Early retirement and health care for boaters

[Mike OReilly]

I think (hope) the point Lexi is making is that the world has changed dramatically for the younger generations. They face a stagnation in wages and reduced levels of wealth accumulation as compared to previous generations. This is coupled with significant rising costs and a work environment that has virtually abandoned all notions of security or predictability.

Most here who are 65+ will have retired with comfortable defined benefits pensions. They will have had long, fulfilling and relatively secure careers. This is in dramatic contrast to the realities that face most younger people. These days, fewer workers even have a pension plan at all, and if they do, it is of the define contribution style. Work is increasingly shifting to precarious "gigs" with no security and therefore little ability to plan for the future.

At the same time the real costs for life's most important things: homes, education, healthcare, retirement, have all increased dramatically.

So I understand what she is trying to say here. It might be a bit melodramatic, but in a very real sense the notion of retirement is increasingly becoming something reserved for fewer and fewer.

[evm1024]

No one is entitled to a comfortable retirement. Ma and Pa Kettle worked hard on the farm and passed it to their children who worked hard. But Ma and Pa kept on working as best as they could.

Did the 20 somethings of WWI have any thoughts of a comfortable retirement? Unlikely. How about the 20 somethings of the depression? Or WWII? Was it somehow easier for them?

GI's came back from WWII and found that women had entered the job market - Jobs were hard to come by and you had to compete to get them. Was that easy? But they worked and they started working at any job.

My younger daughter is in her early 20's and has at times wanted us to give her a Mercedes for her 16th birthday. She got the use of a beat up Geo Tracker and when she crashed that she drove it with a white body and a red hood. Desire to drive to school rather than ride the bus overcame her "pride". She is a much more careful driver now.

She wanted to go to Harvard but went to a State school and lived at home. Looking back she is glad that she is not in debt beyond reason.

I made her invest half of all money she got in a (custodial at first) brokerage account. She sold some of her portfolio and bought Moderna at $28 a share. She plans - Let me repeat that - SHE PLANS on retiring on her own terms. Not with a handout but because she will have worked for it and earned it.

She does not have much good to say about her teachers. She was taught as she puts it "Low resolution thinking, entitlement and outrage" in school. But, that was offset (she says) by spending summers with her Grand Parents in Ukraine. Where she learned hard work at the "farm" and got to see firsthand the corruption that comes with socialism.

Darn, I got sucked in.

[evm1024]

I am very interested in the actual on topic information that this thread is about.

We start cruising this year and healthcare for boaters is near and dear to my heart.

I plan on taking advantage of every (legal) trick, loophole, option I can to keep our costs down.

I'll leave it to the younger generation to change the laws as they see fit.

I would rather that the 20 somethings figure a way to make healthcare less expensive. They everyone could benefit.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I think (hope) the point Lexi is making is that the world has changed dramatically for the younger generations. They face a stagnation in wages and reduced levels of wealth accumulation as compared to previous generations. This is coupled with significant rising costs and a work environment that has virtually abandoned all notions of security or predictability.

Most here who are 65+ will have retired with comfortable defined benefits pensions. They will have had long, fulfilling and relatively secure careers. This is in dramatic contrast to the realities that face most younger people. These days, fewer workers even have a pension plan at all, and if they do, it is of the define contribution style. Work is increasingly shifting to precarious "gigs" with no security and therefore little ability to plan for the future.

At the same time the real costs for life's most important things: homes, education, healthcare, retirement, have all increased dramatically.

So I understand what she is trying to say here. It might be a bit melodramatic, but in a very real sense the notion of retirement is increasingly becoming something reserved for fewer and fewer.

The world has always been tough for younger people: drafted for wars, parents with undiagnosed PTSD, high interest rates and stagflation, etc, etc, etc. That’s in the developed world. In the developing world things have never been better in terms of health, food, income, water, education, women’s rights, and security (well, the hard stop on globalisation by Covid has paused those gains for now).

I’m Gen X, graduated high school in 1985 into an economy devastated by high interest rates, oil price shocks, crazy house prices, and a stagnant stock market. Never stayed at any company for more than 3 years and have no defined benefit nor defined contribution pension plan. Since the 1980s, forty years ago. Nothing new here. Got going with work and savings, then Dot Com crash, then GFC.

As an example, housing cost now is high, but interest cost is extremely low - the actual carrying cost is lower than in any of the previous 4 decades.

The notion of retirement as an entitlement that is disappearing is what confuses me, as there is no evidence of that. It only follows if you expect a wholesale collapse in the global financial system - then government supplied benefits will disappear for everyone, not just the newly retired.

I will reiterate, retirement benefits are paid from current income - each generation pays for the generation two ahead that’s in retirement. It’s a real entitlement, as the retired generation paid for the retirement benefits of the generation two in front of them. So the benefits that a government makes available to retired people, and to spouses of deceased retirement beneficiaries, are not morally wrong nor to be scorned as unearned. Unless you believe that retired people did not once earn their way?

Enough of this, please.

Regarding GEOS Global Medevac product, it doesn’t seem to be on sale. There are several rescue assistance products available online, but not the medevac one (though its terms and conditions are online). Anyone know if the product can still be purchased?

https://www.geosresponse.com/assets/...CONDITIONS.pdf

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by fxykty

The world has always been tough for younger people: drafted for wars, parents with undiagnosed PTSD, high interest rates and stagflation, etc, etc, etc. That’s in the developed world. In the developing world things have never been better in terms of health, food, income, water, education, women’s rights, and security (well, the hard stop on globalisation by Covid has paused those gains for now).

I’m Gen X, graduated high school in 1985 into an economy devastated by high interest rates, oil price shocks, crazy house prices, and a stagnant stock market. Never stayed at any company for more than 3 years and have no defined benefit nor defined contribution pension plan. Since the 1980s, forty years ago. Nothing new here. Got going with work and savings, then Dot Com crash, then GFC.

As an example, housing cost now is high, but interest cost is extremely low - the actual carrying cost is lower than in any of the previous 4 decades.

The notion of retirement as an entitlement that is disappearing is what confuses me, as there is no evidence of that. It only follows if you expect a wholesale collapse in the global financial system - then government supplied benefits will disappear for everyone, not just the newly retired.

I will reiterate, retirement benefits are paid from current income - each generation pays for the generation two ahead that’s in retirement. It’s a real entitlement, as the retired generation paid for the retirement benefits of the generation two in front of them. So the benefits that a government makes available to retired people, and to spouses of deceased retirement beneficiaries, are not morally wrong nor to be scorned as unearned. Unless you believe that retired people did not once earn their way?

Enough of this, please.

Regarding GEOS Global Medevac product, it doesn’t seem to be on sale. There are several rescue assistance products available online, but not the medevac one (though its terms and conditions are online). Anyone know if the product can still be purchased?

https://www.geosresponse.com/assets/...CONDITIONS.pdf

i grew up and work in similar conditions. after just under 3 decades of work, called it quits. I say property is very high risk investment at this point and counting on your pension from government for life is optimistic unless you plan living very short time. Jobs are leaving country for good. SO who will pay for you then ? Doubt cheque will come from indochina.

Selfsufficiency is the only real answer. In producing food and managing investments. Keeping healthy helps as well.

[NCWDave]

Well shocking, this thread has out lived any usefulness.

[Mike OReilly]

Ah yes, and now the inevitable "Pulled up by bootstraps" bravado. Sorry, but the societal facts are real, notwithstanding your individual anecdotes of perseverance and superior character.

People are dumping on our young friend's comments. As I said, she is being a bit melodramatic, but she's not wrong for the vast majority of her generation. And yes, this IS on topic since we're discussing "early retirement". Maybe it's not applicable to your circumstance, but not everyone is the same.

BTW my partner and I retired early on a joint income of ~$18000 (US) with healthcare covered. Why can't everyone?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Lexi is only overstating the problem a bit, that’s not drama.
Before COVID 1 in 6 children was food in secure, that is there risk of having inadequate nutrition.

Current estimates are 1 in 3.5-4.0 but numbers are hard to establish better because research is hampered by COVID.

https://www.nokidhungry.org/who-we-are/hunger-facts

Food insecure is about poor nutrition not going hungry. And it's really not that expensive to provide a balanced diet. It does take a little more effort at food prep to keep the cost down and that's where some parents choose easy and cheap highly processed foods.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by manitu

Oh man. How do any sane man suport your system?

As a Norwegian I get completely free healthcare... in USA. (and most of the world)
Paid by my less than 30% income tax, I have almost double the salary of an american in similar line of work, and 5 weeks paid vacation. How can anyone think I'm being ripped off?


.manitu

Norway is a special case...huge oil revenue with small population subsidizing govt experiments.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Most here who are 65+ will have retired with comfortable defined benefits pensions. They will have had long, fulfilling and relatively secure careers. This is in dramatic contrast to the realities that face most younger people. These days, fewer workers even have a pension plan at all, and if they do, it is of the define contribution style. Work is increasingly shifting to precarious "gigs" with no security and therefore little ability to plan for the future.

Actually, pensions peaked in the USA at around 38% back in the 80's. Even then most never actually got a pension due to vesting rules. If you switched jobs, you lost your pension. Even for those who did meet the vesting rules, most only got a few hundred a month. The guy who put in 40yrs and is getting the full pension is very much the outlier. Often it became a set of golden handcuffs limiting career opportunities...think about getting a job on the auto manufacturing line. It's mind numbing work with no chance for advancement but you would be financially insane to leave it with the high pay.

Defined contribution is far better because if you change jobs, you get to keep your investment including what the company put in (some have vesting rules but they are much easier to meet as long as you aren't hopping jobs every 6-10months)

As far as long, fullfilling and secure careers...Look back at past economic downturns. Layoffs and job insecurity is not a new thing.

At the risk of playing the roll of the grumpy old guy...the biggest issue I see is young folks not focusing on a career and working their way up the ladder. They go to college and get a useless degree. Then they expect day one to get a high paying job and play the roll of upper management with the benefits that come with it. Then they get upset when suddenly they aren't special and don't get a blue ribbon. When I see young people put their time in, learn from their seniors, they advance quickly and the money follows. This isn't to say they can't bring a new perspective and a better way of doing things but there is a way to get those things implemented and a way to alienate those around you.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by evm1024

No one is entitled to a comfortable retirement. Ma and Pa Kettle worked hard on the farm and passed it to their children who worked hard. But Ma and Pa kept on working as best as they could.

Did the 20 somethings of WWI have any thoughts of a comfortable retirement? Unlikely. How about the 20 somethings of the depression? Or WWII? Was it somehow easier for them?

GI's came back from WWII and found that women had entered the job market - Jobs were hard to come by and you had to compete to get them. Was that easy? But they worked and they started working at any job.

My younger daughter is in her early 20's and has at times wanted us to give her a Mercedes for her 16th birthday. She got the use of a beat up Geo Tracker and when she crashed that she drove it with a white body and a red hood. Desire to drive to school rather than ride the bus overcame her "pride". She is a much more careful driver now.

She wanted to go to Harvard but went to a State school and lived at home. Looking back she is glad that she is not in debt beyond reason.

I made her invest half of all money she got in a (custodial at first) brokerage account. She sold some of her portfolio and bought Moderna at $28 a share. She plans - Let me repeat that - SHE PLANS on retiring on her own terms. Not with a handout but because she will have worked for it and earned it.

She does not have much good to say about her teachers. She was taught as she puts it "Low resolution thinking, entitlement and outrage" in school. But, that was offset (she says) by spending summers with her Grand Parents in Ukraine. Where she learned hard work at the "farm" and got to see firsthand the corruption that comes with socialism.

Darn, I got sucked in.

I see a lot of successful 20 something's (early 30somethings)...your daughter reminds me of the qualities most demonstrate.

I also know many unsuccessful ones...they typically demonstrate the opposite qualities.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Ah yes, and now the inevitable "Pulled up by bootstraps" bravado.

And the opposite of that is "the govt will solve our problems".

I know which option I'm going to trust more.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

And the opposite of that is "the govt will solve our problems".



I know which option I'm going to trust more.

Quote where I or others said that. Once again, you put up your own straw man.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Quote where I or others said that. Once again, you put up your own straw man.

Post 457.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Post 457.

Maybe your 457 says something else. Here's what mine says. It says NOTHING about "the govt will solve our problems".

Here, I'll make it easy. Bold where I've said what you say I've said. Otherwise, stop lying.

Ah yes, and now the inevitable "Pulled up by bootstraps" bravado. Sorry, but the societal facts are real, notwithstanding your individual anecdotes of perseverance and superior character.

People are dumping on our young friend's comments. As I said, she is being a bit melodramatic, but she's not wrong for the vast majority of her generation. And yes, this IS on topic since we're discussing "early retirement". Maybe it's not applicable to your circumstance, but not everyone is the same.

BTW my partner and I retired early on a joint income of ~$18000 (US) with healthcare covered. Why can't everyone?