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Old 13-11-2018, 21:37   #256
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

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Originally Posted by Sailsarefull View Post
The reason it is only $22/month is because other tax payers are paying the balance of atleast $800/month or more. The true cost of the insurance is atleast $900/month. But, with low income reported, they get the subsidy from taxpayers. Sort of welfare.
Yes, As a tax preparer, I see these customers at Tax time. Millions in their retirement savings plan, working as part time store greeters, getting Obamacare subsidized policies at your expense. Meanwhile, the lower income, working folks, are getting slayed.
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Old 13-11-2018, 22:19   #257
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

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The data isn't such a nice story.
The average wait to see a specialist from a doctor's referral in Canada is 21 weeks. (This seems to line up with Allied39's "nice story".)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypi.../#694458833e7d

If you get sick in Canada you need lots of time.
If you get sick in the US, you need lots of money.
Neither country's solution sounds ideal to me.
You may not be aware, but the story is based on a report from the Fraser Institute; a well known right wing “think tank.” Its so-called reports are well known partisan pieces whose constant theme is to attack the Canadian welfare state. In short, they are far from unbiased.

I spent a lot of years as a journalist covering medicine and healthcare in Canada. I can tell you we have huge problems with lack of resources and resource distribution. Some patients do wait a long time for consults and procedures, but those who need service now go to the front of the line. Our system is designed to triage patients based on need, not on how big their pocketbook is.

The Canadian system is far from the best in the world. There are many countries that do it better. But by nearly any measure, from costs to outcomes, it is superior to the American model.
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Old 13-11-2018, 22:34   #258
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

Meanwhile, am covered by Medicare (what a joke) but pay a $1000 dollars a month between Medicare and fill-the-hole health insurance for just me alone each month. And then I pay income tax to support a family or two for their health insurance. Feels like I'm paying more than my share.
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Old 13-11-2018, 22:37   #259
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

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...

The Canadian system is far from the best in the world. There are many countries that do it better. But by nearly any measure, from costs to outcomes, it is superior to the American model.
And why is that Canadians I've met in the US have come here to obtain timely medical help?
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Old 13-11-2018, 22:53   #260
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

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Meanwhile, am covered by Medicare (what a joke) but pay a $1000 dollars a month between Medicare and fill-the-hole health insurance for just me alone each month. And then I pay income tax to support a family or two for their health insurance. Feels like I'm paying more than my share.
They must have seen you coming, as I get mine for about a third of that. So far the coverage has been very good. Better and cheaper than my previous private policy.
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Old 13-11-2018, 23:04   #261
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

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And why is that Canadians I've met in the US have come here to obtain timely medical help?

It may be a public system. But is still a vastly for profit Enterprise up here my spouse sees alot in her profession all paid for by our "system"

-Surgeons arguing over who gets the higher paying procedures
-Braindead vegetables getting joint replacements
-Gender reassignment surgeries
-obese persons getting stapling or lipo

It is the chronically ill that feed the system everywhere. It just happens that the people that would likely not be able to afford care elsewhere get it for free here

All that said anytime i have ever known anyone with an acute medical problem (cancer, heart issues, physical trauma) the care received is immediate and of excellent quality

I also have a severely brain injured sister and if it were not for our medical system it would have bankrupt my family several times over
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Old 14-11-2018, 00:15   #262
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

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Yet Canada ranks #7 in the word for life expectancy and the US is #34. Also the 3rd cause of death in the US after heart attack and cancer is medical errors. I’m guessing there is no perfect place to receive healthcare, most expensive yes but no place perfect.
The issue with these numbers is it's taking the country as a whole. Nice for discussion of social issues but tells us little as an individual.

If you break it down by income, you will see a different picture. Obviously, the system that offers free services will to better for low earners and one that offers better services for a fee will do better for higher earners.

I have 3 sisters who work in nursing near the Canadian border...it's not just anecdotal that Canadians cross to the USA to get quicker care. Probably 10-15% of their patients are Canadian and the hospitals love them as they pay cash (no messing with insurance companies).

The biggest issue with insurance (private or country provided) is there is a financial incentive to use as much of the service as possible with no consideration of cost.

I think the move toward high deductible plans is a good thing. It covers you if you have a major event without bankrupting you but you get people (and more importantly doctors) thinking about cost vs benefit. If the insurance company has to spend an extra $1000 for very minor benefit, most people will ask for it. If you have to hand over 10 Ben Franklins, you will ask about other options that will keep a few Ben's in your pocket.

Hypothetical: Some have suggested we have a duty as a society to provide health care to all. Not disagreeing with that but don't we have a duty to provide housing to all? So are you willing to put a homeless person or two up in your spare cabin or is it all fine and good if someone else is footing the bill and dealing with the issues?
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Old 14-11-2018, 01:26   #263
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

Australia's average life expectancy is about four years more than the United States despite all the deadly wild life. That's a huge difference. The States might be a great place for one percenters but I know where I would prefer to have medical issues.
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Old 14-11-2018, 01:48   #264
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

i can see latest trend is to let old people die in hospitals. This trend will gather pace. Ones that are free of money are let (or helped) die immediately, ones with money, after they run out of money paid for needed and unneded procedures.

See eu for number of cases.

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Old 14-11-2018, 05:11   #265
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

I think calling Medicare a joke many people would take issue with. If it wasn’t for Medicare millions of Americans wouldnt have any medical insurance at all and I think few of those people could afford to pay out of pocket.
One payer system seems the way to go to me. Why make insurance company’s rich, why make insurance so complicated that few involved have a good idea what the charges will be before any care is performed.
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Old 14-11-2018, 09:27   #266
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

There is no evidence that large numbers of Canadians are going to the USA for healthcare services. There are certainly some, mostly rich, Canadians that do so. And there are individual stories that are easy to find. But facts do matter.

Here’s an actual research study which you can read if you care about actual information:

Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians’ Use Of Health Care Services In The United States

Here’s the summary few lines for those who don’t want to read the whole study:

Quote:
"Results from these sources do not support the widespread perception that Canadian residents seek care extensively in the United States. Indeed, the numbers found are so small as to be barely detectible relative to the use of care by Canadians at home.”
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Old 14-11-2018, 09:36   #267
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

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You may not be aware, but the story is based on a report from the Fraser Institute; a well known right wing “think tank.” Its so-called reports are well known partisan pieces whose constant theme is to attack the Canadian welfare state. In short, they are far from unbiased.



I spent a lot of years as a journalist covering medicine and healthcare in Canada. I can tell you we have huge problems with lack of resources and resource distribution. Some patients do wait a long time for consults and procedures, but those who need service now go to the front of the line. Our system is designed to triage patients based on need, not on how big their pocketbook is.



The Canadian system is far from the best in the world. There are many countries that do it better. But by nearly any measure, from costs to outcomes, it is superior to the American model.
Good to know, though my friends in Vancouver might not agree.
By far cheaper options are in Mexico and elsewhere. $6000 braces in the US cost about $600 in the Philippines. Same hardware.
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Old 14-11-2018, 09:50   #268
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

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Good to know, though my friends in Vancouver might not agree.
By far cheaper options are in Mexico and elsewhere. $6000 braces in the US cost about $600 in the Philippines. Same hardware.
Yes … I think there are more Canadians and Americans flocking to these so-called third world countries to get medical procedures done compared to any of cross 49th parallel border activity. Step across almost any border town into Mexico and you can get a whole slew of medical procedures done at a fraction of the cost. In fact, there’s a whole international industry around medical tourism, driven largely by high costs in many developed countries.

Here in Canada we like to think we’re the best in healthcare (sound familiar, doesn’t it?), but this is far from the truth. While our system costs about 1/2 per-capita of the American system, we are twice the cost of most other better performing healthcare systems. The northern European countries really show how it’s done right.
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Old 14-11-2018, 09:56   #269
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

hell there's medical "vacations" to places like India etc for medical treatment

I definitely don't believe the US has the best medical care, basically if they can't cut it or pill it here you are just a fat lazy sob to them
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Old 14-11-2018, 10:00   #270
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Re: Early retirement and health care for boaters

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You may not be aware, but the story is based on a report from the Fraser Institute; a well known right wing “think tank.” Its so-called reports are well known partisan pieces whose constant theme is to attack the Canadian welfare state. In short, they are far from unbiased.

I spent a lot of years as a journalist covering medicine and healthcare in Canada. I can tell you we have huge problems with lack of resources and resource distribution. Some patients do wait a long time for consults and procedures, but those who need service now go to the front of the line. Our system is designed to triage patients based on need, not on how big their pocketbook is.

The Canadian system is far from the best in the world. There are many countries that do it better. But by nearly any measure, from costs to outcomes, it is superior to the American model.
Mike, I don't think the news source matters here. The left-center Canadian Global News had a similar story:
https://globalnews.ca/news/3251833/c...alists-report/
The surgery wait times were the longest of all countries measured...
"While Canadians might think we have the best health-care system in the world, international comparisons help to provide important perspective"

The difference is that Americans know their system is not the greatest, unless you have money. Words like "superior" seem a bit odd here, as neither place has it all figured out.

Cruisers can have a happy surprise when they find that quite decent medical care is available for relatively small amounts of money in places like Mexico. Dental care is quite affordable in other places too. I can tell you first hand that the same dental braces that cost $6000 in the US are $600 in the Philippines.
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