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Old 16-03-2020, 13:31   #91
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

These are great ideas. How can I get started 6 months ago to be ready for today?
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Old 16-03-2020, 13:38   #92
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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I've never distilled (except in chemistry classes), but agree with Owly. It's just not feasible for a boat. On land, sure, but not on a boat.

.
Next time I'm enjoying an adult beverage with someone who has been running a still on their boat for years, I'll have to remember to tell them that its not feasible to do so.
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Old 16-03-2020, 13:47   #93
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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Next time I'm enjoying an adult beverage with someone who has been running a still on their boat for years, I'll have to remember to tell them that its not feasible to do so.
How much production? No need to be enigmatic about it. Explain... We're here to learn.

I can distill in a couple of pots, but to have serious production seems to me to be beyond the limits of most modest sized cruising boats. Especially if one is, you know, actually cruising (and not just living on a boat).
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Old 16-03-2020, 14:01   #94
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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"But realistically most of us are not going to try to exist independently at sea"

Indeed... probably most are of this category. I have found this thread most interesting because it is providing exactly that...how to exist independently at sea.

I think dependency is one of the worst things about society, If everyone tended to their own needs in a sustainable way we wouldn't have half the problems we do today.

Nothing irks me more than when people make their problems mine.. or make my problems theirs. Preppers are nothing like folks seeking self sustainability and leaving a small footprint.Preppers are waiting for the end so they can be the last one standing in a broken system. They are part and parcel of the problem and do not seek an overhaul of their routine and gluttonous lifestyle.

Sailing and living a frugal and sustainable life is for me the apex....of course it is easier to do on land but I have no desire to be tethered to a handful of acres surrounded by "those people" LOL..

Ill take off grid living on a sail boat following the weather eating sprouts and fish over 20 acres in the woods freezing my arse eating moose hotdogs...which I would not suggest ever eating.. probably the worst game product I have ever had.

Anyway, I really appreciate all the info everyone has provided here regardless if that is to temporarily escape a calamity or to be truly independent. I have found soo many great ideas and have been inspired to research many of these topics further.

Thanks for sharing!



Paul:
I'm with you......... if you can't be part of the solution, at least try not to be part of the problem. This thread is not about reality, or about seriously being a "prepper"..... as you say, it is about independence and the sea. I doubt any of us expect to load up family and friends and take to the sea for survival from pestilence.... hence "flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy. Sailing from one yacht club bar to the next is for some folks... not for me. A survival challenge would be far more interesting, and I love the solitude of the open sea and the wild places...... of which there are precious few left. The places I roamed as a teen never seeing anybody except those with me for days on end, now require reservations!! Unimaginable in those days..... Humanity is so overpopulated that it's pathetic........ and people think we can go on and on like this. Our economic system, perversely is addicted to endless growth....... we need to move beyond that paradigm. It'll all come to a crashing stop someday...... or grind slowly to a halt over many years.
At least at sea you can put everything behind you for awhile. It would be an interesting challenge to set to sea with several groups on separate boats, and just see how independent one could be and for how long..........I don't imagine that true independence is remotely possible at sea........There are things that the sea cannot provide us........ A year, two yeas, three...... might be possible. I don't know, but it would be interesting to find out.



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Old 16-03-2020, 15:02   #95
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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How much production? No need to be enigmatic about it. Explain... We're here to learn.

I can distill in a couple of pots, but to have serious production seems to me to be beyond the limits of most modest sized cruising boats. Especially if one is, you know, actually cruising (and not just living on a boat).
Post 74 explains it well enough

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3095195

The ones I have been on doing it have a modified 25 litre tea urn - you can buy the "water purification" towers from home brew shops.

They do use power, so better suited to larger vessels with a large solar array or be prepared for several hours of genset usage.

Cooling water is simply circulated from water tank, through condenser and back to water tank with a suitable continuous duty pump.
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Old 16-03-2020, 15:28   #96
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

For a perky taste treat, try sprouting some fenugreek seeds.

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Old 16-03-2020, 15:29   #97
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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I've thought a lot about maintenance....... sailboats break, and the more complex they are, the more maintenance there is. The mast, sails, and rigging are all subject to lots of failure points.
The modern junk rig with a free standing mast eliminates countless maintenance / failure points from the absurdly complex rats nest of standing rigging to the highly tensioned fabric in the sails of a Bermuda Rig. It eliminates the need for winches, travelers, vang, and preventer, and what all else? It eliminates the need for chainplates, and the leaks that often go with them. It eliminates all reefing and furling gear. It makes tacking a matter of just putting the tiller over and letting the boom swing across, which it will do fairly gently due to sail area ahead of the mast counter balancing... then adjusting the sheet. It eliminates having to do anything on the foredeck.... or at the mast, but it simply drops into the lazy jacks like a Venetian blind, one panel at a time, the battens holding the works down so you don't have to tie in reefs. The head sail and foresail are integrated into the same sail. Each panel is separated by a batten from each adjacent panel, and each batten carries the loads directly to the mast, so not only is the fabric load a fraction of what it is on a Bermuda rig, but a tear will not spread between panels.......
It's the rig I want.... I want a rig where I can reef or tack without setting my coffee cup down or spilling it..... A rig that a child or small woman can manage without help.
It's also the rig I want because you don't have a bunch of sail bags stuffed into the V Berth, and it's lightly loaded and simply constructed such that in a pinch you could make a sail from blue tarp or bed sheets if that was all you could find. The originals were made from bamboo matting.......


I don't own a junk rigged boat.........but I fully intend to for those and other reasons.


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Old 16-03-2020, 16:10   #98
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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..... if you can't be part of the solution, at least try not to be part of the problem.
Ha... and I thought I coined that phrase . That's a big part of the reason we've gone cruising. If anyone cares, it's the "cessation" part of our little mantra: CLAFC.

It's not about running away, it's about actively choosing to live smaller; to stop being part of the problem. A modest cruising boat is one way to do this.

It's not the only way, by any means. And it may not even be the best way. But living on a smallish sailboat is conducive to living a life that demands less from our global ecosystem -- at least compared to our peers in the developed world. Compared to much of the global population, not so much....

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...I love the solitude of the open sea and the wild places...... of which there are precious few left. The places I roamed as a teen never seeing anybody except those with me for days on end, now require reservations!! Unimaginable in those days.....
I've expereinced similar things. The places I used to roam as a teenager and now overrun with people. But the good news is there are still wild places that don't require you to be a super-human explorer. I've spent most of my cruising life in such places.

Starting with the north shore of Lake Superior, where could easily go weeks without seeing another person. I'm now based in central Newfoundland where once out a day or so the people are few and far between. Even in their thickest, there are relatively few folk here. Last season we took abotu two months to sail about 800 NM around the northern peninsula and shared an anchorage with another recreational boat exactly once. Although we did see a fair number of local fishing vessels around the few ports.

My sense is that there are still lots of places off the beaten path. It might require going to where the butter never melts, or these days, where there's no Internet access, but it is still possible to get away from it all.

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It would be an interesting challenge to set to sea with several groups on separate boats, and just see how independent one could be and for how long..........I don't imagine that true independence is remotely possible at sea........There are things that the sea cannot provide us........ A year, two yeas, three...... might be possible. I don't know, but it would be interesting to find out.
Indeed. During our cruising season (May to October) I typically spend at least three months off any dock. This is what we do for fun. I'm sure I could equip our boat for a year without too much trouble. The only real challenge would be water. I'd have to develop a better rain catchment system, or be more active in finding natural sources. Or maybe get that watermaker I've been pining over .
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Old 16-03-2020, 16:15   #99
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Post 74 explains it well enough

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3095195

The ones I have been on doing it have a modified 25 litre tea urn - you can buy the "water purification" towers from home brew shops.

They do use power, so better suited to larger vessels with a large solar array or be prepared for several hours of genset usage.

Cooling water is simply circulated from water tank, through condenser and back to water tank with a suitable continuous duty pump.
Thanks Simi. I guess I missed that post. It still doesn't sound like something the typical modest cruising vessel can very reasonably manage. But I see from your "Boat" identifier that we may differ on the definition of what "modest" means .

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For a perky taste treat, try sprouting some fenugreek seeds.

You've got me intrigued. I'll look for some the next time I restock.
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Old 16-03-2020, 16:30   #100
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

Reid Stowe...1152 days with out touching land or resupplying.. Of course his vessel had far more crew on it and was much larger than I would have but thats pretty a amazing feat!
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Old 16-03-2020, 21:39   #101
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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It's a theme that has been repeated again and again from the Noah story to the present. As a teen, I enjoyed the book Earth Abides, where the author painted a post apocalyptic picture of scattered survivors of a great plague gradually finding each other and creating communities, of the environmental and social changes, and numerous other details. This seems the stuff of fantasy when looked at through the lens of modern times, but humanity has more than once been close to extinction in our distant past, and will be again.... hopefully not in my lifetime! Covid 19 is pretty minor in the scheme of things (I may not say that from my hospital bed about to gasp my last breath)..........But it is a wake up call. Weather the inevitable collapse comes from disease, climate change, warfare, asteroid strike, or some other unforeseen possibility, it will come. I grew up during the cold war, and did nuclear drills in elementary school... Get under you desk, cover your head with your hands, place your head firmly between your knees and kiss your ass goodbye....... Or something like that. Well over half a century ago, I don't remember the details exactly, but I do remember the deep dread, the nightmares, and of course the Cuban Missile Crisis....By the way it was Kennedy, not Khrushchev that "blinked"......... That "blink" was an agreement to leave Cuba alone. Khrushchev was the better chess player, and that was the goal from the outset..... But that's another story. It ended peacefully and that is all that matters to me!


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Old 16-03-2020, 21:44   #102
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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Somebody asked how you dry beer.......... You don't. Though I designed (on paper) a machine to freeze dry beer.... just for fun. I've been a home brewer since my teens. I recently quit brewing after brewing many hundreds of batches of beer. You just brew it on board. I don't like brewing with dry malt extract....... though I started many years ago with liquid extract and dry extract.......But you can make excellent beer from it, and there is absolutely no reason why you cannot make a "sea swing" fermenter. DME doesn't weigh much or take up a lot of space. Nothing I know of that you can grow aboard (realistically) or harvest from the sea is suitable for brewing. Carbs are one thing that are not in abundance at sea... or so it would seem. Brewing itself is stupid easy.



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I always fancied brewing on the boat , but surely even on a catamaran one good storm and the sediment is all over the place again , and all those bottles, where to keep them ??
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Old 17-03-2020, 05:36   #103
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

COVID-19, transmitted by airborne droplets, and has an R0 of between 1.4–3.9.
If the number of cases were to continue to double every three days, there would be about a hundred million cases in the United States by May.
Covid-19 is a tougher adversary than the seasonal flu: Its R0 (“R nought”) is probably over 2, indicating that it’s more contagious than the typical flu. R0 estimates the number of people an average infected person spreads the disease to. “R0 is important because if it’s greater than 1, the infection will probably keep spreading, and if it’s less than 1, the outbreak will likely peter out

“Early Transmission Dynamics in Wuhan, China, of Novel Coronavirus–Infected Pneumonia” ~ by
Qun Li et al.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2001316

“Pattern of early human-to-human transmission of Wuhan 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV), December 2019 to January 2020" ~ by Julien Riou and Christian L. Althaus
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7001239/

“Time-varying transmission dynamics of Novel Coronavirus Pneumonia in China” ~ by Tao Liu et al.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...01.25.919787v2

“ovel coronavirus 2019-nCoV: early estimation of epidemiological parameters and epidemic predictions” ~ by Jonathan M Read et al.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....23.20018549v2

“COVID-19 SARS-CoV-2 preprints from medRxiv and bioRxiv” - 539 Articles
https://connect.medrxiv.org/relate/content/181




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Old 17-03-2020, 07:25   #104
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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I always fancied brewing on the boat , but surely even on a catamaran one good storm and the sediment is all over the place again , and all those bottles, where to keep them ??

Brewing beer or wine onboard is totally feasible....making useful amounts of alcohol fuel is an absurd fantasy entertained only by those with no real practical experience.



My favorite brew vessel (container for brewing, not boat for brewing) is the Fast Ferment 7 gallon poly conical which would be perfect for onboard brewing. It has a large valve at the bottom and a "yeast" ball that collects sediment beneath the valve. I would try to mount this like a sea swing stove. It already is designed with two threaded inserts , and hangs from a wall bracket. It could easily swing on that axis, so the other swing axis would be the only thing to build.

I did about 30 brews in mine in a continuous brew process I developed. I simply brewed 2 gallons a week, removing the yeast ball, and closing the valve prior to pouring the boiling hot wort into what was already there. This sterilized the container more or less, and I threw the contents of the ball back in after it cooled. Prior to the week's addition I drew off 2 gallons into another container for secondary fermentation, and added additional hops. The removed content was allowed to sit for a week or two before bottling........ actually kegging in my case. The system worked perfectly. Never had any problems at all. I would change up the wort with each addition as it suited my fancy based on tasting what went into secondary so the product "drifted" in whatever direction (flavor) interested me.
This is something I have never heard of anybody else trying.......... But it produced a great deal of excellent beer. I don't follow recipes, or try to copy something I made before....I know hops and malts well, having brewed hundreds of brews in the last 40 or more years. I'm not a "McDonalds brewer".... I like variety.

The key to making this work well was a Norwegian folk yeast... for lack of a better term. It is a yeast that has been passed from person to person for centuries, and has never seen the inside of a yeast production lab. It's called Sigmunds Voss Kveik. Traditionally in Norway, you are supposed to scream into the brew when you pitch this yeast. I obtained a horned helmet and sword from the local Sons of Norway, and screamed into the brew when I originally pitched the yeast........ seams to have worked!! I suspect however that a belch, or fart would work as well ;-)


This process would be perfect onboard due to the small boil quantities...


Note: I quit brewing, a few years ago, and worked to shed weight... 50 lbs. I like alcohol .... especially beer, but also hard liquor..... a bit too much.... but it was not doing me any good. I have for several years confined myself to about 1 or 2 drinks a week.


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Old 17-03-2020, 10:02   #105
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Re: Fleeing Pestilence.... flight of fancy... or rather voyage of fancy

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Reid Stowe...1152 days with out touching land or resupplying.. Of course his vessel had far more crew on it and was much larger than I would have but thats pretty a amazing feat!

Thanks for that.......... I'd been fishing for his name. I'd read about him, but sometimes finding the right search term is difficult. He actually had a crew of 2 originally, and later was solo as far as I can find out. He subsisted largely on beans, rice, pasta, fish, and sprouts, though he had a garden aboard before capsizing.



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