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Old 13-08-2020, 14:24   #61
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

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As boat size goes up I would guess upkeep cost is exponential.
As a general rule I would say new construction cost is cubed (not exponential). Cost to build at any particular shipyard is generally proportional to displacement, which is relatable to volume:

A boat 40'x14'x2.5'= 1,680cf * 0.4 block coefficient X 64lbs/cf = 36,000 lbs
A boat 50'x16'x3.5'= 72,000 lbs
A boat 65'x18'x4.5'= 135,000 lbs

However, Sailorboy was referring to the Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat. No way that is cubed. Marine fees are usually based on length. That is linear. A 65ft boat costs 50% more to moor than a 40ft.

Cost of soaps and grease and mops to wash it are negligible in the big picture.

How often do you really have to buy a new set of sails... 10 years - How does that calculate?

Bottom paint costs more, and is squared (based on area needed to paint). However in reality, if you are cruising then you can easily go 3 years between haul and painting.

Sailorboy I commend you for making an analysis, but your numbers are all over the place. How about nice and simple, what is the annual cost to keep your 31ft versus 41ft models? And if you are "cruising" then what is your assumption for staying in a marina... 50% of the nights... 1% of the nights?

IMO the extra costs for full time cruising in a big boat is nothing compared to the extra comfort factor, but of course it all depends on your budget.
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Old 13-08-2020, 14:37   #62
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

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How about nice and simple, what is the annual cost to keep your 31ft versus 41ft models? I said there is an extra $100 in general "stuff" for the 41' over the 30'. While I repair and maintenance lots of stuff on the boat, very rarely is the item itself more expense because the of the boat size. A water pump, head part, etc. is the same no matter the boat size. Yes there are small items here and there like thicker lines, but really now that is a gnat in the overall cruising budget

And if you are "cruising" then what is your assumption for staying in a marina... 50% of the nights... 1% of the nights? I have no assumptions! All my dollar numbers comes right off my spreadsheet and costs that I have posted for the last 46 months.

IMO the extra costs for full time cruising in a big boat is nothing compared to the extra comfort factor, but of course it all depends on your budget.
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Old 13-08-2020, 22:24   #63
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

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Bottom paint costs more, and is squared (based on area needed to paint). However in reality, if you are cruising then you can easily go 3 years between haul and painting.
18 mths is pushing it for us and I do get the hookah going 2 or 3 times during that time.
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Old 13-08-2020, 23:51   #64
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

Sailorboy to make it a 100% comparison you need to buy my family a 31 foot yacht then pay all our expenses as we sail/follow you around for a year. We would be happy to be your guinea pigs.
No doubt your figures show its cheaper for you. But that is just your experience, others I am sure will have different costs.
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Old 14-08-2020, 01:22   #65
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

What Sailorboy calculates sounds right to me. One should not confuse acquisition cost with running cost. Acquisition cost is a linesr function of displacement, comparing boats of like type and quality. So much so that when I was working on a custom build the yard quoted me per ton. So a 40 boat will cost about double a 30 foot boat to acquire. But running costs are not proportionate as Sailorboy has demonstrated.
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Old 17-08-2020, 08:29   #66
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

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I wonder if making the jump from 40-50 would be a linear increase in cost. Also, I wonder about long term ownership. New sails. Replacing rigging. Motor. Electrical ect. Do these systems increase exponentially with size? How do new sails and rigging compare in price between a 30 and 40 foot boat?

I feel like "Living" on a 31 foot sailboat would be pretty gritty living. That jump to 40 feet is massive in terms of living conditions. From 40 to 50 feet seems like it would really start to provide comfort.
I agree. I live on a 50' sailboat, and most of my home time and lifestyle is just me living on my boat and not sailing oceans. I wanted a comfortable home, with AC/Heat, separate shower, etc....and you just can't get those comforts in a small boat without significant mods.

As for cost comparisons, it is really interesting to consider, but a hard comparison to make on a boat-by-boat basis. Slip rental and other services based on the size of the boat are clearly more costly, and a larger ship comes with more stuff that can break, but how do you put a price on comfort? At my senior age, I value comfort and systems that work a lot more than the money I could have saved by having a smaller boat (even if less costly).

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Old 17-08-2020, 08:46   #67
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

Conventional wisdom says a 10 foot increase in length means doubling your maintenance costs

Much bigger sails , engine, rig, winches, etc.etc.etc

Could e wrong but my experience is that it is not far off
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Old 17-08-2020, 08:54   #68
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

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Originally Posted by Dpackie View Post
I wonder if making the jump from 40-50 would be a linear increase in cost. Also, I wonder about long term ownership. New sails. Replacing rigging. Motor. Electrical ect. Do these systems increase exponentially with size? How do new sails and rigging compare in price between a 30 and 40 foot boat?

I feel like "Living" on a 31 foot sailboat would be pretty gritty living. That jump to 40 feet is massive in terms of living conditions. From 40 to 50 feet seems like it would really start to provide comfort.
A few years back I was looking at the cost of installing A/C on a 39’ boat. You can double that on a 50’ boat. Winches, Sails, Running Rigging, Standing Rigging, etc all cost more exponentially. A bigger boat is a lot more than dock fees and extra fuel.
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Old 17-08-2020, 09:05   #69
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

The RULE OF CUBES applies to costs as well as volume. A 60 footer isn't twice as big as a 30 footer ... it is 8 times bigger (more volume). The operating costs follow a similar trajectory in our experience. Also, Ketch/Schooner rigs x 2 over a sloop. The bottom line ... BIGGER BOATS COST MORE. :-)
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Old 17-08-2020, 11:11   #70
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

I live (alone) on a 30 ft boat. I believe I have an abundance of space. When I was looking for a boat my perspective leaned toward “What is the largest boat I believe I can handle at my age singlehanded.” My conclusion which I believe was accurate for me was (obviously) about 30 ft. Now I wish I had looked at it more from the perspective of “What is the smallest size boat I believe would be adequate for me to live alone on?” Had I considered it more from that perspective I believe I would have looked for a 23 ft - 25 ft boat.
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Old 17-08-2020, 11:30   #71
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

This is funny because I DON'T keep track of the costs at all on purpose because I generally deny reality and forge on. I don't want to know how much money I am blowing on sailing. But I appreciate all of you who do track this stuff. Its helpful to me.

For me the conversations usually goes like this:

Wife: Sweetie, your boat account is getting low. (yes, she keeps a separate boat account, she pays the bills and I have a boat credit card, so she can watch me)

Me: Can you put a few grand in there please.

Wife: How long will that last for.

Me: For the rest of the season.......I promise.............

OR

Me: After I upgrade the electronics package that will be the last upgrade I will need for a long while.........

However; going from a 36' to a 41' and upgrading both: now I have two heads, two more tanks, one additional air conditioner and 5' more to pay for when getting transient slips, permanent slips, haul outs and bottom painting, not to mention bigger sails......
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Old 17-08-2020, 12:27   #72
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

This is an interesting topic. I have gone through 4 live aboard sailing cruisers that I indeed did live aboard and cruise:

1. S and S 26’ outboard powered boat. Disp 4500

2. Alberg 35 Disp 12500. Nearly 3X the boat.

3. K Peterson 44. Disp. 32000. Nearly 3X the boat

4. Cal 2-46. Disp. 34000. Similar displacement but a good bit more boat

The size difference in a boat is not the length, but the displacement. That is for the most part.
The Cal, a similar displacement to the Peterson was a good bit more boat. More tankage bigger engine, diesel genny, walk in engine room with vice and drill press, more storage. Both well build solid frp boats.

My point being that going from 31’ to 41’ is nearly 2.5 X more boat. 10,000 to 25,000 displacement. Not 1/3 more boat. Huge difference.

The other factor to plug in is equipment and upgrades Winches, sails, autopilots, dingy/ob. (My Alberg had a rubber ducky with 3.5 hp. My cal had a C12 Caribe with electric start 25 Yamaha. 20 gph watermaker, 8kw diesel genny, 270 gal fuel, 200 water 2 speed electric primary winches, Massive davits that could easily lift fully loaded dingy and motor. You get the idea. Equipment and maintenance is MUCH more than my Alberg 35. Several X more, not a few percent.

The only other variable to plug in is dockage. With the larger well equipped boats, we rarely had any use for a marina. So that expense was nearly nil.
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Old 17-08-2020, 13:07   #73
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

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Originally Posted by C Paton-Gay View Post
The RULE OF CUBES applies to costs as well as volume. A 60 footer isn't twice as big as a 30 footer ... it is 8 times bigger (more volume). The operating costs follow a similar trajectory in our experience. Also, Ketch/Schooner rigs x 2 over a sloop. The bottom line ... BIGGER BOATS CAN COST MORE. :-)
Corrected for you.

I know plenty of people who spend more buying and running a 40ft sailing vessel than we do buying and running a 60fter
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Old 17-08-2020, 13:33   #74
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

Appreciate the analysis.
I think one thing that is oftentimes overlooked besides direct costs, is the cost to "operate" in crew. A 30 ft sailboat with 1 captain, no crew is generally ok. A 40 ft boat with 1 captain and no crew? Marginal at best. A 50+ boat with 1 captain and no crew is not workable at my marina.

To see a 40+ ft boat leaving the dock with only a captain is unusual. Getting "crew" who are experienced can be considered a "cost" in itself. Either that, or the boat may end up sitting at the dock for extended periods.



I have a 33 ft boat and have considered buying a 40+ ft boat but I singlehand most of the time. A longer waterline means higher hull speed which is a great advantage. However I have gotten in jams with my 33 ft boat by myself which have been tenuous at best. Only having two hands is oftentimes an issue.



Most of the "crew" I have had over the years are unexperienced. At this point in my life (62) I have decided to not pursue a 40+ ft boat because of this.
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Old 17-08-2020, 16:07   #75
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Re: Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

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I think you are closer to reality. Big is subjective.
Yes indeed , I went from 58ft down to 29ft, so I know they are kidding themselves.
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