Early retirement and health care for boaters

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Who is dismissing Medicare?

....

Guess I misunderstood the "counts for squat" description.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I gotta say Paul; those 3/4 million dollar bills are only “far too common” in the USA. No where else in the developed, or even developing, world is it common to be financial destroyed by an ailment or accident. Most other functioning societies recognize that healthcare is a basic right of citizenship.

Exactly, but it is the devil we have to deal with. Bankruptcy due to medical issues is pretty common. We have a friend who had a heart issue that turned out to be congenital. Still living fine now, but the bills were $800,000. Fortunately had real insurance. At least with the ACA policies now available you don't get thrown to the wolves like in the past. Where folks thought they were insured but the caps were unreasonable.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Guess I misunderstood the "counts for squat" description.

OK .... counts for squat means it does not work if we are outside the USA. M

If I’m in Granada or Canada or Dominician Republic and have a heat attack or get hurt Medicare does me no good. I have PADI to repatriate me. But I’d rather have good coverage wherever I go.

If I do need coverage in the states then I’ve got Medicare.

Obviously not a consideration for everyone, it for older, cruisers out of the USA, yes.

Except ..... I just had to pay $3,500 for two new caps. No dental insurance period.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Group9

I would rather have a nice boat than guaranteed health care.
Why is that not a right?

Please connect these dots for me. I have no idea how having a nice boat, and treating healthcare as a right of citizenry, are linked.

Originally Posted by Paul L

Exactly, but it is the devil we have to deal with. Bankruptcy due to medical issues is pretty common. We have a friend who had a heart issue that turned out to be congenital. Still living fine now, but the bills were $800,000. Fortunately had real insurance. At least with the ACA policies now available you don't get thrown to the wolves like in the past. Where folks thought they were insured but the caps were unreasonable.

Yes. Like said, I don’t know how Americans of modest means can ever afford to go cruising. It seems there are ways though… Don (sailorboy?) has figured something out. And Howard has got it covered, so obviously there is a way.

I just know, if I had to shell out hundreds of dollars each month for healthcare coverage, I couldn’t afford to be doing what we’re doing.

BTW, when travelling in the USA I do buy supplemental insurance. So far, it’s the only country where I do that. Most other places I’ve seen have healthcare costs that are manageable — at least for acute events.

[buzzstar]

I am fascinated by how many think health care is "free" in most of the developed world, with the US being the exception. Econ 101 lesson one: TANSTAAFL. If you do not know what it means, look it up.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Please connect these dots for me. I have no idea how having a nice boat, and treating healthcare as a right of citizenry, are linked.



Yes. Like said, I don’t know how Americans of modest means can ever afford to go cruising. It seems there are ways though… Don (sailorboy?) has figured something out. And Howard has got it covered, so obviously there is a way.

I just know, if I had to shell out hundreds of dollars each month for healthcare coverage, I couldn’t afford to be doing what we’re doing.

BTW, when travelling in the USA I do buy supplemental insurance. So far, it’s the only country where I do that. Most other places I’ve seen have healthcare costs that are manageable — at least for acute events.

So, basically, in your case the people of Canada are being forced to subsidize your chosen lifestyle. It is the truth, so just admit it, enjoy it while it lasts. and stop whining about other places, particularly the US. You are welcome not to come here.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

So, basically, in your case the people of Canada are being forced to subsidize your chosen lifestyle. It is the truth, so just admit it, enjoy it while it lasts. and stop whining about other places, particularly the US. You are welcome not to come here.

No. It is paid for by taxes. I pay taxes, just like just about every other Canadian.

Canadian healthcare is far more sustainable than the US model. You pay nearly twice as much as the next highest country (Canada), yet you produce mediocre results. How is this smart, or sustainable?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

No. It is paid for by taxes. I pay taxes, just like just about every other Canadian.

Unless you pay the national average in taxes, you are either subsidizing or being subsidized.

This is different from a private insurance plan where individuals have a choice to participate or not.

Not saying we should or should not provide it as a social service but to claim it's not some people subsidizing other people is false. If you can't admit that and still defend it, then there must be an issue.

[Cheechako]

Before 65 I paid a ton for healthcare insurance and every year got less covered. Each year it went up 15-20%. It's a real dilemma what to do for sure.

At 65 I got the best health insurance I ever had in my life: Medicare. I bought the add on policy (group F) That covers EVERYTHING. I'm 70 now and haven't paid a health bill in 5 years. I have had surgery and other expensive procedures done. Group F covers ambulance, office calls, procedure etc etc . I do pay some on drugs though.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Unless you pay the national average in taxes, you are either subsidizing or being subsidized.

This is different from a private insurance plan where individuals have a choice to participate or not.

Not saying we should or should not provide it as a social service but to claim it's not some people subsidizing other people is false. If you can't admit that and still defend it, then there must be an issue.

This is true.

OTOH what defines a country if not a shared desire to work together through good and ill for our mutual support?

We agree to fight to the death to protect one another’s rights. But we in the USA can not agree to share a little to protect our health.

[Bill Seal]

Unfortunately, several million illegals do not "share", and Canadians are about to find out what it costs to care for a few milliion refugees from the mid east. (and Germans too)

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

No. It is paid for by taxes. I pay taxes, just like just about every other Canadian.

Canadian healthcare is far more sustainable than the US model. You pay nearly twice as much as the next highest country (Canada), yet you produce mediocre results. How is this smart, or sustainable?

You completely avoid the question, and you dare call the medical care in the US mediocre. Wow! [Expensive yes, unless you are illegal, homeless, or penniless, but mediocre, no.] That is real mouthful for someone who implicitly admits to living off the largess of his fellow citizens (albeit in the form of taxes taken under threat of imprisonment). BTW, I have US Medicare, and I do have foreign coverage via a supplement (admittedly not great) but that coupled with my own resources would have gotten me repaired or home when I was able to travel on the wind.

[hellosailor]

Given the recent scandals about the VA system's poor care and falsified records? And the constant Medicare scams, some of which go unprosecuted for years? And the way doctors and hospitals have to game the system, or chose to?

We've got some of the finest medical care in the world in the US. And, an incredible amount of mediocre to downright LETHAL care. Something like 1/4 million deaths per year from preventable causes, like the wrong drugs. And it only took what, ten years of loud argument to get hospitals using bar codes and bracelets to confirm who should be getting what?

There are tremendous improvements that could easily be made in our system. Even when we have standards (like the Joint Committee standards on basic hygiene and infection spreading) the medical providers simply refuse to follow them. The numbers say "do this and you'll kill fewer patients" but they just can't be bothered.

Or, they all put medical staff on 12-hour shifts (which become 14 with turnover time) because it makes things so easy. Except, the past hundred years of research, all kinds of research, on shift workers, proves again and again that when the workday goes from 8 hours to 12, the error and accident rate doubles. Can anyone afford to DOUBLE the number of medical accidents in a hospital? Apparently.

There's a lot of room for improvement here.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Given the recent scandals about the VA system's poor care and falsified records? And the constant Medicare scams, some of which go unprosecuted for years? And the way doctors and hospitals have to game the system, or chose to?

We've got some of the finest medical care in the world in the US. And, an incredible amount of mediocre to downright LETHAL care. Something like 1/4 million deaths per year from preventable causes, like the wrong drugs. And it only took what, ten years of loud argument to get hospitals using bar codes and bracelets to confirm who should be getting what?

There are tremendous improvements that could easily be made in our system. Even when we have standards (like the Joint Committee standards on basic hygiene and infection spreading) the medical providers simply refuse to follow them. The numbers say "do this and you'll kill fewer patients" but they just can't be bothered.

Or, they all put medical staff on 12-hour shifts (which become 14 with turnover time) because it makes things so easy. Except, the past hundred years of research, all kinds of research, on shift workers, proves again and again that when the workday goes from 8 hours to 12, the error and accident rate doubles. Can anyone afford to DOUBLE the number of medical accidents in a hospital? Apparently.

There's a lot of room for improvement here.

Well, I am sure glad these problems do not exist in those places with "free" medical care. My own preference, if I must take me chances, is to do it in the US. BTW, the 8 vs. 12 hour shift issue is mostly a union thing. They tend to want fewer work days. There is a lot of room for improvement everywhere.

[hpeer]

Hello sailor +1

I’m a strong advocate of the idea that if you go into a hospital you need an awake and aware advocate checking in on you several times a day. I’ve waaaay too many stories to tell.

I’ve avoided hospitals for years, A couple of years ago I did witness a shift turnover procedure at a suburban hispital that was a good leap forward. So maybe things are improving.