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Old 17-01-2022, 04:53   #241
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

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MAYBE the “white smoke” you are seeing is moisture??

I see “white smoke” sometimes also but the Espar kicks on so I ignore it. I have always considered it just moisture in the line.

My exhaust is real long, just under the max specification, so that may add to it, more air to heat, more moisture.
If I was seeing white smoke from my heater I would suspect over fueling, or fuel getting into the exhaust down stream of the combustion somehow. I would expect water vapor from condensate to be very thin and short lived. Even if there was a great deal of condensate in the exhaust from a really big collection point, after the heater was up to temp and running well I would expect any water vapor to be "super heated" which is not visible or so diluted with the gallons and gallons of exhaust generated to also not be visible, while that pocket of water boils off.

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Old 17-01-2022, 05:35   #242
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

Since the “smoke” goes away shortly after run up I am pretty sure it is just moisture hitting cold air, like your breath.

If it persists, in the air or for a linger oeriod I would expect over fueling.

A third option would be over fueling during the start cycle, maybe worse if there was a failed start cycle preceding a successful one. But then again, it would burn off pretty quickly.

I would worry only if it were persistent.
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Old 17-01-2022, 08:47   #243
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
MAYBE the “white smoke” you are seeing is moisture??

I see “white smoke” sometimes also but the Espar kicks on so I ignore it. I have always considered it just moisture in the line.

My exhaust is real long, just under the max specification, so that may add to it, more air to heat, more moisture.
I thought that too but putting my hand in it it's dry and smells of exhaust. If it was humidity I'd assume it would be wet.

My exhaust is pretty long as well, two doubled walled pieces together.
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Old 17-01-2022, 08:59   #244
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

Does it persist? Mine is only visible for a few minutes at start up.

If yours is constant the clearly not moisture or unburnt fuel at startup.

If it is diesel smoke then I would expect it to build up incomplete combustion debris and stop working shortly.
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Old 17-01-2022, 14:22   #245
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

Ours only seems to smoke before it fires up.
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Old 17-01-2022, 14:29   #246
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

I think that is kind of expected, a wee extra bit if diesel on the glow plug dosen’t completely combust at first.

Maybe it is the same with mine, or a combination.
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Old 17-01-2022, 17:33   #247
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
I think that is kind of expected, a wee extra bit if diesel on the glow plug dosen’t completely combust at first.

Maybe it is the same with mine, or a combination.
There is always a portion of atomized diesel fuel that doesn't burn upon ignition but will clear out of the exhaust within a minute or so then the condensation as the exhaust warms above vapor temperature of the water accumulated in it .
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Old 02-02-2023, 16:28   #248
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

Apologies if this is bad form -- last post is about a year ago but I am having very similar symptom as described by @DefinitelyMe.

I installed the tank about 3 feet directly above the pump, with ~13 feet of hard nylon 2mm ID line travelling horizontally to the heater, rising about 3 inches. This exceeds the recommended length, but its almost entirely horizontal, and I left the last 6 inches of fuel line visible at the heater; it appears to move fuel through it quite well, only a small bubble every 20-30 clicks of the pump.

When I first installed, I was using a smaller tank to test the setup -- this worked well for about 6 hours in the garage, barely any smoke after hte first startup.. but i under-filled the test tank, stepped away and forgot about it, and it ran dry -- came back to e-08. I was able to start it up again, but it didn't startup as smoothly, requiring longer to get going each time, and slowly developing more and more issues. e-08 became common, and eventually it wouldnt not ignite at all, giving e-10.

I dissassembled, cleaned out all the carbon build up, swapped the atomizing screen and glow plug (these were fine it turned out, same results with the old & new), re-assembled. I was able to get the heater to ignite but it wasn't perfect, the exhaust would now make a "popping" sound as though it was backfiring, but eventually get going and run very smoothly.

Ran for a week this way, then just wouldnt startup yesterday, e-10 after each of half-a-dozen attempts. If i prime the fuel line briefly, for about 10-15 seconds or more, the glow plug seems to be able to ignite the fuel at first, as I can hear the faint "rumble" starting up fairly quickly as the power-on begins -- but as the pump starts clicking, right in time with the first click, the rumble immediately goes silent, as though the pump itself is extinguishing the flame. The ignition "rumble" starts again almost immediately as the pump stops and the heater gives up, then subsides as the glow plug kicks off again. I am still getting the occasional backfire pop but it never lights up like it was previously. Get a lot of white smoke throughout.

I imagine its quite coked up again now, and will dissassemble and clean it again, but like @DefinitelyMe I can only do this so often, and it hasn't even been a week since I last had it apart. I need to solve the source of this issue -- I've swapped glow plug and atomizing screen already, i've checked my wiring, confirmed fuel is moving through line with little to no air bubbles, tried running on kerosene/diesel mix. The only thing I can think of is how the sound of the flame seems to disappear right as the pump first clicks on, that the amount of fuel being pumped into my 2kw unit must just be too much, and smothers the flame? My kit came with 22 ml pump -- however there is information that suggests the 2kw should have a 16-18 ml pump, and the 5kw a 28 ml pump. Did the chinese sellers just split the difference to avoid having to make two pumps? I found a 16 ml pump and have just received it, will be attempting to install it this evening, but I'm just guessing at this point.

Anyone have any further insight to share?
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Old 02-02-2023, 17:09   #249
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

Year 3 5kw and I've replaced exhaust 1x and the manual thermostat 1x. I keep hoping not to run into problems like yours so I follow. Good luck
One thing that struck me is your horizontal fuel line after the pump. I think it's pretty picky.. I even have my pump angled up and the fuel line does a nice easy even ride up hill, easily 1foot+. My fuel pump is near the bottom of my main fuel tank it siphons from.
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Old 02-02-2023, 17:15   #250
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverwind View Post
Apologies if this is bad form -- last post is about a year ago but I am having very similar symptom as described by @DefinitelyMe.

I installed the tank about 3 feet directly above the pump, with ~13 feet of hard nylon 2mm ID line travelling horizontally to the heater, rising about 3 inches. This exceeds the recommended length, but its almost entirely horizontal, and I left the last 6 inches of fuel line visible at the heater; it appears to move fuel through it quite well, only a small bubble every 20-30 clicks of the pump.

When I first installed, I was using a smaller tank to test the setup -- this worked well for about 6 hours in the garage, barely any smoke after hte first startup.. but i under-filled the test tank, stepped away and forgot about it, and it ran dry -- came back to e-08. I was able to start it up again, but it didn't startup as smoothly, requiring longer to get going each time, and slowly developing more and more issues. e-08 became common, and eventually it wouldnt not ignite at all, giving e-10.

I dissassembled, cleaned out all the carbon build up, swapped the atomizing screen and glow plug (these were fine it turned out, same results with the old & new), re-assembled. I was able to get the heater to ignite but it wasn't perfect, the exhaust would now make a "popping" sound as though it was backfiring, but eventually get going and run very smoothly.

Ran for a week this way, then just wouldnt startup yesterday, e-10 after each of half-a-dozen attempts. If i prime the fuel line briefly, for about 10-15 seconds or more, the glow plug seems to be able to ignite the fuel at first, as I can hear the faint "rumble" starting up fairly quickly as the power-on begins -- but as the pump starts clicking, right in time with the first click, the rumble immediately goes silent, as though the pump itself is extinguishing the flame. The ignition "rumble" starts again almost immediately as the pump stops and the heater gives up, then subsides as the glow plug kicks off again. I am still getting the occasional backfire pop but it never lights up like it was previously. Get a lot of white smoke throughout.

I imagine its quite coked up again now, and will dissassemble and clean it again, but like @DefinitelyMe I can only do this so often, and it hasn't even been a week since I last had it apart. I need to solve the source of this issue -- I've swapped glow plug and atomizing screen already, i've checked my wiring, confirmed fuel is moving through line with little to no air bubbles, tried running on kerosene/diesel mix. The only thing I can think of is how the sound of the flame seems to disappear right as the pump first clicks on, that the amount of fuel being pumped into my 2kw unit must just be too much, and smothers the flame? My kit came with 22 ml pump -- however there is information that suggests the 2kw should have a 16-18 ml pump, and the 5kw a 28 ml pump. Did the chinese sellers just split the difference to avoid having to make two pumps? I found a 16 ml pump and have just received it, will be attempting to install it this evening, but I'm just guessing at this point.

Anyone have any further insight to share?
Dirty or dead photoeye. Aka flame sensor .
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Old 02-02-2023, 17:33   #251
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

Would be nice to know what model.

It's probably a fuel problem.If you have the small dosing fuel pump shown, it needs to be mounted at about 45° to enable the air bubbles it creates to pass thru. The pump caviates when running. If it's mounted horizontally, a large bubble develops in the pump and blocks flow and the also the needed lubrication from the fuel. The small bubbles don't effect the firing.

The fuel line needs to mount in a continuous upward direction with no loops.
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Old 02-02-2023, 18:12   #252
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

Thanks for replies -- I have one of the cheapo chinese 2kw heaters, this one: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0B4FTKJ81/

I have the pump oriented at exactly 45 degrees, thank you for that reminder. So the fuel line is not perfectly horizontal, it rises about an inch off the pump and curves back within the first foot of the fuel line to about 1 inch below the pump level, then travels horizontally for 11 feet (its not perfectly horizontal, in one section the line is suspended from above, and the resulting "sag" in this suspended section maybe rises/falls about a 1/2 inch), then rises 3-4 inches into the heater over the last foot. The fuel is visible at this last section, the line is clearly full of fuel, though I can't really tell that its moving until the occasional bubble passes by -- but when one does, it moves very quickly/responsively in time with the pump clicks. I suppose its possible its not moving at times when there aren't any bubbles to indicate the fuel movement, but I assume its nonetheless moving, and I just can't visually see it moving without the intermittent bubble. I have never noticed the pump missing a click or anything else out of what i'd expect, as far as the pump goes.

I don't think the pump's functionality nor the fuel line are problematic necessarily. I just wonder if the fully working 22 mL pump could be pushing too much fuel into the heater and causing flame out. I have come across a few threads like this one, where users of these chinese diesel heaters speculate that a 2kw heater should have a 16 or 18 ml pump, not the 22 ml one that came with my kit. Its all entirely speculative, however, and these discussions never reach any conclusion in this regard.

I recently found this amazon listing for replacement pump that echos this pump-capacity spec ie 16ml for 2kw. https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B08LL22JXS

Now I have one, but have yet to swap into my setup, may be waiting til tomorrow at this point, just trying to cover all my bases before I invest the half-day it will likely take me to unbolt the heater, dissassemble, decoke, swap pump, etc.
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Old 02-02-2023, 18:18   #253
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

Well I just finished a full rebuild of a planar 9D heater it does a great job on my friends 55 ft trawler. It stopped running for him when the photo eye got a coat of soot on it from 2 months of running on low
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Old 02-02-2023, 18:21   #254
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

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Well I just finished a full rebuild of a planar 9D heater it does a great job on my friends 55 ft trawler. It stopped running for him when the photo eye got a coat of soot on it from 2 months of running on low
do you know if these chinese heaters have the same photo eye? There is a temperature sensor that sits on the outside of the aluminum body, held in place by a metal spring clip. I removed this during disassembly and it its just aluminum underneath, the sensor appears to be just a thermometer, unless there is another inside i am not aware of.

I have not watched this whole vid, just clicked through looking for an example of the type of sensor I have -- its much like shown here, this is the only sensor i am aware of, I am not sure these chinese models have any sensor that detects the presence of flame itself, just the heat:

On the note of this sensor, my controller shows heat level in 6 bars (mine is the red version that is commonly included in these kits, similar to the black and blue ones but w/ different button layout). Glow plug can heat it up the first 2 bars. When that "rumble" ignition sound starts, in conjunction with the pump starting, it typically then activates the 3rd indicator bar, then fan spins faster, and temp indicator goes up from there til all 6 bars are lit.

Right now, my glow plug gets me the first two bars as it did when it was igniting properly, i get that rumble sound, but that sound stops when pump turns on, and anywhere from 20-40 seconds after the pump starts clicking, i lose one bar on the heat indicator, and sit at 1/6 til the pump deactivates completely and the heater enters its failed ignition process... bizarrely, the "rumble" sounds I associate with ignition begins again as soon as the pump gives up, and the heater then returns to 2 bars on the indicator before the fan kicks off, the rumble sound dies once again, and the controller shows e-10
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Old 02-02-2023, 18:28   #255
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Re: Diesel Heater Advice

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Originally Posted by Riverwind View Post
do you know if these chinese heaters have the same photo eye? There is a temperature sensor that sits on the outside of the aluminum body, held in place by a metal spring clip. I removed this during disassembly and it its just aluminum underneath, the sensor appears to be just a thermometer, unless there is another inside i am not aware of.
Well the chinees units have a flame sensor but not a photo eye it looks something like this .Some have a heat sensor instead of flame sensor
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