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Old 16-05-2018, 00:49   #16
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

I
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Hello, everyone,

It has been brought to my attention that some years back, I was rude to someone well meaning,who wanted to help us tie up on a long wharf (not in a berth or pen), according to local custom. Now, what they see is a short, fat, white-haired old woman (ten yrs. ago I was only 68), who moves creakily, due to bad knees. So you can see how this happened.

From my point of view, I am someone who has been tying up our boat in new locations from the past 25 yrs. or so at the time, according to Jim's instruction, so I think I know what I'm doing, and there's this person standing on the wharf, right in between me and where I want to be! Depending on who you listen to, I asked or told him to move! ...and offence was taken that has simmered for a long time, and I regret that.

.
This character has been stewing over this for TEN YEARS?!?!

LOL!

Tell 'em to get a life!
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Old 16-05-2018, 02:32   #17
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

I really don't know how long it was. He wrote that it was a few years. I went back far enough to be sure to include it. But, for me, it was an attack out of the blue, totally unexpected, but most likely truly deserved. I can be blunt. Particularly under stress. But one thing this thread has shown me, it that whilst docking, others similarly feel themselves stressed, although they may well be far more polite.

Ann
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Old 16-05-2018, 02:41   #18
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Other than well-known/familiar boating friends, I've found "help" from strangers on a dock offering to help to be often a distraction, making docking more problematic.
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Old 16-05-2018, 03:38   #19
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pirate Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Guess I have been lucky.. usually its been folks jumping off their own boats if conditions have been tricky and they'll take a line to where I ask or.. take a turn on a cleat and hold on till told otherwise..
I fear the many untrained marina staff who are clueless in the main yet shout instructions while holding the line slack and thus no use at all.. had a prop fouled on a 380 in Sicily like this..
Total waste's of space and good oxygen.
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Old 16-05-2018, 04:55   #20
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

When we bought our big boat I found the origional owner, the guy who had her built. I asked him this question “If you have one bit of advice what would it be?” His reply, unhesitatingly, “Stay out of marinas!” I think that is great advice. We anchor out 95% of the time anymore. Only go into marinas for fuel or water, and sometimes we jerry jug it.


I was helping another fellow dock, side to, new to him dual engine sport fisherman with one engine out, against 2 knots of current, narrow canal. He came in, I got the bow line on a cleat, all he had to do was steer into the current and she would have laid alongside. But he freaked and yelled to get the bow line off, I immediately complied. He then got swept across the canal into the trees and lost his starboard outrigger.

When I was new I’ve done worse, sometimes now I’m not much better. If I ever back a straight line when I want to I’m gonna go out and buy a. Big lottery ticket for its my lucky day.
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Old 16-05-2018, 06:20   #21
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

i help when folks enter a marina to dock... one time i helped i held line to cleat from bow. the guy was parallel parking his bmw, not docking a boat, and damned near pulled me into water. he had to do at least 10 in and out and parallel park moves as if boat were a car. i left.
a member here insisted on helping me long line bird from one slip to another for work... he was standing on lines and in the way i had to tell him no thankyou please leave.
as for my boat, i hand the midship line to helper, they stare funny like, whats this.. trust me in wind you want to secure midships lines first then address bow and stern lines if you use em. has been fun.
but, anne, i think i am more here comes the witch get outta da way person
than are you, but in situations involving boat and safety i am sure all of us are that. ...hahahahaha
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Old 16-05-2018, 07:26   #22
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

First off, it's just rude to grab someone's lines and start "helping" without at least first ASKING if they would like some help -- and that goes just as much for a 10-year-old or for an 80-year-old as it does for a 20- or 30-something. Second, when you offer to help someone you had darned well better be willing to take directions from them on how to help. Offering to help, and then insisting that you know better than they do what sort of help they can use is also remarkably rude. I have seen both of these sorts of behaviors, more than once.

On the other side, if someone offers to help, one should show some gratitude. Even if you don't want any help, at least say something like "Thank you, but I've got it." If you do accept the help then be sure to be effusively thankful when you are done.

Being polite and considerate are things that don't seem to be too much in fashion these days, but it's really not all that hard.

And, note to Ann, the OP... Based on your postings here I cannot imagine that you were really rude enough to justify holding a grudge for more than a few minutes, never mind several years! Some people are just over-sensitive.
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Old 16-05-2018, 07:52   #23
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Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Iím an airplane guy so I look at this boating stuff like flying.
Docking is like Landing, meaning itís time critical as in the correct actions have to be done at the right time. Just like in Landing itís a time that significant damage can be done as immovable objects are rapidly closing in on your vessel.
By definition it can be a stressful time, or not depending on conditions.
My biggest docking fiasco occurred helping someone else.
A big Leopard Cat was trying to dock alongside or the Marina in Panama City Fl, I could tell there was going to be an issue because more than one or two people showed up to help. Well the wife tossed me the bow line and asked me to tie it off to a pole, Husband threw it into reverse and was backing hard with the wrong engine and applied enough force to break off the pole.
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Old 16-05-2018, 07:54   #24
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

If they've been stewing over it for a decade...that's their problem, not yours.

Our worst landings have been when someone tries to help and makes an otherwise fine approach turn ugly. The worst have been marina workers who think they know what they are doing.

We do what we need to do and ignore them. Afterwards if they are still hanging around we thank them for offering help but our boat has unusual handling, so shoreside help often causes us issues...as far as I know, no one has been offended.
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Old 16-05-2018, 08:01   #25
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Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Ann, it is clear that you are sensitive to other peopleís feelings. That is why you are bothered by hearing this personís passive aggressive response to you. As far as Iím concerned if you are a witch you are Glenda the good witch.

Weíve all had well intentioned people take dock lines and do exactly the wrong thing with them. I usually say no thanks to people offering to help. Sometimes Iím stressed by the docking situation and maybe Iíll be shorter in my communication than I would be under other circumstances. Iíll add my apologies to any and all who I may have offended...just leave my dock lines alone unless I ask for help.
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Old 16-05-2018, 08:15   #26
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

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Ann, it is clear that you are sensitive to other peopleís feelings. That is why you are bothered by hearing this personís passive aggressive response to you. As far as Iím concerned if you are a witch you are Glenda the good witch. . . .
Indeed! But the person's bringing it up is a chance to apologize and make it good. Apologies -- like thanks! Are worth far, far more than they cost. A bottle, some flowers, or just a sincere "I'm sorry for being rude" ought to make it all good and clear the slate.

Good on you, Ann, for caring. By objective standards I doubt you did anything heinous, but objective standards exist only in theory. If the person was subjectively offended then it's worth trying to make it good somehow whether or not it was objectively reasonable for him to be offended.


As to the general problem of incompetent helpers -- no one can prematurely stop 24 tons of my boat by main force . Over here hardly anyone attempts anything like stopping your boat in the berth anyway. "Please just tie that off there, thank you!" usually gets more or less what you need even from the stupidest helper. When Baltic mooring bows first, outside help is almost essential even if you have a full crew, since it is hard or actually dangerous to jump onto the quay from the bow of the boat, and mooring is normally done to rings rather than lasso-able cleats. But there don't seem to be any stupid people in Fenno-Scandia, at least not on the quays, and people always come running when you start your approach.


One more observation -- a firm, calm, and confident voice is absolutely essential to successful docking where other people are involved, whether they are strangers on the quay or crew on your own boat. It is amazing how stupid everyone magically becomes when the skipper starts shouting. I think actually that on the water, shouting is a stupidity projecting mechanism.
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Old 16-05-2018, 08:17   #27
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

I offer assistance to anyone, regardless of sex or age, especially if conditions are not great. I don't assume inability or incompetence, but sometimes it can be easier with a little help. If they decline, no worries either.
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Old 16-05-2018, 08:30   #28
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

Generally I will say something like "would you like some help?". You can then answer yes or no hopefully followed by 'thank you'. Basic manners evolved for a reason!
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Old 16-05-2018, 08:40   #29
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

New guy on the dock, nice PacSeacraft 34. I go to help him and his partner dock, said nothing, did nothing, not askedf to do anything, didn't. Just said Hi.

Following week, I come in. Been doing midship spring line for decades, my lines are ON my dock, not on my boat. He comes running over, messes up my spring line and starts grabbing one of my stanchions.

I removed his hand.

From the stanchion that is.

Haven't seen him since.

Good.

I hate "help."
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Old 16-05-2018, 08:43   #30
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Re: Docking Interactions, or "Get Outta The Way, The Witch Is Here!"

I only throw the amidships line it's hard to screw that up and a competent helmsperson can work with that. Once we are along side and under control I hand off the bow and stern lines with instructions.

what gets my goat is all the pulling and pushing on the lifelines!
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