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Old 16-05-2018, 20:27   #61
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Jammer's right: from this thread, i have come to think that the problem is built in to the situation, and those of us who suffer from their own perfectionism probably are going to be the worst offenders, because we want so much to do it "right", as defined by ourselves, of course.

Cherp brings up an interesting point: that if someone is active on here, people will develop ideas about their character, from writing done safely free of interaction on the poster's part, and then when the poster shows up in the flesh, in a stressful to them situation, the poster can certainly fail grievously to meet the unknown expectation. I guess that's something that just has to be sucked up, too. There's no way to know from the moments before docking that that particular time one is being judged on something they are about to do, more than any other time. And of course, one "should" always be polite. And, I'm definitely imperfect.

To a great extent, how we tie up has to do with whatever place it is. And if we will be leaving the boat (for inshore travel, for instance), or being aboard to fiddle with things if they need it. When we are not going to be "there" for a long time, I do not tie up the tails of the lines, so it is easier for others to adjust if needed. Sometimes there are friends keeping an eye on the boat, and then we try to make it easiest for them.

Ann
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Old 17-05-2018, 00:55   #62
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Just last Monday. marina staff took our bow line and cleated the bow snug to the dock - which sent my stern heading away from the dock. I had a long stern line and managed to step to the dock and pull the stern back as much as I could, cleated the stern line, then walked up and re-cleated the bow line with about 6 more feet of line. Then I was able to bring in the stern enough to bring the gate to the dock. It happens often. We just smile and hope they learn. We are in our 70s and a 45' cutter.
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Old 17-05-2018, 01:02   #63
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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(Please excuse the thread drift) Experienced cruising couples put the wife at the helm to take the boat away from the dock and dock it, and he handles the lines, because she can dock the boat exactly as well as he can and he can jump ll 3/4 inches farther to the dock than she can.
On my ship, we only step to the dock. No jumping allowed. Use a boat hook if it comes to that. I cannot deal with docking AND helping crew who has fallen on a cement dock.
Different skippers; different rules.
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Old 17-05-2018, 02:56   #64
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Ann are you sure you are not my missus Margaret or her sister! "You'se"! all sound the same! As a very tactful/diplomatic individual I'm always thinking of the other person until they get under my skin and then look out. Life is too short to worry about dunderasses!
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Old 17-05-2018, 03:01   #65
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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Just last Monday. marina staff took our bow line and cleated the bow snug to the dock - which sent my stern heading away from the dock. I had a long stern line and managed to step to the dock and pull the stern back as much as I could, cleated the stern line, then walked up and re-cleated the bow line with about 6 more feet of line. Then I was able to bring in the stern enough to bring the gate to the dock. It happens often. We just smile and hope they learn. We are in our 70s and a 45' cutter.
When your bow was snug why not put your engine into reverse and turn the wheel towards the dock or am I missing something, which if so wouldn't surprise me.
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Old 17-05-2018, 03:12   #66
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

What we do at our current home (stern to med moor with bollards and slime lines attached to dock, and a nice long passerelle) is have the two stern lines pre-bowlined, which one of the girls throws to the dock handler or passerby. All they gotta do is drop it over the bollard, we cleat it off on the boat as we like. If no one is on the dock, I hold the boat off and someone steps off the passerelle and drops the bights herself. Then engine ticking over ahead we have all the time in the world to get the slimes done up. Either way, zero chance of screw-ups

As for Ann, wow, I've read a lot of your posts on here and I can't imagine you'd have been awful enough to anyone in person that it would warrant them stewing on it for a decade! Nice of you to apologize, but don't give it another thought...much or most of this is on them, not you.
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Old 17-05-2018, 06:19   #67
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Seems we all have tales of woe caused by well-meaning dock "helpers."

I have to admit, I had a very competent dock hand actually help once. Huge marina, very tight slips and fairways, blowing 20-25 knots. My boat has a LOT of windage. My assigned slip was on the far side, down a couple of the narrowest fairways, with the wind blowing in a most unhelpful direction.

From the helm, it seemed to me the whole marina had turned out to watch the inevitable crash.

It took three attempts. Each time the dock hand did exactly what I asked, no more. This gave me the flexibility to try a couple of different approaches before finding one that worked, and the confidence that he wouldn't screw it up at the last moment. On the third try I slid it right in and made a perfect landing. I think a heard a cheer go up.

I'm sure we could have made it without the dock hand, but knowing I could count on him to do the right thing made the whole process much less stressful. Needless to say, he was tipped well. And I told him exactly why. Hopefully he passed the word that listening to the helmsman, rather than just yanking on lines, pays off.

We've had the bow line pulled too tight so many times that I usually make sure it's unreachable by anyone ashore before we get close. I've seen them want to yank a bow line so badly that they've almost fallen in reaching for it. On this boat the bow is a bit higher, so it's easier to keep it out of reach.
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Old 17-05-2018, 09:01   #68
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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Originally Posted by Dave22q View Post
Generally I will say something like "would you like some help?". You can then answer yes or no hopefully followed by 'thank you'. Basic manners evolved for a reason!
Several years ago, we experienced a similar thing in an anchoring situation in a fairly crowded but large anchorage in the San Juans.

An old ferro sailboat kept trying to anchor with very short scope, over and over in various spots, and other boaters gave them the "look" with hands on hips.
I didn't do anything at first because they were never near us, but I kept an eye out.
Finally, it was time for me to do my good deed for the day, so I went over in the dinghy and asked, "Would you like some help?"
They immediately said "Yes!".
Nobody aboard had any idea about scope, so I gave them an anchoring lesson.
They hooked up the first time with plenty of room around them and profusely thanked me.
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Old 17-05-2018, 09:51   #69
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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Cherp brings up an interesting point: that if someone is active on here, people will develop ideas about their character, from writing done safely free of interaction on the poster's part, and then when the poster shows up in the flesh, in a stressful to them situation, the poster can certainly fail grievously to meet the unknown expectation

Certainly not unique to CF. Any forum or wiki or other electronically mediated means of social interaction poses this problem. I've encountered a number of people in real life who I previously knew from extensive interactions online. The incongruence between the online personae and the physical are stark.


Intelligent, creative people, especially those who have any sort of training as writers, inherently create an on-line persona that is different from who they are in real life. In many cases this is wholly unintentional and is just an unconscious, automatic application of their craft. At the far opposite end of the spectrum there are people who knowingly write with deception as their goal. Motives vary.


People manage the persona they project in person, as well, of course, but it's much harder to do in the moment because various physical cues give us away and there is less opportunity to edit our words.


Anyone who is as well-liked in person as they are in the forums can't possibly be a very good writer, can they?
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Old 17-05-2018, 10:20   #70
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

It's good to train people on the dock to help and folks operating their own vessel to know what's what. I once encountered a mini tug with a new owner getting instruction on his new boat. As I was on the way out there dock to go for a sail. I took their lines and stood by till the new skipper hopped down and made fast.. Then continued to my boat and made ready. Aware of the instruction taking place nearby, I sounded three long blast of the air horn and backed out.. Only to see the student come roaring out of the slip in reverse on a collision course.. Saved only by the rapid action of the instructor.. These fine individuals compensated for their error by giving me a one finger salute... Nice. One can never tell who you are dealing with.
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Old 17-05-2018, 12:35   #71
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Well gee whizz there certainly are a lot of tales of mooring interaction here...

We now have a holiday house in a quaint and popular sailing destination in Greece and it is entertaining to watch the various charter boats coming in to moor. Having done quite a bit of sailing in the past we are probably guilty of feeling superior when some boats go around and around so many times it makes you giddy. Normally I don't offer to take anyone’s lines unless asked to, because as Ann says there is usually a certain routine and personal pride involved in people doing it themselves.

However, there was one completely windless and sunny day, no tides remember in the Med., when the peace was broken by this unbelievably loud tirade by a man against I guess his wife on a 40 odd foot cruiser trying to dock. It went along the lines of, “look when I give you an order you repeat it back to me. No don't do that, no NO. I told you, you must do as I say...” This went on for several minutes while the boat drifted sideways into other boats and eventually the quay. It was unfortunately beyond funny. It just made me cringe for the wife and want to smack the guy on the mouth. A Greek priest walking by rolled his eyes to heaven and started chanting in a loud voice. I went to take a line from the woman and suggested quietly she could always divorce him but not surprisingly she couldn't see the funny side of it just then. He told her not to give me the line and for her to go to the bow to see to the anchor. In the end I insisted he gave me the lines, although he didn't want to, I then just tied them up and walked away. So I guess that was one holiday, maybe even relationship that went belly up.

As a team my wife and I were certainly not perfect, (she was always talking back if I remember rightly) and we certainly had our moments although we were usually grateful if someone offered to take our mooring lines, but it does make you wonder how some people get to charter a boat and what would happen if the wind really did get up.☺
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Old 17-05-2018, 12:47   #72
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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It's good to train people on the dock to help and folks operating their own vessel to know what's what. I once encountered a mini tug with a new owner getting instruction on his new boat. As I was on the way out there dock to go for a sail. I took their lines and stood by till the new skipper hopped down and made fast.. Then continued to my boat and made ready. Aware of the instruction taking place nearby, I sounded three long blast of the air horn and backed out.. Only to see the student come roaring out of the slip in reverse on a collision course.. Saved only by the rapid action of the instructor.. These fine individuals compensated for their error by giving me a one finger salute... Nice. One can never tell who you are dealing with.
" These fine individuals compensated for their error by giving me a one finger salute..." Yes, I've seen this, too. It's like instant blaming of you for what they did wrong. And, to me, that's really mean. Mean spirited. And, it happens.

When I was a kid, i wanted everything to be "fair." And of course, it isn't. But there's still part of me that wants that.

Ann
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Old 17-05-2018, 13:09   #73
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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When your bow was snug why not put your engine into reverse and turn the wheel towards the dock or am I missing something, which if so wouldn't surprise me.
I assume the bow was tied to tight, the curvature of the bow forcing the stern out.



I was once given instructions over the VHF to dock stern in, starboard tie alongside a long finger, but by the time I got to the dock the wharfinger had left and a strong wind was coming over the starboard side which would blow my bow off every time I tried to back in. To this day I don't know why I stubbornly kept trying to back in against the wind but by my fourth attempt half the dock was there to help — mostly because they were living in fear of me taking out half the boats on the dock as I abandoned my attempts.

Then it all went to h*ll... someone grabbed a stern line and pinned the stern, the bow blew out again but this time I couldn't get off the dock to try again. Luckily there were literally a dozen people who basically manhandled the stern up the dock, flipping my boat 180° and then pulling the bow in on the port side. I had zero control of my boat and basically just moved fenders and lines after it was obvious we were switching sides.

I still can't figure out if I am grateful or irritated at it all. ... Grateful (reluctantly) I guess because we ended up docked with no damage to anything. And it was my own damned fault to start with.
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Old 17-05-2018, 18:24   #74
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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When your bow was snug why not put your engine into reverse and turn the wheel towards the dock or am I missing something, which if so wouldn't surprise me.
What do you think turning the rudder accomplishes when the boat is in reverse (ie prop wash going forward) and the boat is almost stationary (ie no flow over the rudder)?

That's probably the biggest reason that backing in is harder than going in forwards. Once you are below about a knot of speed, the rudder doesn't do much in reverse. Going forward however you can use the prop wash against the rudder to move the stern sideways.

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Old 17-05-2018, 19:33   #75
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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Hello, everyone,

It has been brought to my attention that some years back, I was rude to someone well meaning,who wanted to help us tie up on a long wharf (not in a berth or pen), according to local custom. Now, what they see is a short, fat, white-haired old woman (ten yrs. ago I was only 68), who moves creakily, due to bad knees. So you can see how this happened.

From my point of view, I am someone who has been tying up our boat in new locations from the past 25 yrs. or so at the time, according to Jim's instruction, so I think I know what I'm doing, and there's this person standing on the wharf, right in between me and where I want to be! Depending on who you listen to, I asked or told him to move! ...and offence was taken that has simmered for a long time, and I regret that.
;
;
l


Anybody else have any stories to tell about docking interactions?

Ann

.


Hard knocks have taught me to never send ashore first, a line fastened at either bow or stern .

A useful concept is never to send ashore, to a dock side volunteer, a line that is not fastened to a cleat on board midships,

Send a spring line ashore first.

A line cleated at center can be sent ashore from either bow or stern as needed and the instinctive reaction of the shore helper to pull hard will not result in an end encounter with the dock.
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