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Old 01-04-2018, 14:38   #16
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

Sojourner,
Your exactly right, the current residence will be converted to a rental to produce additional passive income. Will still have insurance, taxes, and maintenance on my rental properties.

Regarding what I plan. I plan to only do what my experience level will permit. Starting out that will just about be zero. I will stay inside the bay for a while and slowly venture out as a gain experience and confidence in my abilities and the boat's abilities (which will hopefully exceed my abilities by a long shot).

Ideally, I would like to cruise up and down the Pacific coast and visit the Channel Islands. Then who knows after that. I want to make sure I purchase a boat that will not limit me or make me question Blue Water (sorry for the buzz word) sailing if my skills are up to snuff at that point. But water sailing">Blue Water sailing is not a goal at this point. I'll be happy just to get outside of SF bay!

Sailorboy1, Group9,
Thanks for the input. I actually searched the site extensively. As mentioned I'm looking for specific advice from people based in the area I would like to keep the boat and advice on whether my budget is realistic for that area. Have to start somewhere! If no one asked questions there would be no answers.

SailorChic34,
Exactly the details I was looking for! I'm going to check out the places you mention. Sounds like finding a slip is a chicken and egg proposition. They want you to have a boat before you can get a slip, but how do you buy a boat if you don't have a slip?
Based on what your saying though it sounds like it be good to visit those marinas as I get closer to purchasing a boat and start getting to know the people that run the harbors (harbor master, etc...) so I'm not just a voice on the phone.
The last comment you made that non-liveaboard slips are easy to find? ok, I didn't know that. So I stand a good chance of at least finding a slip, and then go on the waiting list for liveaboard? At least there's the option you mentioned about a temporary guest slip like Marina bay ($19/day for liveaboard) if I'm not able to find anything immediately.

Again, thanks, this was the information I was looking for! Oh, and thanks on the advise about the silting. Will at that to the, "Items to Check", slip search todo list!

Gamayun,
Thanks for the feedback on the costs I listed. Hopefully I'm in the ballpark on what it will cost. Yeah, sails are the unknown. I'm hoping sails would, on average, last at least 5 years. If not, that could be cost prohibitive. I'm not "planning" to work once I quit and liveaboard. I have some passive income. Hoping it will be enough...
Yes, I'm going to go to many of the CG Auxiliary courses, navigation, electronics, etc... and maybe even spurge for some hands-on training even though it will be expensive. But I think it will be worth it.

You have me curious about the "scary moments". Anything you can share?


Hi waterman46,
Thanks for the feedback! That's encouraging that I'm not underestimating the costs. Better to come in too high than to low and not be able to afford it. That would take all the fun out of it to be worried about finances all the time! Kind of defeat the whole purpose.

Here's the rates from the Fortman web site. Hopefully they keep their site up to date!
Fortman Marina - New Berth Rates


Hi Greg,
Good advice! That's interesting what you mentioned about the insurance! Thanks for that. I'm going to add that to my check list. Need to make sure I can get insurance before I commit! Guess it's a bit more involved that adding a new car to your policy!

Yes, deciding on what type and configuration of sailboat may be the biggest challenge for me. As mentioned in my original post, I tend to way over analyze everything.

The thing that probably makes me the most nervous is being able to repair the more complex items like electronics, engine, etc.. while at sea. Not like you can just call a tow truck. That's where I really want to be prepared before heading outside the gate. Small baby steps I guess!


Thanks again everyone, this is very helpful. I'm liking the boating community already!! Makes me want to be a part of it even more!

Mike
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:26   #17
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Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

When I left land and moved aboard I compared my terrestrial expenses vs live aboard. I came out cheaper on a boat due to eliminating my HOA and Annual property taxes
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Old 02-04-2018, 05:39   #18
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

If you have purchased a 40ft boat old enough to cost less than 200k then your maintanence costs will be much higher; even with a 40k upgrade budget.
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Old 02-04-2018, 07:13   #19
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobel View Post
If you have purchased a 40ft boat old enough to cost less than 200k then your maintanence costs will be much higher; even with a 40k upgrade budget.
Well I don't agree with this. I brought a 41' boat that is now 17 years old. I pay $115k and have owned the boat for 7 years now. I spend a lot on maintenance and upgrades and have been full time live aboard/cruiser the past 19 months. Yet I haven't spent $40k on upgrades and I keep track so I'm positive.

When people ask about budgets they need to look for 2 things:
1 - documented recorded numbers
2 - info on how the people in #1 use their boats so you can make a adjustment decision

The thing they don't need are:
1 - it costs whatever you can afford
2 - it costs 10% (or anything similar)
3 - I read somewhere xxxxxx
4 - one sentence "answers"
5 - "not counting"
6 - I spend $xxxx, but if you ask detailed accounting they can't do it

I have posted my past 18 months of costs here on the forum. I reported all costs and didn't do any "not counting". If you spend time you can find blogs with budget numbers that are real life true and these make for good research. But, many cruisers etc. don't post their numbers because people like to give them crap and "you spend too much on xxxx" or how they can "do better" even though they are guessing or giving you the number they are hoping for.

It's amazing how little real info on costs you can find considering how important it is to deciding to go long term cruising.
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:00   #20
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

I stand corrected. A yacht world search shows 15 boats out of tens of thousands that are 10 years old at the time of purchase for <=150K in North America. Many more elsewhere in the world.

If you live aboard and are proficient at fiberglass repair, your boat has all the electronics for cruising, you dive to clean the hull, you do your own bottom paint, you do your own brightwork, sail repair and replace, etc, etc, then maybe a 10k yearly maintenance budget will suffice. My 34ft was 22 yo when I bought her for 100k 10 yrs ago; upgrades and maintenance to keep her offshore worthy averages 15k/yr. She looks good and I trust her to cross the Atlantic.

So I guess how you plan to use your boat will ultimately influence your maintenance cost. But I also feel age is a big factor.
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Old 06-04-2018, 11:27   #21
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobel View Post
I stand corrected. A yacht world search shows 15 boats out of tens of thousands that are 10 years old at the time of purchase for <=150K in North America. Many more elsewhere in the world.

If you live aboard and are proficient at fiberglass repair, your boat has all the electronics for cruising, you dive to clean the hull, you do your own bottom paint, you do your own brightwork, sail repair and replace, etc, etc, then maybe a 10k yearly maintenance budget will suffice. My 34ft was 22 yo when I bought her for 100k 10 yrs ago; upgrades and maintenance to keep her offshore worthy averages 15k/yr. She looks good and I trust her to cross the Atlantic.

So I guess how you plan to use your boat will ultimately influence your maintenance cost. But I also feel age is a big factor.
WOW. Your costs for upgrades and maintenance seem to be at least 5x higher than anything I've seen from cruisers who post their costs (outside of one-time initial boat restoration projects anyway, though averaged in you'd still be way above anything I've seen posted). I'd be interested to know what $150k got you in upgrades and maintenance in the past 10 years. for a 34' boat. Seems to me you could replace all the standing rigging ($3-4k for a boat that size I'd estimate), running rigging (under $2k for a boat that size I'd estimate), and standard electronics (say another $3-4k) every year with lots of money left over bottom paint, new throughulls, tank cleanings, hose replacements, engine maintenance, etc.

Pretty much every cruiser that has posted budgets I've seen has average maintenance costs (when infrequent things are added in) of less than 3% of the boat value. So I'm really surprised to see you at over 15% annually. Are you paying HCOL area shops to do every simple maintenance item for you (like going to a dealership and paying $80 for an oil change you could do in 20 minutes for $20)? Hiring people to clean your decks weekly? or what?
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:03   #22
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

Here's some links to budgets of people cruising. Most seem to have no problem doing it on around $3k/month, a few a bit over that. The general rule of "you'll spend what you have" seems to be fairly accurate from what I've read though Sail Far Live Free - Relent to Water Wanderlust!: What does it Cost to go Cruising?
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Old 06-04-2018, 13:39   #23
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

I may spend more on my boat than I have to. But she is pristine and reliable. Your cost estimates are low if you buy top quality. My first upgrade was over 70K and included Awlgrip repaint of topsides, mast inspection and repair, improved stern rail, inspect rudder, reseat keel bolts, full electronic package (Raymarine ST70,two e120's, autopilot), set up navinet, clean and refurbish aluminum fuel tank, etc.) This was all factory done. Next round was done at dockside - head sail furler, electric windlass, removable forestay, long genoa tracks 1.5" on the gunwales, and more for around 17K. Next was repowering the 4500 hours old engine with new Beta Marine 25K. Polish and re-coat fiber glass water tanks, boom kicker, new mainsheet track and car around 12K. Now I have found a cracked chainplate - so all the chain plates and standing rigging will be replaced. While standing rigging might be replaced for 4K - hydro cut eight new plates, modify bow roller to accommodate the bow plate replace all standing rigging and custom make new mast tangs (cuz they don't make them anymore) costs 15k. Replace running rigging alone for cutter rig is $2000. Replacing all lights for LED including tricolor mast head light, fore deck steamer light, etc cost $3000. New main with mainsail track upgrade $3500. There is a lot I have not included. You can see it adds up quickly. Repairs are maintenance so I include them. I include $200/mo for hose down and hull cleaning. I did not include $700/mo dock fees (i could keep her on the hard for 150/mo).

Now she would float without having done a thing. And I could even go for a daysail once in a while. But now she can go around the world. I only hope I can.
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Old 06-04-2018, 14:16   #24
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

There have been a number of people who have shared their costs, which have helped me to better understand the range of possibilities for me. I enjoy and appreciate everyone who shares their information. Sailorboy's monthly expenses are great and SV Bebe's costs are fantastic as well. There are a few others out there as well that seem equally as detailed.

My take is this:. You can cruise, live and have a great time on somewhere between $4-7K per month all in for a 40-50 ft boat. Can it be done for less, of course. Can it be done for more, absolutely. Maintenance, location, marinas, and boat all drive a lot of variances.

I would also say that some maintenance is deferred for long periods and then comes in waves. Old electronics, generators, auto pilots, sails, rigging, heads and countless other things can go a long time before a replacement is needed. I commend Bobel for taking such great care of his boat and being willing to share his experience. He has brought his boat up to very high standards, but many of those costs won't be seen again (hopefully) for many years in the future. It has been expensive to keep/get the boat in great condition but hopefully his costs decline or level out for a few years. There are some who would not have done all those things and been able to say they did it for less. They may even be able to sell their boat without doing them, but the next person would likely have to tackle at least some of the projects.
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Old 06-04-2018, 15:17   #25
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcnuke View Post
WOW. Your costs for upgrades and maintenance seem to be at least 5x higher than anything I've seen ... Hiring people to clean your decks weekly? or what?
From what I've read here (and other forums) this is exactly why people don't share their expenses; bombastic responses to the amount they paid for ______.

Thank you Bobel for exposing yourself and your decisions. I'll take all the experiences and costs I can get.
Even better, your itemizing is immeasurably helpful.

(OK, "bombastic" might be exaggerating but you get the point)
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Old 06-04-2018, 15:34   #26
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

In South Carolina the boat stays in the water all year. I am on the Stono River, which is part of the ICW. The current at my slip has been has high as 4.5knots. The growth in this setting is tremendous. The hull get scraped twice a month or it will be covered in marine life despite bottom paint of Petit Trinidad (high copper). Pelicans and otters love my boat so she gets washed once a month and waxed every six months. Because I don't live near my boat I have to pay for some of these routine things that I would o/w do myself.
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Old 06-04-2018, 15:35   #27
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobel View Post
I may spend more on my boat than I have to. But she is pristine and reliable. Your cost estimates are low if you buy top quality. My first upgrade was over 70K and included Awlgrip repaint of topsides, mast inspection and repair, improved stern rail, inspect rudder, reseat keel bolts, full electronic package (Raymarine ST70,two e120's, autopilot), set up navinet, clean and refurbish aluminum fuel tank, etc.) This was all factory done. Next round was done at dockside - head sail furler, electric windlass, removable forestay, long genoa tracks 1.5" on the gunwales, and more for around 17K. Next was repowering the 4500 hours old engine with new Beta Marine 25K. Polish and re-coat fiber glass water tanks, boom kicker, new mainsheet track and car around 12K. Now I have found a cracked chainplate - so all the chain plates and standing rigging will be replaced. While standing rigging might be replaced for 4K - hydro cut eight new plates, modify bow roller to accommodate the bow plate replace all standing rigging and custom make new mast tangs (cuz they don't make them anymore) costs 15k. Replace running rigging alone for cutter rig is $2000. Replacing all lights for LED including tricolor mast head light, fore deck steamer light, etc cost $3000. New main with mainsail track upgrade $3500. There is a lot I have not included. You can see it adds up quickly. Repairs are maintenance so I include them. I include $200/mo for hose down and hull cleaning. I did not include $700/mo dock fees (i could keep her on the hard for 150/mo).

Now she would float without having done a thing. And I could even go for a daysail once in a while. But now she can go around the world. I only hope I can.
Excellent response. I can easily see how you spent so much now. I had a friend who had $60k invested in his BMW after buying it. It was a great car. The stock version of that vehicle worked perfectly fine for everything it was designed to do, but he wanted better and had the means. I didn't care and I spent maybe $5k over 7 years on maintenance for mine instead. Either approach is a perfectly acceptable thing for a person to decide. It doesn't, however, mean it is necessary for others to spend the same to have the same general capabilities.

Hence why I find statements that such spending is "necessary" to make a boat seaworthy, despite the clear evidence of plenty of seaworthy boats not having anywhere near the budget for upgrades etc, a bit incredulous. I'd like to say I'm not saying your wrong on this point, but the thousands of boats that travel the world's seas without spending $15k/year in maintenance provides sufficient evidence for me to say that it is clearly not actually required or necessary. I pay someone to mow my lawn and clean my house. I'm not going to imply to a person looking to buy a home that it's a necessary expense though.
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Old 06-04-2018, 15:56   #28
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

The thing you should respond to those that post their expenses is:

Thanks!!!!!

It’s their money and they can spend it any way they want They are doing planners a flavor by doing it and it’s up to you to take what and how they spent THIER money on to help with you making your own budget!

I’m planning to continue my series till the end of year 2. But I don’t know about after that even though for the most part the tolls have given up thinking I care about their opinions.
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Old 06-04-2018, 15:57   #29
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

I have conceded that I spend more than I have to in order to maintain this 33 yo boat in Bristol fashion. But for every boat that spends less than the average of 1200/mo for maintenance, upgrades, and repairs - there are boats that spend more. And for all these there are even more that are abandoned and derelict.

I can't think of too many expenditures I would have foregone and then sailed beyond the gulf stream. Although it would have been possible. I could have left the incandescent power draining lights and made it. The 33 yo standing rigging might get me sailing - but through a storm? Did I really need the auto pilot though I am a solo sailor. I do not have air conditioning. I have not converted to propane (still use CNG). I did upgrade my ice box to a cold plate which is a luxury I could have avoided and which was included in the first upgrade cost.

I think you are right - what I am willing to spend may exceed what is necessary. But the costs of a boat reflect the owners attitude toward safety, reliability, and performance coupled with the age of a boat and its intended use.
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Old 06-04-2018, 16:16   #30
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Re: Cost of live aboard - Sorry another one of those questions

Your budget is quite reasonable. We put bought our boat for 20k put about 30k in upgrades into it and are finding the 2k a month to be a reasonable figure. We can slim back if we need to but its nice to stay in the occasional marina and go out to eat/drink.

To gain experience I highly suggest going down to your local yacht club and asking which boat needs crew. Race boats always need crew. Its a great way to make friends and learn some of the finer points of sail trim. Its also free sailing lessons.
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