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Old 12-12-2017, 02:59   #16
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Hah... the above posts reminded me of another facet of our Insatiable II that I like and that I didn't mention before: She has two watertight crash bulkheads forward, one aft of the chain locker and one aft of the sail locker. That's good, but not too uncommon. But she also has one aft, just forward of the lazarette. That one partitions off the rudder and skeg supports, so that in the unlikely event of hitting something hard with the rudder and tearing the whole lot off, the boat will not flood and sink. This is unusual, and I think a worthwhile addition... one not found on any production boat with which I am familiar. Not sure why this is not standard practice, for it is not so hard to achieve, and would have saved a few boats lost over the recent years.

Jim
I agree Jim, I'd like to see more of it. My boat has one watertight crash bulkhead behind the anchor locker, would be nice to have more.

You mentioned a strong keel supporting beam in your boat, I think the design of keel and structure should be over built to absorb and distribute impact, seems obvious but obviously some boats are better built in this area than others.

This is in the fore front of my mind as I just bounced on a bommie, first time in Sukha. If cruising it's matter of when you hit something, not if.

Murphys law come into play. My biggest concern here in the Seychelles is charter boats dragging into me, it's quite incredible what I've witnessed so far being around this charter boat fleet. I usually anchor taking into account a wind direction change, do I have room to swing? Came into this anchorage yesterday and deliberately went further in than I normally would due to my worry of other boats dragging. My exact words to crew were "this is fine here as long as we have no wind shift, the wind has been extremely constant for weeks so I believe this to be the lesser of two evils, Im more worried of the charter boats dragging". Guess what? Wind shift an hour ago, a couple of light keel bumps on a bombie and a mad panic to move the boat, making sure rudder miss's coral, missing the charter boat that is now over my anchor and find another spot to anchor knowing the wind will shift back to the west shortly. Fortunately no damage.

I love cruising, can't think of one other thing I'd rather do
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Old 12-12-2017, 03:02   #17
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

Funnily enough, almost every essential mentioned above is why we chose what we have.
Just we got it on steroids
Sister ship to a shipwrights own boat, both built alongside each other.
King size bed
5000L of water - 2000L is ballast-trim but can be brought online at the turn of a valve
2500watts of solar
Decent anchor and windlass - 150lb all chain
Shade, lots of shade, red headed wife and no sunburn after 2 years onboard.
4.3m aluminium dinghy and 30hp
6 ft headroom walk around engine room
Storage rooms, insulated walk in wine cellar and a workshop with welder, vice, compressor
And and and.

Over the last 2 years we have used about $500/mth in fuel doing around 400nm/mth.

Sailing background, don't like stink boats but sometimes they make sense if using numbers and logic.
I will admit, boats like this are not for everyone and as rare as rocking horse ****.
I had been chasing something suitable for several years when this fell in my lap. They are sometimes more affordable than you think.
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Old 12-12-2017, 04:30   #18
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
That's good, but not too uncommon. But she also has one aft, just forward of the lazarette. That one partitions off the rudder and skeg supports, so that in the unlikely event of hitting something hard with the rudder and tearing the whole lot off, the boat will not flood and sink. Jim
Interesting observation and one I hadn't thought of. With a 31 ft hull we only have half height bulkheads in the bow but there are two of them and divided longitudinally as well. However the stern also has a full glassed in bulkhead to deck height encompassing the stern gear. Whether the plywood access hatch is water tight is open to debate but it will certainly slow to a dribble any in rush of water from a missing rudder shaft. It's one of those things you don't appreciate that the designer has thought about and then made the effort to incorporate.

The only problem is I went and cut a lot in it when we added wheel steering and needed to access the rudder shaft with a drag link. In an emergency a pair of socks would solve this given half a chance.

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Old 12-12-2017, 08:49   #19
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

boats are personal, as are living spaces.
there are dark caves and bright ones. which do YOU prefer... and how are you going to use it-- will you continue to take boat out to sail it or find a daysailor to play with....
personally i enjoy my heavy cruiser. is stable and sails perfectly well and manages heavy seas and winds. i can even cook comfortably while underway!
but then a racer may not enjoy the feel of a heavy displacement cruiser. or the fact the heavy boat can handle the breezes and seas most return to port to endure..
sail as much as possible on everything then make your mind.
mebbe a mull design or a nelson marek would be your ideal whereas someone else appreciates the heavy slower boat.
happy hunting.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:09   #20
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

While the boat choice is indeed very personal, where and how you choose to cruise may well dictate some of your considerations. 5 years in the Medd???? how do you plan to get around the 90-day Shegen requirement? Are you planning on essentially island hopping, staying close to the shorline? Then that could dictate your comm considerations. We used a universal MiFi, with a local country SIM card in it for our WiFi-worked very well, except every time you change countries you need to search out the lcl telecom store. And we almost never used our HF. also...consider the different kinds of electrical power you will encounter....EU is all 230v, 3-wire 3-wire, 50Hz power, as is most of the rest of the world, including the Caribb except PR & USVIs! so you need to be able to accept both if you ever go into a lcl marina. Laundry/finding a lcl laundromat or laundry can get to be a big issue, depending on your(or the Admiral's) willingness to use a bucket. A watermaker can eliminate alot of looking for a water source, but they take space and power-as well as $$ to buy. We spent 3 seasons in the Medd, leaving our boat on the hard at various places during the winter/off season. But some stay aboard yr-round....as long as you find a spot that will allow your stay w/o regard for the 90-day requirement....just takes planning. Lots of stuff to consider!
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:34   #21
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

Someone said "I have a large bimini and good dodger." Same for me, and the best money I spent before my last trip south (at least in terms of value for money) was for a sunbrella connector between bimini and dodger, and an "extender" off the back of the bimini that I tie out to the davits. Shade is important down south. Before I leave again, I'm going to add breathable side panels (can't think of the name of the material).
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:35   #22
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

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Well, that was the admiral (Ann) posting, not me!

But the long LWL was one of our must haves in our search. I remember reading Steve Dashew who said that when specifying a boat, one should buy the longest LWL that you could afford, and not worry about LOA too much.

Back in my dragster days, there was a saying "there ain't no substitute for cubic inches". Same logic applies to LWL!

As to the swept back spreaders, I'm ambivalent: they do a very good job of supporting the mast, on a fractional rig they reduce the penalty for failing to get a runner set when tacking or gybing (a definite hazard when sailing two up, and one crew is asleep) and (at least in our case) reduce the number of chain plates required for shrouds to one on each side. The limitation on how far one can get the mainsail out when deep downwind is real, but we find that on Insatiable II it isn't a big deal. We get good boatspeeds DDW with main and a poled out genoa, and if we go to the trouble to set the kite, reaching up a bit from DDW really gets the speed up and the trim angle for the main is more nearly optimum. We're getting old and don't do that much any more, so good plain sail performance is nice to have.

She is surprisingly light! The launch weight (rig in, no liquids or sails on board) was measured at 9 1/2 tonnes. We carry a distressingly large accumulation of worldly goods, a total of ~1 1/4 tonnes of water and fuel when full up, dinghy, motors, lots of tools and spares... it's embarrassing, but results in the ~12 tonnes cruising weight. We do notice a perceptible improvement in performance when the tanks are nearing empty.

All in all, we are pretty damn happy with her: comfortable at sea (despite what all the "gotta be a crab crusher or it'll be a bitch at sea" pundits claim), fun to sail (important to us both), good in light air, enough stowage for passages and remote destinations, pleasing to live aboard in terms of accommodations (both aesthetically and ergonomically) and remarkably strong. The keel is steel with internal lead ballast and is bolted on, with the keel bolts going through a massive timber/glass 'H-beam" that extends from aft of the engine beds to forward of the mast step. She balances on her keel when on the hard... no need for fore and aft props, and when thus perched, all the lockers and doors open normally. The builders/previous owners careened her on a beach in Alaska years ago... on purpose! Try that in most modern boats!

Enough! I'm obviously prejudiced, but think we lucked out when we found this boat. The last good thing: after 14 years of ownership we are still good friends with Gary and Sue Macaulay who built her and did the first 8 years of cruising in her... how often do you find such happy buyers of a second hand yacht?

Jim
I was a fan of Steve Dashew for years, way back then, actually ran into him leaving Victoria heading out to sea and he was just coming in. Had a few words, his nick name is Skip. Yes that Columbia 50 that he chose for his first circumnavigation tuned him up pretty good. It was a good light air sailor back in the day but had a 33 foot waterline on a 50 foot boat. They were cheater boats to try and beat some of the CCA rules back then as when heeled they gained more waterline but ill bet it was like riding a horse in a big seaway offshore. So for him to tell his readers to go for waterline length, i can only say he came by it honestly.
With you only losing 2 feet between overall and waterline puts the boat right up where the most modern ones are but my bet is your boat probably carries alot more in the keel. Choosing boats in many cases is much harder than choosing a mate, lol.
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:25   #23
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

We are sailing the Med since 2011. Average 1500nm/ year over 7 years.
- stern cockpit for practicalitiy over central cockpit because most places in the Med require sterned docking.
- 35 to 45 feet is best especially short handed. Many ports and older marinas are narrow.
- short width keel as opposed to long bow keel to ease back up manúuvers required in stern docking.
- powerful engine with maxprop if possible to speed up manúuvers in side wind docking and departure
-A/C is more than nice to have when temparure reaches 40c + and your at dock or in a marina.
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:40   #24
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

I saw in the Amel forum a super maramu lifted by the chain plates. That says a lot for the structure. I'm sure theirs others but not all.
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Old 12-12-2017, 13:14   #25
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

Thanks to all who have offered their views and perspectives thus far. Everything from boat design to Schengen...I agree there is much to consider.

I have scrutinized with considerable interest various posts of year-one expenses. We tend toward minimalism having lived 'The Wealthy Barber' and ' Stop Acting Rich' philosophies. The 'plan' is to live aboard full time while seeing Europe at our own pace. Equity is sufficient (we thus far are keeping the house - which may spark another welcome discussion) to purchase and equip a Boat + a cruising kitty\emerg fund + monthly income stream that will sustain us for our ten year plan and beyond.

As a racer, I prefer a boat that leans toward performance rather than heavy cruiser. We have looked for a well laid-out, comfortable and relatively fast cruiser for two adults and very occasional guests (adult children). Having said that, my personal preference is Amel Maramu (love 'em) but we have thus far agreed upon Catalina 42 MkII. A good balance of layout, comfort, space, storage and value. A skeg rudder would elevate the status of this boat in my eyes. But I feel it approaches a very good compromise. Whatever the boat, it will be properly crewed to cross an ocean. As an aside, we enjoy our privacy and plan to swing from ground tackle whenever possible - while enjoying the savings.

We are still open to boat choice (hence the post) - well equipped (AIS, radar, watermaker, solar + wind gen, liferaft, windvane, RIB+o\b, EPIRB, arch\davits\bimini, separate shower stall) and within our budget. With solar + wind and water maker, we are planning to convert 'excess' water storage to extend our range with additional fuel.

I recently had a quick look at steel and aluminum - way outside of my level of knowledge to make an informed choice. But the van de Stadt and Dudley Dix in the 40-44 range really made an impression!

Hopefully these additional comments will spark other offerings of interest. Many thanks to all!
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Old 12-12-2017, 13:59   #26
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

Giving it some thought
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Old 12-12-2017, 14:43   #27
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

I do not mean to hijack this thread, but some ideas please, O what should I do?


I go through this trauma every Spring. My boat is only 31'-6". It's a 1977 model so it is not very beamy either. It's my first sailboat that I have had 30+ years. Since it is just me, my hunting dog, my shotgun and fishing poles, we get along pretty well. But damn I really would like to have more room. I read with envy all these posts by the 40'ers. From all these posts from the faraway places with the strange sounding names. And every Spring I wonder what should I do, go in debt and buy the Passport 40 that I really love? Or maybe settle for the Islander Freeport at 36' & half the price of the Passport? Or should I just throw away more junk from my present boat (that I don't really use,) and stay with the boat I can handle and know inside and out? It still turns folks eyes and admiration, she sails pretty fair also. With my retirement income I could make payments, but at 80 how much longer will I be around to make those payments?


O what to do? I have always said if I found the right sailing partner I would go the bigger boat. But she has not come along yet in the retirement years that I now enjoy. I also know that if I went 40 degrees South my chances of finding the partner would greatly improve. But I really don't like the tropics. So that is why I wonder, O what to do?
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Old 12-12-2017, 16:12   #28
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

Another chick perspective...
We are currently living on our boat (year three), and I agree that your list should reflect your cruising lifestyle. For us, we wanted to cruise comfortably so we went with safety, space, and durability. I find essential:
- a boat that passes the toughest survey
- cockpit enclosure
- biggest anchor available
- water maker
- the best rib your boat can handle
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Old 12-12-2017, 17:18   #29
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

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Originally Posted by Divevac View Post
Thanks to all who have offered their views and perspectives thus far. Everything from boat design to Schengen...I agree there is much to consider.

I have scrutinized with considerable interest various posts of year-one expenses. We tend toward minimalism having lived 'The Wealthy Barber' and ' Stop Acting Rich' philosophies. The 'plan' is to live aboard full time while seeing Europe at our own pace. Equity is sufficient (we thus far are keeping the house - which may spark another welcome discussion) to purchase and equip a Boat + a cruising kitty\emerg fund + monthly income stream that will sustain us for our ten year plan and beyond.

As a racer, I prefer a boat that leans toward performance rather than heavy cruiser. We have looked for a well laid-out, comfortable and relatively fast cruiser for two adults and very occasional guests (adult children). Having said that, my personal preference is Amel Maramu (love 'em) but we have thus far agreed upon Catalina 42 MkII. A good balance of layout, comfort, space, storage and value. A skeg rudder would elevate the status of this boat in my eyes. But I feel it approaches a very good compromise. Whatever the boat, it will be properly crewed to cross an ocean. As an aside, we enjoy our privacy and plan to swing from ground tackle whenever possible - while enjoying the savings.

We are still open to boat choice (hence the post) - well equipped (AIS, radar, watermaker, solar + wind gen, liferaft, windvane, RIB+o\b, EPIRB, arch\davits\bimini, separate shower stall) and within our budget. With solar + wind and water maker, we are planning to convert 'excess' water storage to extend our range with additional fuel.

I recently had a quick look at steel and aluminum - way outside of my level of knowledge to make an informed choice. But the van de Stadt and Dudley Dix in the 40-44 range really made an impression!

Hopefully these additional comments will spark other offerings of interest. Many thanks to all!
The Amal was designed for serious offshore use, there are a lot of basic features in the construction that make it unique and different from your run of the mill racer/cruiser sailboat. From glassing the hull and deck together, which effectively makes it similar to a one piece hull to having water tight bulkheads you simply cannot compare the construction to a Catalina. So if you were planning a long term Cruising lifestyle with ocean crossings then the Amal is a good choice. For coastal cruising or dock living there are far better choices that are much cheaper as well than an Amal.
The Catalina 42 was not necessarily designed as an offshore boat, for example the Catalina 47 was. But that aside if your ocean crossings are limited to the trade wind belt at the appropriate time of the year there is no reason the boat won't give similar service or better than the Benni's or other similar high production sailboats that make claims to offshore abilities.
Because the boat has been built for a number of years in substantial volumes you should have lots to choose from. It's not a bad choice for a more budget oriented jack of all trades sailboat. We cruised a bit with a couple with 2 kids that were sailing a Catalina 42 and they were out for close to 5 years and had pretty good luck with their boat and both of them were very happy with it.
When setting your cruising budget keep one thing in mind. It's very normal to really go thru your boat and get all the service work done and all the upgrades completed before leaving and your costs should reflect that in that your first 2 to 3 years will be quite reasonable for boat upkeep. When you get to 5 plus years the repair replace cycle will be starting to really cycle up and by 10 years youll be in full replacement mode. So budget for it and set the money aside and i can promise you your boat wont disappoint you in sucking it all up and then some. Plan on setting aside at least 10% of the boat value to be spent every year. So if you have $100,000 in your boat you'll need to set aside a minimum of $10,000 per year for ongoing boat repair,replacement and maintenance.
Cheers and good luck on reaching your dreams, R
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Old 12-12-2017, 18:49   #30
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Re: Full time cruising choices?

We’ve been part time liveaboards for a couple of years, through some cold winters. And now we are spending much more time aboard cruising. And we have two boats in different places so it gets complicated. But our big boat is our principal “home.”

And I came to see that some time last year, at some point it becomes your “home” more than a “boat”. At least for us. Sure we move around a lot, did 5,000 miles last year, it it is still our home. And we want it to be comfortable and our place of refuge. When it’s raging out we want to curl up and listen to the rain beat on the coach roof. And we don’t want to need to do an anchor watch if it’s gonna blow 30knots, we want to sleep. And I want a nice meal once in a while.

Because it’s a 24/7 thing the boat has to be something that exists for us, to take us where we want to go and allow us to enjoy our time when we get there. It needs to be sturdy because I’m human and sometimes do stupid things.

I’m not worried about resale value, we are not selling. I’m not racing, and the Wife doesn’t like to get pounded around so she needs to be more comfortable than fast. And we are pretty much recluses so no need for 6 bunks, one nice comfy bed is fine.

But most of all she needs to be HOME.
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