Extra Cruising Cost for a "Big" Boat

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The point i was trying to make wasn’t whether or how much more larger boats cost to maintain. The point I as trying to point out is it isn't as much as people believe for cruising. The extra costs of cruising on a larger boats barely matters in my case.

Maybe this part of the reason you don't see a lot of 30’ boats cruising anymore.

I'm sure you're right. You are in the sweet spot for sure.

[Boatguy30]

And my point is your fuzzy math is a joke. Smaller boats are cheaper. You get into 38' plus you go from say 7/16" or 1/2" turnbuckles to 5/8" or 3/4" 2x the cost.

You can trailer and ramp launch a 35' shoal draft mono.
Surface area increases by the square. 4x the amount of bottom paint at $300 a gallon.

Get a clue

[GILow]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

...

So in the end it has cost us 3.5% more to cruise on a 41' boat instead of a 31'.



Left the story spinning begin.

I came up with similar figures when I was looking at simply owning and weekending a boat here in South Australia. Once I factored in marina rental, slipping and bottom jobs, there just seemed no point in going under 40 feet, given the difference in general liveability you gained for a minor cost addition.

As others have noted here though, I wonder if it holds as you go up from 40 to 50 feet etc. Anecdotally I’d say not, but then most of the larger boat owners I know don’t do their own boat work, on the sound financial basis that they can earn more by staying behind their desks.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by OrinocoFlo

A 41ft boat is not a “BIG” boat IMHO. Larger boats begin at 50 feet these days.

Now a'days 100 feet is the new 50 feet.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by zboss

Now a'days 100 feet is the new 50 feet.

250' next week.

[Nicholson58]

We went from a 20 foot Tornado beach cat to a Camper & Nicholson 58 ketch, 40 tons. We are living aboard 7 months/yr. Cost per size are bottom paint, yard storage, haul out, anchor chain and anchor. Sails are of course larger, heavier, more costly. The mechanics are pretty standard unless the big boat has a big or unusual engine. Batteries, radio etc are pretty well fixed for all of us.

We are about to blow 10.5 boat bucks on a new high tech main. The cheap alternative Dacron is half that.

Fuel is inconsequential in the face of other costs. We buy about 150 gallons/year for seven months cruising. 115 HP main and 75 HP generator.

If you contemplate extended cruising, live aboard and distances in sometimes rough sea state then longer is better. Caribbean passages between islands is typically 4-12 foot seas. Definitely pick your day!

Longer waterline is faster/shorter passage. We expect to make 7.5 with 47.5 WL. In poor conditions we motor-sail.

[sailorboy1]

Some people’s crying just cracks me up. Really my real math is fuzzy? Sorry if they don't understand the topic.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by GILow

.

As others have noted here though, I wonder if it holds as you go up from 40 to 50 feet etc. Anecdotally I’d say not, but then most of the larger boat owners I know don’t do their own boat work, on the sound financial basis that they can earn more by staying behind their desks.

It does for some of us.
We don't do our bottom work prep or paint, always pay someone for that and we are far from what I would consider wealthy.
Money for that comes from cruising full time and not using a marina

If we had a smaller boat we'd pretty much be forced to spend time in marinas and I'd have to get a job to pay for it.

[Westcliffe01]

The volume equations being quoted are only true if you take the same basic design and then scale it up while maintaining all the same proportions.



If the longer boat has a narrow beam or has a low profile (unlike the typical factory built trawler) there really may not be a whole lot of difference until you get to the "by the foot" charges.


Obviously in factory boats, the basic concept is probably fairly accurate since there is not all that much variation from the norm in terms of beam and freeboard. And factory boats do make up the majority of the fleet.


I'm not looking to sail, so I need not worry about the cost of the mast, rig, sails, winches etc. I just have a problem with the types of boats on the market and the fact that generally they have a lot of beam, tend to be semi displacement and high in profile so are not really a good fit for my application.... Right now, racing sailboats generally come closer in hull form to what I am looking for, being narrow, long and light. But one is looking at a project to do a conversion to a tri or something similar... At least the hull interior tends to be bare so not a lot of demo required on that front....

[David B]

Originally Posted by Dpackie

I wonder if making the jump from 40-50 would be a linear increase in cost. Also, I wonder about long term ownership. New sails. Replacing rigging. Motor. Electrical ect. Do these systems increase exponentially with size? How do new sails and rigging compare in price between a 30 and 40 foot boat?

I feel like "Living" on a 31 foot sailboat would be pretty gritty living. That jump to 40 feet is massive in terms of living conditions. From 40 to 50 feet seems like it would really start to provide comfort.

You are right. There is a bit of a jump, but I interpret this as a 'sweet-spot' There are two of them actually. One to do with cost, and the other to do with ... well let's call it 'over-engineering' or perhaps just personal assurance? Anyway:

Take as an example, a Beneteau Oceanis 46. Beautiful boat in many ways (we almost bought one). I would suggest that boat meets the cost sweetspot. It really does everythng a cruising couple could need, and costs significantly less than a Beneteau Oceanis 50.

Then we look at the 50 (we have one). I would suggest that meets the 'personal assurance' sweetspot. The rigging, and the deck hardware are the same as on the 58 and the 60 (have not checked out a 62 yet, but I suspect there also). So they had to go up a size with the rigging and hardware of the 46, to meet the requirements of the 50, and that sizing was sufficient for the larger yachts in the family. From that, I know we have a solid rig, and of course have more living room, and the foc'sle you don't get with the 46.

BUT, when the time comes to replace the rigging, it is going to cost us significantly more than if we had gone for the 46 - then there are the sails .......

On that, my wife and I can handle the sails on our boat, but if we had gone to the 58 or 60, we would have to employ help when it came to get the sails off and folded up at the end of the season (and as we grow older (we are approaching our 70's) that will probably be the case with our 50.

So we all have our priorities - and our resource level, and what suits one may not suit another, but the 46 is a good example of a cost sweet-spot with maximum size for a certain sized rigging and deck hardware, and therefore a hard to beat (in the 40-50' size range) value/running costs vs. space combination, while for us, our 50 is a 'sweet spot' from a different perspective, and the extra costs of berthing and winter storage are well worth it (we do all the maintenance like hull polishing etc ourselves, and a 75HP vs a 50 or smaller HP engine does not really make a lot of difference re spares etc) for the extra stowage and living space, and the more robust rigging and hardware that gives us that peace of mind of 'over-engineering'

[Fore and Aft]

Simi 60 the anchor winch was a 24 volt Muir winch, the owner also put new battery cables, wiring for the new switches on the dash and deck, then may as well have new chain to match the gypsy and since he is well in the hole may as well get a one of those new anchors. All installed proffesionally at $100+ an hour so it did not take long.
I tell you Simi if you can install a new Maxwell winch in "Less than an hour" you should come out of retirement and make a killing!
Cheers

[Joli]

New Beneteau prices are as follows:
The 40 base is $244,000
The 30 base is $124,000
2% maintenance costs are $4,880 annually or $406 monthly for the 40.
2% maintenance costs are $2480 annually or $206 monthly for the 30.
The delta between the two boats for maintenance is $200 a month. If your maintenance cost is closer to 1.5% then the delta is $150/month.
When buying a used boat look at the new replacement cost to understand your annual maintenance costs if the used boat has been maintained. If the used boat has a ton of deferred maintenance then the costs can be higher.
The best bang for the buck is a used boat that has been recently refitted.

[Greg K]

No argument with the breakdown of the numbers for cost, and to each his own when it comes to boat design and size choices. But, let me just put this out there as food for thought to those boatless newbies who are contemplating the size of their potential cruising boat purchase. We just came back from a 3 week cruise to Menorca, with stops at Ibiza and Mallorca. All told, probably put around 500 nm under the keel of our Shannon 28 foot cutter. Our boat has no pressure water, no hot water, no fridge or freezer, no electric windlass, but she does have fairly large fresh water tankage for her size ( 65 gallons) and good storage. We used solar showers, pumped fresh water by manual hand-pumps, pulled up anchor with a manual windlass, stocked up with vacuum packed bread, eggs, cured Spanish meats and cheeses, soda water, limes and lots of red wine.... and not once in those wonderful three weeks did we lack for anything, especially this elusive thing you all call "comfort".

One of the biggest advantages (aside from lower costs) of small boats, especially here in the finicky Med and the frequent light winds is that we sailed a lot while the really big guys motored. In 8 knots we moved an easy 4, and in 10 we moved right along at 5.

For anyone going summer cruising for say 2 to 4 weeks at a time in a place like the Med where fresh provisions are available in almost every anchorage, I really can't imagine needing a big, complicated boat and all the associated cost and complexities. From what we've seen this year in the anchorages in the Balearics, the go small and simple KISS principle is starting to catch on.... a few POGO ( mini-transpac) type are starting to show up for the first time. Sail into the anchorage on the whisper of a breeze, drop an anchor on rope off the stern and walk it up to the bow.... a cloth over the boom covering the cockpit for sun protection.... and as happy as can be. Very encouraging, as are the folks cruising out there on the Cape Dory 25 and the Allied Seawind 30 proving that in many ways less is more.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Greg K

One of the biggest advantages (aside from lower costs) of small boats, especially here in the finicky Med and the frequent light winds is that we sailed a lot while the really big guys motored. In 8 knots we moved an easy 4, and in 10 we moved right along at 5.

Big boats don't motor instead of sailing in light wind because they can't sail. They do it sometimes because they are in a hurry and hold enough fuel that they don't have to worry about running out if they do.

But this is thread drift.

[BenBowSirocco]

My wife and I have owned multiple "small" boats. (C&C 27, Benbow Cutter at 30' on deck). Both of which where purchased beat up and in need of work and refit by us and then sailed as much as possible. I have also been involved in the refit and long range delivery of a 40' Dufour A9000 and its continuing refitment.

So while I cant group all 40' boats as similar to the one I am familiar with I can speak directly based on my experience with these boats.

I think your numbers on monthly costs make sense and I think your monthly average increase are probably correct, but as others have pointed out and I wanted to agree with, is the cost of gear and parts is dramatically different.

When the Dufour needed some mid mast runners replaced they cost him more than my cap shrouds- by a lot. Because in every way his runners were larger than my 30' boats cap shrouds. Wire size and swage were both larger and wire length longer.

The Dufour recently replaced his mainsail (at greatly discounted price) and he still spent more than we did on our boats main and genoa combined- because his sail is quite large and complicated.

For us, that couple hundred dollars a month in expenses is within reach, but the initial purchase price and cost of essential gear is not. It seems to me a decent 40' boat is often 60-120k. In our size range 15-30k can get you a great boat and for these reasons we will stay in our size range and enjoy cruising rather than waiting 5-10 years before we can afford the larger vessel to go in safety with fresh rig/sails and reliable gear.