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Old 16-05-2018, 13:07   #46
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
In the end itís our boats and we have to decide it we want to risk it with line helpers
^^^^^ This ^^^^^

Our boat, our money. Negligent helper does something to cause a big scratch and he/she says "sorry" then goes home to drink beer while we pay for the damage. Ugh!
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Old 16-05-2018, 13:25   #47
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Different ships, different long splices. It is a custom here, to put a number of crossing turns on cleats, but not to finish with a locking turn.

We always do ours one full round turn and two half hitches: a normal cleat hitch, for us. But that does mean, we re-secure most of our lines, and we prefer to lead the tails back aboard, so they aren't even tidily flemished., on the dock, where they collect grunge, but left secured to a lifeline, where they shed grunge.

Thinwater, I think it must be hardest for kids, because adults make the same incompetence assumptions that they do about elders; then let that elder be female, in the "men's world of sailing", and one is almost invisible, except for when one offends.

Lake Effect, he was taking out his failure to control his boat on you, and you knew it. It was kind of you not to say, "why didn't you ask? I thought you might know what you're doing."

Don't get me wrong, I don't remember the incident, so the guy did get out of the way and let me tie up or screw up on my own. And I am grateful for that. I am sorry, though, that I didn't find a polite way to what I wanted, and since I don't remember it, I am sorry it stayed with him so long and with so much negativity.

Also, to everybody, I'm reading all your stories, and they are comforting. There IS a conflict between helping and independence, and how we do it all affects how others feel. The guys who are paid, and angry about not having tips--shame on them; they should agitate for a living wage, and not feel like they have a right to tax "rich yachties," many of whom are not rich. There are many pre-conceptions in the world we have to deal with. Anyone who has had to ride in a wheelchair through an airport will suddenly know how it is to be "invisible" to others. A valuable experience, actually. That is also how females sometimes are, especially past breeding age, invisible.

Ann
Coming from old school Pommy sail training, it was IXO and no locking turn. Some used OXXO
The lack of locking turn is from dinghy sailing background to avoid risk of jamming, you can release a sheet or halyard easily
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Old 16-05-2018, 13:33   #48
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

A few years ago a beautiful Hinckley B-40 was having trouble getting into his new slip. He was pinned against 2 pilings on either side of his slip. I asked if he needed help. He told his wife to toss me the bow line which he handed to her coiled/uncleated. I suggested that she cleat her end of the line first. He yelled at her and told her to "just hold it tight and let him pull the boat in, we'll cleat it after"!

It took a long time to get to "after"!!!!

And that line was the only line even near the deck. All the rest were somewhere down below. HE WAS ALREADY at the dock!
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Old 16-05-2018, 14:55   #49
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Good thread. I thought it was just me that had those issues. I also have stories of guest crew taking or giving orders to inept dock hands.
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Old 16-05-2018, 15:27   #50
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Obligatory docking video:


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Old 16-05-2018, 15:35   #51
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

It is comforting that others have had their helper in the water, too. In our case, he was able to get out by himself, but that fear that ArmyDaveNY wrote so eloquently of, that you will crush the one in the water, boy is that strong, and boy, can it interfere with your docking plans!

zeehag posted to the effect that she might be feistier than me, and it might be true. For me, feisty, as such is not my common mode, but I have the potential, just try to keep it under control, because--and you should feel free to laugh--my Mom always used to say, "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." .....As if I wanted to catch flies, but for me, that day, I'm certain I was at least brusque. And I should have said Please and Thank You, too, and probably didn't at all.

Ann
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Old 16-05-2018, 15:56   #52
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

The first year or two of docking our big boat was high anxiety. As soon as we headed back in I would get real stressed out. The docking itself wasnít easy, making the boat do a 180 in a fast flowing narrow canal plagued with small power boats from the county dock made it special.

Not that I was amped up or anything but one day after docking i got off the boat and noticed noticed my toe hurt bad. Apparently I had somehow broken it during docking and had so much Adrenalin I didnít even notice.
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Old 16-05-2018, 17:07   #53
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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The first year or two of docking our big boat was high anxiety. As soon as we headed back in I would get real stressed out. The docking itself wasnít easy, making the boat do a 180 in a fast flowing narrow canal plagued with small power boats from the county dock made it special.

Not that I was amped up or anything but one day after docking i got off the boat and noticed noticed my toe hurt bad. Apparently I had somehow broken it during docking and had so much Adrenalin I didnít even notice.
I did my little toe, right foot, on a dock cleat on our very first landfall after crossing to HI from CA. Nuisance.

Ann
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Old 16-05-2018, 17:29   #54
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

How about this as a precaution? Make sure that any line that you hand to a stranger on the dock is too short to foul your prop!
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Old 16-05-2018, 17:33   #55
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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We always do ours one full round turn and two half hitches: a normal cleat hitch, for us. But that does mean, we re-secure most of our lines, and we prefer to lead the tails back aboard, so they aren't even tidily flemished., on the dock, where they collect grunge, but left secured to a lifeline, where they shed grunge.
Coming from big boats where we always send the eye ashore and cleat off on board where we have a capstan and line winches, that's what I tend to do on the small boat. Fellow boaters explained the benefit of sending the "tail end" ashore is that marina staff/dock neighbours can adjust your lines if you're away, without going on your boat. We normally do method #1, but will do the other if we'll be away from the boat for some time. I wonder what the benefit is if you tie off the excess to the lifelines? As others have said, if you pass the eye with specific directions to put it on a specific cleats, you generally avoid problems. I say "generally" because you occasionally get someone who ignores plain directions and starts yanking like an idiot. On one occasion, I got a bit short with such a dockhand, who thought he could singlehandedly pull 15 tonnes of boat broadside against a 25-kt wind and wound up on his ass. I apologized later.
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Old 16-05-2018, 18:50   #56
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Docking a large catamaran is always pretty easy, but dockside line-handlers are always handy if you're on your own. I've found that monohullers helping from the dock rarely allow for the degree of control you have on a cat. All I ever need is a loosely tied line at stern or bow so the engines can bring me snug against the dock and keep me there while I step off and do the rest. Helpers will invariably cleat off that line so tight there's no way you can move at all. I just shrug and ask them politely to loosen it off a bit. Helpers are always worth encouraging.
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Old 16-05-2018, 19:14   #57
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

We returned to our dock space once and a group had set up their chairs and fishing poles in our space, and were upset they had to move. Expected us to find another spot. Explained to them those black ropes on the cleats are our dock lines.

Another time a group had set up to watch fireworks. We had been out daysailing and returned shortly after dark. They were pissed that we parked our cat in front of them. Again, it was our slip space.

I'm amazed at how many people think a marina is a public park!
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Old 16-05-2018, 19:25   #58
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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So, what I see here is a conflict between community values, helping vs. independence.
Feeling a sense of obligation to accept unwanted help for the sake of building community is dysfunctional; c.f. Abilene paradox.

I often offer help of various kinds to strangers and am most often turned down. There is no obligation to accept assistance.


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As well, there may be an attitude among men that old women are incompetent: I have encountered that when I was a lot younger, and at that time, even young women were included in the "incompetent" expectation.
While I do not doubt that age and gender play a role, I will point out that the experience you describe is shared to some degree by people of all ages and genders.

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Anybody else have any stories to tell about docking interactions?
I think the thing to realize is that the experience of dockhands varies widely and the self-sufficient sailboat crew is the exception rather than the rule.

Smaller, lighter motorboats that plane are more common, and the approach to landing them is usually different. Around here nobody uses a spring line on a smaller outboard or stern drive. In all but the strongest wind they can be maneuvered right up to the dock and then pulled in by main force and that is what people do; conveniently, this works well for loading a boat onto a trailer when there's no place to attach a spring line.
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Old 16-05-2018, 19:51   #59
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Maybe the person who offered to take the line knew of both the boat and the people sailing it from their frequent activity on CF and the persona on show there and was a bit shocked at the reality. Or maybe he's just a tosser.
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Old 16-05-2018, 20:18   #60
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

I think weíve all been there Ann and Iím sure you did nothing that the rest of us wouldnít have. During docking, when someone steps in and interferes with the plan that you and the helmsman have made you just donít have time to politely explain why you are doing it a certain way. So you are forced to choose between very directly telling the unwanted helper what must be done (or ďget out of my wayĒ), or adopting the unwanted helpers plan without having any idea about his experience or what he has in mind. Any experienced boater who offers to help out with docking knows this and attempts to do exactly what he/she is told by the boats crew.
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