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Old 17-03-2020, 10:17   #106
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

How about diving equipment? Hulls need to be cleaned, rudders repaired, and who knows what all else? Scuba requires a sophisticated high pressure compressor, snorkel limits time underwater. Hooka run on battery power seems the best solution to me. Interestingly there are some "inexpensive" high pressure compressors showing up for use with PCP (pre charged penumatic) air rifles..... Which also would be a nice thing to have aboard, as they are generally not considered "fire arms", though at sea, other than for piracy concerns they would not find much use.



On a "survival" trip, presumably one would hit areas where reefs are available for a variety... Places like Minnerva Reefs, some of the remote areas of the Line Islands of Kiribati, Bevridge Reef, and others. There are probably hundreds of them.... all of them naturally claimed by someone, and many visited by local fishermen. Everything is someone's territory....... the nature of humanity and our governments.


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Old 17-03-2020, 14:24   #107
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

Chicken Dehydrating experiment results


My product is now complete. I lightly salted each piece with some garlic salt and sprinkled each with a bit of poultry seasoning. All were cooked sous vide in sealed food saver bags at 135 for different lengths of time. 4 hr, 9 hr, 15 hr, 20 hr, and 24 hr before dehydrating.


The 4 hr chicken is pretty chewy and stringy, and the 24 hr product while stringy, has no toughness. It breaks down easily. The optimal level I would say is 15-20 hrs. The difference between 4 and 24 is very striking, and naturally the rest is incremental. The intended use would govern how long it is cooked. I wouldn't recommend 4 hrs for anything I do with dehydrated foods, and 24 hrs is in danger of disintegrating if you throw it into something and cook it. For that application I would suggest about half way... the 15 hr would be about optimal.


For just snacking, I would lean toward about 20 or 24... depending on how chewy you want it.



One change I will make next time is to parboil first to float the fat off. Thigh meat is very fatty. But it is also very flavorful. There is enough fat left in the meat that it will go rancid if kept for a long time without refrigeration. Vacuum sealing may take care of this......... fat and flavor go together, but rancid is not a desirable flavor.


Breast meat would be a better choice, but lacks the flavor of thigh meat.




This meat will reconstitute fairly quickly..... It's chunky and perfect for mixing in with a pasta dish or soup.


Hope this is of interest...... Temp for both sous vide and dehydrator were 130F




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Old 18-03-2020, 15:39   #108
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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Brewing beer or wine onboard is totally feasible....making useful amounts of alcohol fuel is an absurd fantasy entertained only by those with no real practical experience.



My favorite brew vessel (container for brewing, not boat for brewing) is the Fast Ferment 7 gallon poly conical which would be perfect for onboard brewing. It has a large valve at the bottom and a "yeast" ball that collects sediment beneath the valve. I would try to mount this like a sea swing stove. It already is designed with two threaded inserts , and hangs from a wall bracket. It could easily swing on that axis, so the other swing axis would be the only thing to build.

I did about 30 brews in mine in a continuous brew process I developed. I simply brewed 2 gallons a week, removing the yeast ball, and closing the valve prior to pouring the boiling hot wort into what was already there. This sterilized the container more or less, and I threw the contents of the ball back in after it cooled. Prior to the week's addition I drew off 2 gallons into another container for secondary fermentation, and added additional hops. The removed content was allowed to sit for a week or two before bottling........ actually kegging in my case. The system worked perfectly. Never had any problems at all. I would change up the wort with each addition as it suited my fancy based on tasting what went into secondary so the product "drifted" in whatever direction (flavor) interested me.
This is something I have never heard of anybody else trying.......... But it produced a great deal of excellent beer. I don't follow recipes, or try to copy something I made before....I know hops and malts well, having brewed hundreds of brews in the last 40 or more years. I'm not a "McDonalds brewer".... I like variety.

The key to making this work well was a Norwegian folk yeast... for lack of a better term. It is a yeast that has been passed from person to person for centuries, and has never seen the inside of a yeast production lab. It's called Sigmunds Voss Kveik. Traditionally in Norway, you are supposed to scream into the brew when you pitch this yeast. I obtained a horned helmet and sword from the local Sons of Norway, and screamed into the brew when I originally pitched the yeast........ seams to have worked!! I suspect however that a belch, or fart would work as well ;-)


This process would be perfect onboard due to the small boil quantities...


Note: I quit brewing, a few years ago, and worked to shed weight... 50 lbs. I like alcohol .... especially beer, but also hard liquor..... a bit too much.... but it was not doing me any good. I have for several years confined myself to about 1 or 2 drinks a week.


H.W
Thank you , ( i can assure you that i have no desire to brew alcohol fuel !! ) , now your conical ď vessel ď with a drain at the botton iseems like a great idea , maybe a few vertical and horizontal baffles as well ? seems ď vessels ď have moved on a bit since my beer brewing days 😁
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Old 18-03-2020, 17:47   #109
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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Thank you , ( i can assure you that i have no desire to brew alcohol fuel !! ) , now your conical ď vessel ď with a drain at the botton iseems like a great idea , maybe a few vertical and horizontal baffles as well ? seems ď vessels ď have moved on a bit since my beer brewing days ��

The Fast Ferment has very steep sides, and I suspect that mounted like a sea swing you would not have sediment issues. Oddly it comes with a thermowell.... a good idea, but lacks a racking valve. You supposedly drain the sediment off, then rack from the bottom... an idiotic idea IMHO. I drilled a hole at a suitable location and installed a valve designed for an ordinary brew bucket. .... Fortunately I got it right. I've brewed beer, wine, and whiskey wash since I was in my teens ... the latter a bit later...Used all kinds of brew vessels including stainless conicals.... This was my favorite... so was the yeast. A catamaran or trimaran would be the best for brewing but if you have room for it to swing, any boat would work fine... Rack in calm weather. If you wanted to add an extra level of tech, a filtration system.... I've never felt that it was worthwhile, but I've never brewed on a boat.


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Old 20-03-2020, 10:58   #110
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

Owly— I find your “article” to be well written and extremely well thought out. Refreshingly true thank you
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Old 20-03-2020, 11:29   #111
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy




Letís maintain a perspective and not panic. No one dying from a disease is good, but when you look at this chart, keeping in mind the world population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7.7 billion over the same period of time. Mankind has does a pretty good job of finding ways to fight back against diseases.

Here's a little song I wrote
You might want to sing it note for note
Don't worry, be happy
In every life we have some trouble
But when you worry you make it double
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy now
By Bobby McFerrin
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Old 20-03-2020, 15:20   #112
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

Hi Owly and All,
Great thread, Iím currently separated from my Searunner tri by many thousands of miles and no way to get back to the Bahamas. Im a keen all grain brewer and always envisioned brewing my own beer while cruising but found great beer and spirits was so cheap in the US it wasnít worth it. Iím sure in a few years when I travel further Iíll get a basic set up on board. In an old episode of Free Range Sailing Pascale brewed on a remote beach over a fire.
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Old 20-03-2020, 16:52   #113
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

Rose Noelle came adrift at Great Barrier Island in New Zealand, not Australia :-)
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Old 21-03-2020, 08:34   #114
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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Rose Noelle came adrift at Great Barrier Island in New Zealand, not Australia :-)

I've been corrected on that already.........but thanks ;-) My memory is far from perfect.


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Old 21-03-2020, 09:42   #115
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

I keep thinking of ways groups of boats under these circumstances could stay close enough for social / community interaction. The inability to anchor in the open ocean makes this challenging........ collision danger and drifting apart. With long enough lines, and some chain in the middle to accommodate surge, and two boats under sea anchor, getting together for the day or evening on each other's boats would be possible. Children in particular would benefit greatly from interaction. Tying boats closely to each other at sea looks to me like a wreck waiting to happen, but several hundred feet apart, with dinghies to visit each other.......... Staying within a few miles.... again with sea anchors, and with AIS transceivers is reasonable enough.... coming into closer proximity only when you want to visit. With riding sails.... like a Yawl mizzen, it would be possible if there is a breeze to attach a sea anchor to a buoy, and have two boats attached to the same buoy, each mizzen set differently and not have to worry about collision for a period of time I suspect. Not as a long term setup of course. One boat would "own" the chute, and both would be equipped with some sort of trip line. They could also be hooked in tandem. A long floating line with multiple buoys for mooring boats could also probably be made to work so long as the boat at the far end had a riding sail to keep the line in tension and the chute inflated.

Community is important, and would be even more important under the circumstance of being isolated for several years.



These are seemingly trivial issues............but assuming years of isolation they would loom increasingly large if for no other reason, mental health. Humans are gregarious by nature, and isolation is not good for us. We don't need hundreds of others, but it is best for us to have a community of some sort beyond our immediate family.


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Old 21-03-2020, 10:07   #116
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

I would think a compressor for the PCP's would serve a nice double duty for recharging the canisters that power a pneumatic speargun. Even a free-diver could use one of those, not only for protection, but for hunting dinner...

If you're going to use one of those for breathable air, be VERY VERY VERY careful to make sure the air is completely filtered and there are ZERO contaminants entering in from air intake, OR at some point in the compressor mechanical. A "breathable air" filter on both the input AND output might be a really good idea, if you are not 101% sure about the compressor's operation...

Please be safe...
We don't want to be sorrowed by your loss.
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Old 21-03-2020, 10:14   #117
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

The "garbage patch(s)" as a resource is worth thinking about. Contrary to the popular image the density and particle size is low enough that it is not visible from the surface or from space for the most part. It offers two useful values. The most obvious is fuel. A trawl using a very fine net will yield tiny plastic particles. Those could be burned as fuel directly, and as I described in a previous post pyrolysed for motor fuel.


Pyrolysis is a well known process, and technically simple. Plastics are made from petroleum and at high temps they will vaporize into gasses that can be condensed (mostly) into something similar, which will serve for diesel. What cannot be condensed into liquid, can be burned as a vapor to contribute heat for the process. Basically it's a "free" process in that you could power it by it's own product. The waste heat from the process can be used for various things such as heating water, distilling water, cooking, etc.



There are articles on the process online, as well as at least several Utube videos. It is possible to build something like this on a small enough scale that you could reasonably carry something like this aboard. It could be a shared device in a community of boats.



The other "resource" that the "garbage patch" has is that it is a gyre, where ocean currents tend to move things toward it's geographical center. If you sailed off the coast of CA headed toward Hawaii for example, then dropped sails and put out a sea anchor, over time, you would probably find yourself in the middle of this so called "garbage patch". It's potentially a way to stay "on station" more or less. For a community group of boats, this would seem to at least have some potential value..... Though "on station" could represent hundreds of miles from the geographic center at times. You are all subject to the same currents and other forces, though your boats may react differently due to windage and other factors.


The "garbage patch" is hardly a sterile lifeless zone.. there is plenty of marine life there. The other aspect to this is trash of various kinds can be a resource. A large percentage of it is fishing gear for example.


While it would be depressing to set up camp for any length of time in the heart of this, it should be regarded as a resource.........


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Old 21-03-2020, 12:51   #118
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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I would think a compressor for the PCP's would serve a nice double duty for recharging the canisters that power a pneumatic speargun. Even a free-diver could use one of those, not only for protection, but for hunting dinner...

If you're going to use one of those for breathable air, be VERY VERY VERY careful to make sure the air is completely filtered and there are ZERO contaminants entering in from air intake, OR at some point in the compressor mechanical. A "breathable air" filter on both the input AND output might be a really good idea, if you are not 101% sure about the compressor's operation...

Please be safe...
We don't want to be sorrowed by your loss.

I'm afraid my loss would be mourned more by myself than anybody else ;-).... In any case if there is oil in the system, at least in the past Castor Bean oil was the standard.... Once had a compressor that had that oil in it for that reason........There is probably a better oil now. Filters are a given...... A some of these are advertised as also being suitable for scuba...........But they are made in China.


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Old 26-03-2020, 10:18   #119
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... after a few months at sea....

The picture a few months along:



Here we are.....18 yachts hanging out at sea in the North Pacific, most of us independently made the decision to flee so sea. We found each other through a radio network, most of us tracking each other daily on our various satellite communication and radio systems. Some have SSB some just marine radio, some full satellite communication systems, some use texting via the Garmin Inreach.... it has taken a month or more for many of us to discover that we are in fact not alone out here, though in the vastness of the Pacific it may seem so. A few have turned back to shore to take their chances with everybody else, some turned away by landsmen fearful that they might be carrying the pestilence, have realized that the decision they made is irreversible, and they are out here for the duration. The reality of that bold decision to take to the sea and the consequences it entails is beginning to sink in. Our supplies have become increasingly precious as that reality sets in, and we are grappling with just how to ration them.... for how long will we need to ration them. People are far more serious about finding foods from the sea. Sharing ideas for catching fish, how to cook squid, what seaweed is edible and how to prepare and use it... but there is not a great deal of that in the open ocean. Sails are kept tightly covered in the realization of their life expectancy, and boats allowed to drift with the ocean currents. Fabric and cordage, and spares are being seen as being precious commodities. People are killing and eating dolphins for some red meat, and have tried seabirds, but found them tough stringy, and fishy tasting. With the cataclysmic events ashore, they are venturing into areas designated as marine reserves to harvest creatures found only in shallow water, and to raid bird nests for eggs. They are gradually coalescing into a "community" if a far flung one, occasionally gathering in groups of a few boats Some marriages are on the rocks, held together only for survival reasons, and some swaps have taken place..not necessarily ideal, but the best available under the circumstances. Fortunately there are people of many professions and many walks of life including at least one doctor, but rendezvousing with him can be a challenge, and he mostly helps people over the radio. There are a couple pregnancies.... an inconvenient complication, but life goes on no matter what.
Most people are adapting fairly well...... there is no other choice. For relationships and families, it is a huge challenge, and there is no choice but to demand everybody do their share, and abide by rules and rationing. Some friendships and marriages deepen and strengthen as partners and friends rise to the occasion. The biggest challenge is boredom...... drifting is not sailing. Radio discussion is currently over the timing for moving south of the equator to avoid the cyclone season, and where. There is great concern about lightening when passing through the convergence zone.... How best to protect electronics, and how to prevent a strike from blowing a hole in your boat.... drag a chain over the side from a shroud chain plate so there is a safe path for lightening rather than it blowing random holes. People are working on their boats steadily to harden them against storms. Repurposing materials from various places to make storm shutters... calking things if they have calk, discussing the merits of the Jordan Drogue, versus a sea anchor or some other drogue, the Abbot Drogue is popular with the multihull crowd....... Lying ahull is advocated by a few. Weather reports have stopped, all we have is our barometers and some meterological knowledge, some valid, some verging on superstition, all widely shared and argued over. We all know that ultimately we will face some pretty serious gales.... perhaps survival class storms. Standing rigging is checked and rechecked, ideas employed to back up areas that can potentially fail. One boat has already had a rudder loss, and people came together pitching in materials and experience to make a good jury rig that will hopefully last the duration. Self steering systems have given trouble, some failing beyond repair. It is a story of challenge after challenge, and people coming together to help each other....knowing that their turn may be next.



That's the story so far............. Feel free to add to it. What challenges and successes do you see?



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Old 26-03-2020, 10:42   #120
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

So you've taken up a sea dayak existence without the sea dayaks survival skills base in a place where the climate is not suitable and ultimately you are totally dependent upon the products of the civilizations you are fleeing. Is that prudent?
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