Composting toilet: rules, regulations, and "real life" use etc.?

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by fxykty

So before you crank you have to stand back up and then wipe, or wipe while sitting down, whatever, and during that time the fresh deposit is on top and exposed. Isn’t that smelly?

Not mine.

Don't you think you'd have this with any other toilet? I'm not sure I understand your concern.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

Not mine.



Don't you think you'd have this with any other toilet? I'm not sure I understand your concern.

With a flushing toilet the deposit is under water - no more fresh deposit smells.

I’m challenging from a positive place - I agree that a composting head is generally a better option for a boat. But it’s over NZD1,000 for even the cheapest commercial head so I’m nervous about making the switch without satisfying my objections, and those of my fiancé (her biggest worry is about not being able to aim her urine, and she just laughed when I told her about C-head’s ladle diverter). So we’ve still got a fair bit of hill to climb before we agree to ditch the plumbing for a glorified bucket.

Hmmm, I’ll take a bucket, peat, and a toilet seat and make my own composting head in my garage and use that to test. Real life beats internet any day. Stay tuned.

Please, users of composting heads, what are your experiences?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by fxykty

With a flushing toilet the deposit is under water - no more fresh deposit smells.

I’m challenging from a positive place - I agree that a composting head is generally a better option for a boat. But it’s over NZD1,000 for even the cheapest commercial head so I’m nervous about making the switch without satisfying my objections, and those of my fiancé (her biggest worry is about not being able to aim her urine, and she just laughed when I told her about C-head’s ladle diverter). So we’ve still got a fair bit of hill to climb before we agree to ditch the plumbing for a glorified bucket.

Hmmm, I’ll take a bucket, peat, and a toilet seat and make my own composting head in my garage and use that to test. Real life beats internet any day. Stay tuned.

Please, users of composting heads, what are your experiences?

I have linked to my diy composter earlier in this thread it only costs a couple bucks mostly for the urine diverter ( large oil funnel) build the surround out of scrap wood .
( I'm currently working on a diy mixing paddle and gp crank stay tuned ) for now I just add a Hand full of peat over current deposits.

[Mike OReilly]

My poop smells immediately after being deposited in my Nature’s Head. So did my poop in my standard marina Skipper’s Head, as it does when I poop on land. I don’t know anyone who has pristine, zero-smelling poop.

As Copacabana says, a quick churn, close the lid, and the smell is gone. If that’s ain’t acceptable for your fiancé, then may I suggest a cork .

Just kidding of course. Seriously, I get where you’re coming from. It is a big move, and without direct experience, it’s a bit of a leap of faith to take the word(s) of anonymous netizens. All I and others can keep saying is that the systems work as advertised.

[JPA Cate]

foxykty,

For your experiment, why not follow newhaul's plans for the one he made? I would think that even if the individual poop was extremely stinky (as it can be if one is ill), once the lid was closed, you wouldn't have objectionable smell, especially so, once the poop is stirred and mixed thoroughly with the dessicant, which will compost somewhat, over time, and then smell earthy. I used to put all my dog's poop into our garden compost bin, which was of course out of doors, and not stirred often, maybe once a month from May through October, which I did with a pitchfork, trying not to bother the earthworms. But the point is that dog poo stinks, too, normally, and draws flies, but once covered with the week's grass clippings, one never noticed it.

The deal with the fiancee may be difficult. She is unlikely to be familiar with just how much hassle for you, her beloved, having and maintaining holding tanks can be. How much does she want to haul around fermenting poo waiting for pump outs? If she thinks poo smells bad fresh, she should try to imagine it fermenting. Think outhouse or dunny. It is also hard to find plastic hose that is truly odor impermeable. It may be difficult to source at a semi-reasonable cost in NZ. If you have plans to cruise in the States at all, or the Great Lakes, I think you'd both be happier with a composting toilet than having to plan around frequent pumpouts. There's also the issue that it is heavy, and your Outremer, she just may not desire to carry that particular load.....

Another thought, if you can't get to a pump out facility, and you over-fill your holding tank, a combination of excrement and urine will flow out the vent tube, unless it is so plugged that the tank bursts. The latter is my worst nightmare about holding tanks.

I don't know if you have plans to do any high latitude sailing, but if you are going to spend a lot of time where it is very cold, composting will not work once it is freezing out.

Some women produce urine and feces at the same time, ejecting at the same moments from each orifice, and I have wondered about how a composting toilet would cope under those conditions, and, as you suggest, how the people would then cope with it.

Ann

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

foxykty,

For your experiment, why not follow newhaul's plans for the one he made? I would think that even if the individual poop was extremely stinky (as it can be if one is ill), once the lid was closed, you wouldn't have objectionable smell, especially so, once the poop is stirred and mixed thoroughly with the dessicant, which will compost somewhat, over time, and then smell earthy. I used to put all my dog's poop into our garden compost bin, which was of course out of doors, and not stirred often, maybe once a month from May through October, which I did with a pitchfork, trying not to bother the earthworms. But the point is that dog poo stinks, too, normally, and draws flies, but once covered with the week's grass clippings, one never noticed it.

The deal with the fiancee may be difficult. She is unlikely to be familiar with just how much hassle for you, her beloved, having and maintaining holding tanks can be. How much does she want to haul around fermenting poo waiting for pump outs? If she thinks poo smells bad fresh, she should try to imagine it fermenting. Think outhouse or dunny. It is also hard to find plastic hose that is truly odor impermeable. It may be difficult to source at a semi-reasonable cost in NZ. If you have plans to cruise in the States at all, or the Great Lakes, I think you'd both be happier with a composting toilet than having to plan around frequent pumpouts. There's also the issue that it is heavy, and your Outremer, she just may not desire to carry that particular load.....

Another thought, if you can't get to a pump out facility, and you over-fill your holding tank, a combination of excrement and urine will flow out the vent tube, unless it is so plugged that the tank bursts. The latter is my worst nightmare about holding tanks.

I don't know if you have plans to do any high latitude sailing, but if you are going to spend a lot of time where it is very cold, composting will not work once it is freezing out.

Some women produce urine and feces at the same time, ejecting at the same moments from each orifice, and I have wondered about how a composting toilet would cope under those conditions, and, as you suggest, how the people would then cope with it.

Ann

Ann that's the purpose of the urine diverter. It collects the urine and sends it where it needs to go same with the poop it doesn't matter when do the deposit is left behind.
Btw guys do that to sometimes .

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Ann that's the purpose of the urine diverter. It collects the urine and sends it where it needs to go same with the poop it doesn't matter when do the deposit is left behind.

Btw guys do that to sometimes .

But is a funnel enough of a diverter or should we consider a fancy moulded pan like Separette www.separett.com/products/accessories/privy-501 ?

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by fxykty

But is a funnel enough of a diverter or should we consider a fancy moulded pan like Separette Privy 501 | Separett ?

Ya know, a lot of this depends on your fiancee. the two orifices are very close together, and she might have to sit funny on the seat. I hope the two of youse are discussing it together. I couldn't tell from the photo of the separett, if the urine catcher pan extends far enough towards the back.

Ann

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

foxykty,



For your experiment, why not follow newhaul's plans for the one he made? I would think that even if the individual poop was extremely stinky (as it can be if one is ill), once the lid was closed, you wouldn't have objectionable smell, especially so, once the poop is stirred and mixed thoroughly with the dessicant, which will compost somewhat, over time, and then smell earthy. I used to put all my dog's poop into our garden compost bin, which was of course out of doors, and not stirred often, maybe once a month from May through October, which I did with a pitchfork, trying not to bother the earthworms. But the point is that dog poo stinks, too, normally, and draws flies, but once covered with the week's grass clippings, one never noticed it.



The deal with the fiancee may be difficult. She is unlikely to be familiar with just how much hassle for you, her beloved, having and maintaining holding tanks can be. How much does she want to haul around fermenting poo waiting for pump outs? If she thinks poo smells bad fresh, she should try to imagine it fermenting. Think outhouse or dunny. It is also hard to find plastic hose that is truly odor impermeable. It may be difficult to source at a semi-reasonable cost in NZ. If you have plans to cruise in the States at all, or the Great Lakes, I think you'd both be happier with a composting toilet than having to plan around frequent pumpouts. There's also the issue that it is heavy, and your Outremer, she just may not desire to carry that particular load.....



Another thought, if you can't get to a pump out facility, and you over-fill your holding tank, a combination of excrement and urine will flow out the vent tube, unless it is so plugged that the tank bursts. The latter is my worst nightmare about holding tanks.



I don't know if you have plans to do any high latitude sailing, but if you are going to spend a lot of time where it is very cold, composting will not work once it is freezing out.



Some women produce urine and feces at the same time, ejecting at the same moments from each orifice, and I have wondered about how a composting toilet would cope under those conditions, and, as you suggest, how the people would then cope with it.



Ann

Thanks Ann, good points.

My sweetie is well aware of the trials and tribulations of boat plumbing. We use our holding tank for short periods of time only as we are often in legal dumping areas (far enough off shore typically) and haven’t had to resort to a pump out. It’s only a 40 litre tank so it certainly doesn’t last very long with full time use - a good excuse to go for a sail but that wouldn’t work in the Great Lakes (though we’re not planning to go there, but are planning on the west coast from Alaska, Inside Passage BC, then WA, OR and CA on our way south).

We have over filled the holding tank once and had the joy of the mess in our bilge. At least that was motivation to perform maintenance on the whole plumbing system. Unfortunately it’s in the owner hull.

On the other side of the boat we have no holding tank at all (!!) so that’s the side we’re addressing first. Rather than installing a holding tank and everything else, I want to try a composting head. If it works there, we’ll convert the owner side as well.

Yes, we do plan on high latitudes, but since these are dessicating heads rather than truly composting the cold should be just fine. Dryer in fact, so that should help dry out the poop mix too, right?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Ya know, a lot of this depends on your fiancee. the two orifices are very close together, and she might have to sit funny on the seat. I hope the two of youse are discussing it together. I couldn't tell from the photo of the separett, if the urine catcher pan extends far enough towards the back.



Ann

Yup, gonna test this in our garage before sending a boat buck to C-head.

A local distributor has the Separett seat and it’s only a fancy dinner out in cost. The garage test starts shortly!!

This will also test whether going churnless is fine or whether we really need a mixer.

Hmmm, still wondering whether I could DIY. No offence to newhaul, but I’m no ship right and I don’t want anything too ugly in our boat. Also need to consider the air-secure outer shell.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by fxykty

But is a funnel enough of a diverter or should we consider a fancy moulded pan like Separette Privy 501 | Separett ?

I sprung for the Separette diverter and seat (the most expensive piece of plastic I have ever bought). It works great but I am sure a funnel could be made to work just as well.

The thing about the Separette, is that it LOOKS like a "store bought" product.
This certainly adds credibility in the minds of certain skeptical/squeamish persons.

My DIY head:

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by fxykty

One of the purported benefits of composting heads is absence of smells, particularly that of head hoses. That makes sense to me.

But what about the fresh deposit? That certainly smells, and all of the composting heads just mix it in with or cover it with some peat or whatever medium you’re using. But it’s still a fresh batch of poop, which smells. So what’s the actual ‘during the business’ or ‘immediately after the business’ smell is there? Please explain.

With a flushing head the fresh poop is removed, so you don’t get that smell. Ventilation and/or a quick spritz of air freshener and you can stay in the same room, wash your hands, and brush your teeth without smelling what you’ve just done.

I wish I knew someone in Auckland with a composting head so we could try it. Certainly my experiences with camping toilets and other portable toilets has been smelly and not reassuring that the composting heads have solved the problem. But I really want to replace the direct flush toilet ASAP.

I just got off a boat that had both a Raritan Elegance electric head and a Natures Head.

I used both, on the 21 day, 1200nm voyage.

This was my first experience with a CH. I have sailed on many boats, and usually the heads stink. I detest portable toilets, because of smell too.

The Raritan Elegance was very nice, with push button choices for water use and flushing. It generally cleaned the bowl at the touch of a button. It used fresh water for flushing. It was the nicest Head I have used on a boat. If you want a deluxe Head, this is a good choice. My only concern would be the need for fresh water, the need for electricity, and the hidden plumbing, in case of blockage. Also, we had to pump the holding tank when we got fuel, which took a long time and is always a hassle. We also had one stop where the holding tank was pumped with a portable pump. The boat I was on had 400 gallons of fresh water, so much more available than typical boats.

The Natures Head was partially full.
Even so, there was no "outhouse" odor at all.
Unless you look into the deep tank, you will not see the poop.
There was no apparent objectionable odor. Certainly nothing as bad as what a typical head smells like on old boats with smelly heads or bilges.
I suspect the vent and fan helps.
I was surprised that even a full jug of urine had no noticeable odor.
The urine diverter worked well.
The trap door was always closed when not pooping and ten turns of the compost stirrer was done each time, and the lid to the toilet kept closed.
We simply dumped the urine bottle overboard when offshore, and emptied it into a marina Head when in a marina stop. The bottle holds over 2 gallons. We had two bottles.

Based on what I have read, and now experienced, I will want a Composting Head on my future boat.

Hope that helps.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

...I don't know if you have plans to do any high latitude sailing, but if you are going to spend a lot of time where it is very cold, composting will not work once it is freezing out.

Some women produce urine and feces at the same time, ejecting at the same moments from each orifice, and I have wondered about how a composting toilet would cope under those conditions, and, as you suggest, how the people would then cope with it.

Only speaking about Nature’s Head, the diverters that direct urine one way and feces the other, are all part of the standard design. My Ann tells me she does nothing special. We’ve had a small number of female guests on board, and none have ever told me there were any issues.

I’ve never sailed in truly high latitudes, but most of my cruising has been done in colder areas (northern Ontario/Lake Superior & now Newfoundland). No problems with this cold. While the outside may be very cold, if the boat is kept at livable temps, composting will continue to work. And while the composting action will slow in cold temps, the drying/desiccating action carries on just fine.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by fxykty

With a flushing toilet the deposit is under water - no more fresh deposit smells.

I’m challenging from a positive place - I agree that a composting head is generally a better option for a boat. But it’s over NZD1,000 for even the cheapest commercial head so I’m nervous about making the switch without satisfying my objections, and those of my fiancé (her biggest worry is about not being able to aim her urine, and she just laughed when I told her about C-head’s ladle diverter). So we’ve still got a fair bit of hill to climb before we agree to ditch the plumbing for a glorified bucket.

Hmmm, I’ll take a bucket, peat, and a toilet seat and make my own composting head in my garage and use that to test. Real life beats internet any day. Stay tuned.

Please, users of composting heads, what are your experiences?

Fxyktx, I realize my previous answer was a bit flippant, but it wasn't my intention. I understand your concerns. In fact, I went through the same process when I bought my Natures Head. I'm in Brazil and there are no composting heads here, so I had no way of checking one out beforehand or anyone to talk to who had one on their boat. Also, with the insane import taxes in Brazil, the Natures Head was going to cost me close to USD1,800! I wanted some reassurance that it was going to work as advertised. So, I began searching the net (forums like this one) and read everything I could. What I found was virtually EVERYONE who had installed a composting head was very happy with it (at the time, I found only 2 cases of buyer regret). Non-users had a few negative things to say, mostly related to handling the poo, dumping urine and the "idea" of composting, but these were people who had never used one. Well, I knew I wanted to be free of my manual seawater toilet, hoses and holding tank, so I ordered my Natures Head. This is my experience with Natures Head (now going on 5 years with one):

The unit is well built, sturdy and doesn't look cheap (it is up to the level of proper boat finishings). The handling of urine and poo has proven to be easy and not in the slightest bit disgusting. I dump the urine overboard every night and every once in a while dump the solids bin, which is exactly like rich earth- no smell and no bits inside that look like poo. Best of all, there is NO SMELL at all on my boat. Importantly, it has worked without mishap with men, women, children and different guests. In other words, there is no issue of anatomy getting in the way. I can honestly say that it has worked exactly as advertised and has surpassed all my expectations. It is, by far, the best upgrade I've made on my boat. If I were you, I'd take that leap of faith and just order a Natures Head. You won't regret it and your wife will not be put off by it at all once she starts using it. If you have any specific questions, just ask. There are plenty of us here who have compsting toilets who can answer your questions.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Panope

I sprung for the Separette diverter and seat (the most expensive piece of plastic I have ever bought). It works great but I am sure a funnel could be made to work just as well.

The thing about the Separette, is that it LOOKS like a "store bought" product.
This certainly adds credibility in the minds of certain skeptical/squeamish persons.

My DIY head:

Panope, I have to say that your DIY composter is the nicest I've ever seen.