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Old 11-06-2022, 16:37   #16
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

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Lower prices? Hmmm I must be on the wrong planet kind of like how steaming services were supposed to be cheaper than cable, for a bit
Yes I think you may be on the wrong planet. Which incumbent satellite companies provide unlimited high speed internet for the $110 per month price of Starlink again? Also not sure where you pay more for streaming than cable, even though that's not really relevant to the conversation except the wrong planet part?
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Old 11-06-2022, 18:23   #17
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

I am using mine in Princess Louisa Inlet...200 mbps...incredible. Listened to streaming Spotify on the 6 hour trip in...even more incredible.


Most places I will be sailing this year has no cell service...I already cancelled my Iridium Go...it can't stream the Stanley Cup in Desolation Sound.


If Musk can't be president can we at least give him Canada to run?
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Old 12-06-2022, 04:11   #18
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

Really silly for Dish to be going this route. Would be far more beneficial for them to become a reseller for Starlink, with their existing userbase... just saying..
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Old 12-06-2022, 05:35   #19
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

["If Musk can't be president can we at least give him Canada to run?"]


Gladly, send him on up!!!
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Old 12-06-2022, 06:35   #20
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

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How do you know?

Well, since you asked, because I worked as an engineer or product manager in the launch of nine different licensed wireless data products using four unrelated technologies, between 1992 and 2021, and among other responsibilities prepared some of the paperwork that went to the FCC.
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Old 12-06-2022, 06:43   #21
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

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How the hell does the FCC have the ability to regulate a satellite signal being received on a boat in international waters?
It's not "a satellite signal being received" that's the concern... Starlink is a two way broadcast, both receiving and transmitting. There are no rules on what you can receive... it's the uplink transmission that the FCC is concerned with. If anybody could transmit at any frequency at any time at any power level they wanted with no oversight (licensing), the electromagnetic spectrum would be pure chaos and all you'd receive is noise!
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Old 12-06-2022, 07:15   #22
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

Data is the new white diamond. Not worth a fraction of the conversation.
Elon Musk is going to make a fool out of the data crooks.
Attah boy
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Old 12-06-2022, 07:26   #23
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

I have a Tesla will be 5 years old January 23, if you count 2 years of Covid. The car is having an affair with the factory for some time. If they wish to continue this sorrid affair by Satellite itís okay with me. My old BMW e36 stuffed in the barn needed an update. Had to make an appointment drive across the city.
When then can beam bummer parts to me Iím in.
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Old 12-06-2022, 10:18   #24
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

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I didnít say they donít. Itís just another example of an over reaching government stifling innovation.


Itís the transmission from the Mobike user thatís essentially being controlled. If it was not the spectrum would be unusable with too much uncontrolled contention
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Old 12-06-2022, 11:21   #25
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

I work in the same industry, and I have direct knowledge of how FCC and wireless licensing work.

In this case, Starlink is in violation because it does not have a license (at this time) for mobile use in that band, and thus it is not supposed to "encourage" prohibited usage of its equipment (which it is doing), and it is instead supposed to clearly state the allowed uses and the consequences to users in case of prohibited usage (which it is not doing).

Users using the equipment while moving are also in violation because it is a prohibited use, albeit they could argue (probably successfully) that Starlink did not adequately warn them, if they get caught.

In practice, Dish will likely be able to stop Starlink at least temporarily (until they get the proper licenses), because they do have a clear case to prove violation. Individual users are unlikely to get caught, because there is no "FCC force" actively trying to track them down, and it does not make sense anyway.

Incidentally, I do not think this is a case of a government agency over-reaching and trying to curtail innovation.
Regulation of the airwaves is necessary, otherwise it would be chaos and no service would be able to work reliably. FCC is notoriously corrupted and led by economic interests that have nothing to do with the interests of innovation or the benefit of consumers. However, although imperfect, FCC is necessary to keep the wireless industry going. Rules are rules, and FCC is there to enforce them.

Additionally, if FCC "closed an eye" on this, sort to speak, it would be extremely unfair towards all those manufacturers that do not have Elon Musk as their CEO, and thus have to follow the rules no matter how innovative their products are.

As for jurisdiction, wireless equipment is subject to the rules of the area it is transmitting/receiving from. The same equipment being used in EU would be subject to CE rules (sometimes even the bands are different) and require different licenses, in Asia they would be subject to yet a different set of rules and licenses.

Wireless equipment manufacturers, big and small, are adept to these different jurisdictions and get the proper licenses/certifications in all the areas they intend to operate, it is just a necessary aspect of doing business. In this case, Starlink has not fully complied with getting all the necessary license. The (true) fact that some license may take a long time to get does not excuse them from following the rules.
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Old 12-06-2022, 11:45   #26
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

Mobile licenses in this area of the spectrum are of course simply not handed out in many countries ď simply on applicationĒ. Some countries have spectrum license auctions etc and this prevents other operators from gaining unrestricted access. Thereís no guarantee starlink will over come these issues. Iridium has already fallen foul of this area before
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Old 12-06-2022, 11:57   #27
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

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Originally Posted by FabioC View Post
In this case, Starlink is in violation because it does not have a license (at this time) for mobile use in that band, and thus it is not supposed to "encourage" prohibited usage of its equipment (which it is doing), and it is instead supposed to clearly state the allowed uses and the consequences to users in case of prohibited usage (which it is not doing).

I'm really curious where people see Starlink "encouraging" users to use their dishes while in motion. I posted a direct quote from their website and I'm fairly sure it is in their TOS as well. It is enough to make me stow the dish while underway. I don't see the company doing any encouraging. Quite the opposite in my case.
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Old 12-06-2022, 11:59   #28
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

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Originally Posted by FabioC View Post
I work in the same industry, and I have direct knowledge of how FCC and wireless licensing work.

In this case, Starlink is in violation because it does not have a license (at this time) for mobile use in that band, and thus it is not supposed to "encourage" prohibited usage of its equipment (which it is doing), and it is instead supposed to clearly state the allowed uses and the consequences to users in case of prohibited usage (which it is not doing).

Users using the equipment while moving are also in violation because it is a prohibited use, albeit they could argue (probably successfully) that Starlink did not adequately warn them, if they get caught. . . . .


.
I guess you didn't read post #3 and are apparently making claims about Starlink without knowledge of Starlink policy.

Starlink clearly states the allowed use (not mobile) and consequences.

I also remember a recent thread about leaving your home area and roaming limitations. Starlink is not making it easy and encouraging mobile use IMO.
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Old 12-06-2022, 12:20   #29
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

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The question is, is Starlink in violation, or are users in violation of the license terms?
I think it's clear that Starlink has ambitious plans far beyond what it is offering now. They are promising to eventually allow satellite<=>satellite communication, rather than than the satellite<=>ground station they're offering now.

This will allow communication outside the current 12 mile limit.

In other words, they clearly have a plan that is far from complete, and that plan includes mobile stations. And I would guess that they've been clear with the FCC and other regulatory agencies as to what that plan is. And that that plan includes applying for mobile licenses at the appropriate time.

Which I would think would undercut any such lawsuit.
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Old 12-06-2022, 12:32   #30
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Re: Dish Feuds With SpaceX Over Starlink Dishes Being Used on Moving Boats, Cars

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I think it's clear that Starlink has ambitious plans far beyond what it is offering now. They are promising to eventually allow satellite<=>satellite communication, rather than than the satellite<=>ground station they're offering now.

This will allow communication outside the current 12 mile limit.

In other words, they clearly have a plan that is far from complete, and that plan includes mobile stations. And I would guess that they've been clear with the FCC and other regulatory agencies as to what that plan is. And that that plan includes applying for mobile licenses at the appropriate time.

Which I would think would undercut any such lawsuit.
Clearly the 12 mile limit is a function of territorial license restrictions and nothing to do with sat to sat or sat to ground issues. The regulatory issues are complex , we shall see what starlink offers , I canít see ď at sea ď use being that high on their priorities
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