many countries allow duel citizenship which permits one individual to hold two passports from different countries.

Restrictions are that a person should arrive and depart using the same passport ie not try to get arrival processed with an Australian passport and departure processed with an British. Also, some countries may only process arrival procedures using the passport that contains the visa ie if your visa is in your Australian passport, it is much easier to enter country X using that passport rather than your legal British one.

Cheers
GoneDiving is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2021, 05:31   #24
Registered User
 
capn_billl's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Leopard Catamaran
Posts: 1,971
Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwdiver View Post
Who did you check with......I believe the US Supreme Court said otherwise.......
The 2017 ruling was for having dual citizenship.

If you are a U.S. citizen, or a permanent resident alien (green card holder) an important point to know is that under U.S. law, having a second passport does not jeopardize your citizenship. It is fully legal for a U.S. citizen to hold two, or even more, citizenships, based on rulings by the Supreme Court.Oct 24, 2017

I just checked the State Dept website.

It appears you can now apply for a second US (limited validity) passport if you can show need. Needs listed are

you work for an airline, or other critical job requiring frequent travel, and have many concurrent visa's

You sent your passport to a foreign embassy for a visa, and they did not return it in time for emergency travel.

You are traveling between two hostile countries.

SO lesson learned.

Things change, especially after Covid, and something that was true last year may not be true today.

Check with an official IN the country you intend to travel to for the latest rules before departure.
capn_billl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2021, 12:20   #25
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 4,739
Images: 6
Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcliffe01 View Post
So, if you intend to travel somewhere and have multiple passports...
Except that your very long story had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with having multiple passports! Right at the beginning you said you had only one passport, and ALL of your issues were because of your South African citizenship.

This really is getting almost surreal!
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2021, 12:26   #26
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 4,739
Images: 6
Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
The US no longer allows multiple passports...
Quote:
Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
It appears you can now apply for a second US (limited validity) passport if you can show need. Needs listed are...
This is as regards having two, separate, U.S. passports. This has nothing to do with the situation of the OP, where he has valid passports from more than one country.

There are a bunch of countries out there that will require you to surrender any other passports you may have in order to get THEIR passport. There are NONE, that I am aware of, that will forbid you from entering their country, as a visitor, if you happen to have multiple passports from other countries.
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2021, 13:01   #27
Registered User
 
Kelkara's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Vancouver Island
Boat: Hullmaster 27
Posts: 699
Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
There are NONE, that I am aware of, that will forbid you from entering their country, as a visitor, if you happen to have multiple passports from other countries.
I did have problems in Kurdish controlled Iraq when during a visa extension application it became known that I had both a Canadian and UK passport. Although they didn't like it at all, somehow the problem was overcome ... not a destination many sailors will be heading for though.
Kelkara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2021, 13:36   #28
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 25,715
Images: 2
pirate Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

The thing is.. in the EU when you enter a marina and check in all the data gets loaded into a central computer base so if you sail away for a few days then come back in on the same boat but a different passport your going to raise a red flag.. Simple as..
Then you will be visited by C&I pretty damn quick.
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Double Click on the picture.
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2021, 13:36   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,334
Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

A visa is issued to you the person, not to your passport, or to one of your multiple citizenships.

In addition to providing information for one of your passports [e.g. a country from which a US visa waiver is available] when one applies for a US ESTA, the application asks:

Have you ever been issued a passport or national identity card for travel by any other country?

Are you now, a citizen or national of any other country?

Have you ever been a citizen or national of any other country?

Hence a country will know that you have multiple citizenships and / or multiple passport documents. This is standard practice for obvious reasons.

Short answer: You will not be allowed to use a different passport to gain a visa extension.
Montanan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2021, 13:38   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Scotland- but heading south next year
Boat: Moody 39
Posts: 119
Re: Getting a second visa on a different passport?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Question.. If you have an Irish passport and you are in the EU why sail away.. Ireland is in the EU and as such should not be liable to visa sanctions like third country cruisers.
If your talking about the US.. look to being deported and banned from re-entry if caught.
My EU citizenship confers a right to be in any EU member state indefinitely. Which is wonderful. But I have ambitions to sail a bit further than that, eventually.

Note that I'm not actually advocating or planning the use of my second passport to get a repeat visa somewhere- just wondering if it was actually possible, and it sounds overwhelmingly like it's not a good idea.
SY Kelpie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.