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Old 30-06-2017, 05:13   #61
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Pretty sure the OP has posted he is going to pass on this boat (just in case some are trying to win the thread)
Does that mean I won?
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Old 30-06-2017, 05:25   #62
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

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Go ! Go now ! Don't look back. Don't care about what anyone thinks. If your wife,and family are on board, go. You will regret not trying, more than doing. Dry land is going no where. I started dreaming about a life at sea at 14,after reading Rich man Poor man. Pulled the trigger at 50. Don't make my mistake, and listen to the doubters. Your kids will learn more at sea,than they ever will in school. Make the jump. I've been at sea for 7 years. 3 hurricanes, no telling how many tropical storms, and been run over by a waterspout. You can see the video at YouTube: Davis Island thunderstorm on a sailboat. Turned out to be a waterspout according to the police officer I talked to after. I doubt this opportunity will ever reappear. Good luck,and fair winds !


He's right!!!! I am 55 and have been aboard 3 years. I get asked what regrets do you have? I say "That I didn't do it earlier". We are a family of 6 aboard in N. FL, the Keys and Bahamas over the course of a given year. We homeschool too.
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Old 30-06-2017, 06:23   #63
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

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Originally Posted by sailinbob1 View Post
Go ! Go now ! Don't look back. Don't care about what anyone thinks. If your wife,and family are on board, go. You will regret not trying, more than doing. Dry land is going no where. I started dreaming about a life at sea at 14,after reading Rich man Poor man. Pulled the trigger at 50. Don't make my mistake, and listen to the doubters. Your kids will learn more at sea,than they ever will in school. Make the jump. I've been at sea for 7 years. 3 hurricanes, no telling how many tropical storms, and been run over by a waterspout. You can see the video at YouTube: Davis Island thunderstorm on a sailboat. Turned out to be a waterspout according to the police officer I talked to after. I doubt this opportunity will ever reappear. Good luck,and fair winds !
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Originally Posted by rwells36 View Post
He's right!!!! I am 55 and have been aboard 3 years. I get asked what regrets do you have? I say "That I didn't do it earlier". We are a family of 6 aboard in N. FL, the Keys and Bahamas over the course of a given year. We homeschool too.
Wow! That's great advice. Just go out and buy any old POS (piece of ***) wreck, sink a ton of money and time into it and end up many thousands upside down financially, then "Go now! Don't look back," as he crams 4 people onto a 34ft boat.

Following this sort of advice, the OP would probably never leave the dry storage yard and end his marriage in divorce. Brilliant

The OP was looking for a vacation home, not a financial nightmare.
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Old 30-06-2017, 06:28   #64
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinbob1 View Post
Go ! Go now ! Don't look back. Don't care about what anyone thinks. If your wife,and family are on board, go. You will regret not trying, more than doing. Dry land is going no where. I started dreaming about a life at sea at 14,after reading Rich man Poor man. Pulled the trigger at 50. Don't make my mistake, and listen to the doubters. Your kids will learn more at sea,than they ever will in school. Make the jump. I've been at sea for 7 years. 3 hurricanes, no telling how many tropical storms, and been run over by a waterspout. You can see the video at YouTube: Davis Island thunderstorm on a sailboat. Turned out to be a waterspout according to the police officer I talked to after. I doubt this opportunity will ever reappear. Good luck,and fair winds !
Sounds like good advice.

Living in a 700 sqft home already with 4 people is a huge step in the right direction. Our cabin is about that size - but we have too much stuff and it limits us to less than 600 of those sqft.

You have the engine running, and sounds like you have the aptitude to put it back in the boat.

You can do a thorough bottom job yourself and save big $$$. Only trick is finding the blisters that have drained and dried up by now. Aside from that, you can make the bottom, rudder, through-hulls, etc as good as new for a fraction of what it would cost if it were in the water and needed to haul it.

Sure, a non-running engine would make for the $6,000 appraisal - but - you've already changed that. If there's nothing major listed on the survey as needing attention (aside from the engine & rigging) then it should already be worth much more than $6K.

Rigging? Sounds like you have the moxie to make your own shrouds and stays. (Betting the old ones are... Old) do again, you're ahead of the game.

Yes, moving it is a major expense. Then again, if you're in Michigan, you could drop it in closer to you on whichever Great Lake you're near and sail it to Florida. Still, you're looking at ~$5K to put it on a truck and get it off the truck into the water. (YMMV - that was the latest I was quoted for a "short" trip.)

35' is a more manageable size for you and your family to learn on. You can always buy a bigger boat later.

Yes, you'll spend more than you expect to by the time it's in the water and sailing. That said, you may well be able to sail it for a few years, then sell it for more than it cost you (assuming mostly diy labor) and turn that cash into your new boat.
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Old 30-06-2017, 06:57   #65
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

Typically the cheaper the boat is the more it's gonna cost you in the long run & free boats are usually the most expensive boats you can BUY. Boat repairs take a lot more time & cost a lot more than you'd ever expect. However, asking strangers who've never even seen the boat if it's a good deal might be foolish. If it just needs the Yanmar put back in & the mast raised to be ready to go it could be a real score. Of course the chances of that are pretty slim but we don't know because we haven't seen it. Here's a great thread from Steady Hand that you might want to check out: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ds-147098.html
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Old 30-06-2017, 07:17   #66
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

I like to sail. I'm not a fan of spending a year or two on the hard doing boat repair. IMHO, you can buy a ready to sail boat for the same price as a project boat, and save 2 years hard labour. Wouldn't you rather be sailing than sanding and grinding in a boatyard?

Here's a local example to prove my point...this 33 footer will sell for well under $10k usd (maybe a lot under) and is super clean and ready to sail today.

FWIW, I have no affiliation with the seller, I just like boats.

1976 Irwin 33 MKll | sailboats | Kingston | Kijiji
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Old 30-06-2017, 07:29   #67
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

Rent a boat of the same size&age and go for a week's vacation. You will get plenty of insight and feedback.

It is all up to how much adventure the people really want and how much they like each other.

When the company is good, and where all parties want to have some sailing&fun, no boat is too small.

Cheers,
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Old 30-06-2017, 08:15   #68
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

The boat is large enough if your family is into it. That's a big if, however. We lived aboard a Westsail 32 as a couple and had no problems. Met other families cruising in a similar sized boat with older kids and they seemed to be doing just fine. Cruising is a bit different than living aboard at a marina, however. If you are living in a small apartment now and enjoy camping, the boat could be an easy adjustment. Your kids are getting to that difficult time called teenagers. Fortunately most families survive those years. The kids will be off the boat in a few more years so it will mostly be you and your wife. The boat will be a lot less crowded after they are on their own. Know that we felt the W32 was a palace after living in the VW bus.

Owned a Morgan 35 which had two quarter berths aft, one on either side, a dinette on one side of the main cabin and galley on the other, then a head and storage with a V berth forward. That would be an ideal setup for your family. Give the quarter berths to the kids and you and wife take the V berth. Have an awning made so you can live in the cockpit as well as below when at anchor/marina. If the boat doesn't have the layout you can modify the interior anyway you want within reason. All it takes is time and money, way more time and money than you estimate. We lived in a VW bus and slowly moved into our Westsail 32 kit as we finished areas so it can be done. We were in our 20's then and a lot less set in air ways than we are now. Don't know if our marriage would survive those conditions now.

If the boat has been in covered storage all these years, most everything will probably be in decent condition as long as rats or other vermin haven't got into things like the sails, etc. You've got the old atomic 4 running so should just be a matter of changing out the old hoses, impeller, etc to have that completely functional. Gas tank could be an issue so carefully check it out before loading on 20 gallons of gasoline. Batteries will be shot with replacement running above a couple hundred dollars depending on quantity and type.

Hire a rigger to step the mast after you launch. The yard will have a crane and the rigger will know where everything is and supply any missing wires. Shouldn't take more than a couple of hours of the riggers time and the crane rental. Maybe a $1,000 or less, certainly not more than $2,000 even with replacement of possibly missing parts. Once again, with inside storage, the running rigging and the standing rigging should still be in decent condition commensurate with it's age when stored. Down the line you'll have to replace it but it will get you started.

Your budget is probably reasonable if you don't go crazy buying everything you new at retail. Have found Ebay and Craig's list a great source of stuff at cheap cost compared to new. If the boat doesn't have roller furling on the headsail, you may want to drop $3,000 plus for new on buying the gear and modifying the headsails to fit. There will undoubtedly be a lot of things you want to add or modify as time goes by but that's the case with any boat. As others have said, you're getting into a boat that has an upper value of $20,000 even if it has all modern equipment and everything else is in good condition. Considerably less value if condition and equipment aren't up to snuff. But then that's the nature of boat ownership. If you are buying a boat as an investment I've a got a good bridge in Brooklyn i'll sell you instead.
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Old 30-06-2017, 15:07   #69
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

I raised two children. I know what it costs to raise kids, and I know what kinds of personal space they need. I know what you need when they get sick? I know what they need as they grow. I know all about their emotional development and what happens to their needs for personal space when they reach puberty.

Ask anyone who says you can do this if they actually raised kids and if they were the same sex.

Kids need friends too. Raising kids in a very tiny space is possible but not optimal for the growth of the kids. I know this personally, and I know it from a long career professionally with children. You can do it pretty easily until the kids are about 10 in terms of their needs for personal space(though not necessarily for sickness, clothing, school, etc.) After age 10 everything changes as they go into puberty.

This isn't a 6 week vacation. I did that in a tiny camper with the kids until they were in high school. Even so, my son wanted to sleep in his own tent outside the camper to get away from sleeping in the same room area as his sister. A vacation of 6 weeks is a far cry from every day.
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Old 02-07-2017, 22:56   #70
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

So back to the photo you chose, which one is your child bride?
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Old 16-07-2017, 17:29   #71
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

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I raised two children. I know what it costs to raise kids, and I know what kinds of personal space they need. I know what you need when they get sick? I know what they need as they grow. I know all about their emotional development and what happens to their needs for personal space when they reach puberty.



Ask anyone who says you can do this if they actually raised kids and if they were the same sex.



Kids need friends too. Raising kids in a very tiny space is possible but not optimal for the growth of the kids. I know this personally, and I know it from a long career professionally with children. You can do it pretty easily until the kids are about 10 in terms of their needs for personal space(though not necessarily for sickness, clothing, school, etc.) After age 10 everything changes as they go into puberty.



This isn't a 6 week vacation. I did that in a tiny camper with the kids until they were in high school. Even so, my son wanted to sleep in his own tent outside the camper to get away from sleeping in the same room area as his sister. A vacation of 6 weeks is a far cry from every day.


I do not doubt your experience one iota. However, yours isn't necessarily normative for everyone. I have been married 32 years, have 9 children and 5 grandchildren and though some points you make are valid, by and large my experience has been different than yours with regard to tight spaces and puberty.

No. Living aboard with a family isn't for everyone but folks should feel free to come to their on conclusions; on their own terms.
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Old 16-07-2017, 18:50   #72
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

Not to mention class and cultural differences, pretty entitled to present US bourgeois expectations as if they were universal imperatives for wellness.

Raise kids in a little grass hut with love and attention they'll be fine.
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Old 17-07-2017, 04:09   #73
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

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Not to mention class and cultural differences, pretty entitled to present US bourgeois expectations as if they were universal imperatives for wellness.

Raise kids in a little grass hut with love and attention they'll be fine.


Touché
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Old 17-07-2017, 05:00   #74
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

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This isn't a 6 week vacation. I did that in a tiny camper with the kids until they were in high school. Even so, my son wanted to sleep in his own tent outside the camper to get away from sleeping in the same room area as his sister. A vacation of 6 weeks is a far cry from every day.
Actually, the OP just wants a boat for 6-week family vacations, not to live aboard and raise their kids.
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Old 17-07-2017, 05:16   #75
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Re: Family of 4 in a Small Liveaboard, Courting Disaster?

Even more so then! Booking our grass hut on AirBNB as we speak 8-)
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