Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

[a64pilot]

I put this here as many who live aboard regularly use Chlorine to sterilize their water and tanks.
I have aluminum tanks and have been searching for a viable replacement for Chlorine in an attempt to save my tank, and have stumbled on what appears to be a real, honest link between using Chlorine to sterilize water and hardening of the Arteries. From what I can find the greater the amount of Chlorine the more the effect, and often boaters will use levels of Chlorine that are pretty high, and if you live on your boat, then the level of exposure is orders of magnitude higher than the average person living on land, if your dosing with Chlorine.

Do any of you Medical Professionals out there have an educated opinion on this? Is there really a link?

[zeehag]

chlorine is a poison.
chlorine is bad for your bilge pumps and stainless water tanks as well as your lungs and body.
oops.
keep on using it....

[skipmac]

I'm assuming a good, activated carbon filter that leaves little to no chlorine smell/taste in the drinking water eliminates this concern?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I'm assuming a good, activated carbon filter that leaves little to no chlorine smell/taste in the drinking water eliminates this concern?

I would also assume this is true.
Start doing some Googling, I have and it seems chlorinated water and breast cancer and other cancers as well as hardening of the arteries is real. I mean real sites, CDC, Scientific American, other real sites, not the nut ones proving Elvis is alive.
I bumbled into this and am now thinking that some of us that regularly add half a cup of Clorox etc to our water tanks thinking it's the healthy thing to do, well it may not be.
I am not abdicating not disinfecting water and bringing such lovely diseases like Cholera back.
Just maybe find safer methods, filtering our water with charcoal block filters and not going for the Clorox.

[RickG]

Wow. A quick search shows published papers that show a correlation between chlorine and atherosclerosis. 2/3 of exposure through inhaling steam in the shower?

I have had whole house carbon block filters because of the irritation of chlorine and chloramine dosed water in the shower and drinking water. But, haven't had that problem on the boat. We have a seagull filter for drinking water and an RV filter for water going in the tank.

Cheers, RickG

[jcapo]

A half cup of chlorine is insane unless you have really large tanks. Two tablespoons per 100 gallons is a lot.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I would also assume this is true.
Start doing some Googling, I have and it seems chlorinated water and breast cancer and other cancers as well as hardening of the arteries is real. I mean real sites, CDC, Scientific American, other real sites, not the nut ones proving Elvis is alive.
I bumbled into this and am now thinking that some of us that regularly add half a cup of Clorox etc to our water tanks thinking it's the healthy thing to do, well it may not be.
I am not abdicating not disinfecting water and bringing such lovely diseases like Cholera back.
Just maybe find safer methods, filtering our water with charcoal block filters and not going for the Clorox.

er .. photo taken on Mars expedition....

[hafa]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I'm assuming a good, activated carbon filter that leaves little to no chlorine smell/taste in the drinking water eliminates this concern?

While carbon filters are good at removing odor and undesirable taste from water (most in the form of VOCs), some pathogens are not removed with a carbon filter. A sufficiently powerful UV light, however, is very effective at killing them.

Our home is off-grid for water (as well as power), with 30k gal. water stored in light-tight concrete tanks. Our treatment is this:

1) 5 micron filter before NSF pump
2) UV reactor after pump
3) Charcoal Carbon filter at sink

We've been drinking the water from our system for 12 years without any issues. A quick search for 12V UV water purifier turns up results here and here.

The first unit is very affordable, has a reasonable power profile, and incorporates a carbon filter as well in a single compact unit.

[skipmac]

I have also read an article about the dangers of breathing chlorine vapors in a shower.

Bottom line, chlorine is very nasty stuff. That's why it does a good job of disinfecting water, it kills things like bacteria. It was used as a WMD in WWI and Iraq. Company I used to work for sold pool chemicals. A warehouse where they stored chlorine tablets had a fire and the city evacuated everyone for blocks.

Chlorine gas is shipped in huge quantities in rail cars for industrial use and is considered one of the most dangerous things on the road. If you want to read something really scary download the SDS for chlorine gas.

[dennismckim]

Anytime you want to read the actual studies that support or refute medical claims, I recommend the US "National Library of Medicine" at
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
Just enter the search terms (such as chlorine atherosclerosis) and PubMed will search 26 million articles. Most will give the abstract of the article; some will link to a free copy of the entire article.

[a64pilot]

As a small kid, one of my trips to the ER was caused by me bending over and down into the barrel of chlorine powder we put into the pool as it was almost empty. I must have taken a deep breath of chlorine gas because I could not "catch" my breath, I was coughing horribly.
My Father was a pilot and happened to have the O2 bottle and put me on O2 and off to the ER we went.
There were other trips of course

[JPA Cate]

A64pilot,

We have a friend with an all aluminum boat, so the chlorine in the water supply was a problem for him. He eventually came up with a two filter system that he puts between the city water supply and the input to his tanks that filters all the chlorine out, he thinks. I don't know how you could check that the removal is total. Any ideas?

(Imo, we really don't want to drink sterile water, just water that is safe for us, like A64Pilot suggested, no cholera need apply!)

hafa: do you happen to know the power consumption of the unit you're using?

Ann

[thinwater]

Any pet store (or Amazon) will have test tapes for free chlorine (NOT chloride--that's different). You want ti have a detectable residual (0.1-1ppm) after 1 hour. More is NOT needed or better, and 4ppm is the USEPA upper limit. Typically only 1 tsp bleach/50 gallons is needed. You don't need much if the water is clean.

After carbon block filtration the number should be ~ 80% lower, but many variables affect this, including flow rate and filter age. Carbon filtration while filling the tank is generally ineffective because the flow rate is FAR too high--most hose filters remove only 5-15% at 5 gpm. I've tested many. All they actually catch is the junk that sheds from the hose and pipes, which is a valuable service, although they clog quickly.

The purpose of pre-filtration is 2-fold: to keep sludge out of the tank and to reduce the production of chlorination by-products. The cleaner the source water, the less chlorine is needed, the less there is for the chlorine to react with, the better the product.

And for what it is work, carbon does not adsorb chlorine, it reacts with it, being sacrificially burned in the process. In fact, low levels of chlorine can extend the life of carbon block filters, by burning off organic contaminants.

I think we're waving the bloody shirt here. Simply use chlorine properly.

I cover treatment and rainwater collection in detail here ("Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts"). I have also done a good bit of testing for articles.
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I put this here as many who live aboard regularly use Chlorine to sterilize their water and tanks.
I have aluminum tanks and have been searching for a viable replacement for Chlorine in an attempt to save my tank, and have stumbled on what appears to be a real, honest link between using Chlorine to sterilize water and hardening of the Arteries. From what I can find the greater the amount of Chlorine the more the effect, and often boaters will use levels of Chlorine that are pretty high, and if you live on your boat, then the level of exposure is orders of magnitude higher than the average person living on land, if your dosing with Chlorine.

Do any of you Medical Professionals out there have an educated opinion on this? Is there really a link?

Not a medical professional, just a water treater guy.

You have been drinking chlorinated water all you life in the US. Do you really think doing so on the boat is going to be different? A charcoal filter for drinking will remove the chlorine for taste etc.

A good alternative to chlorine for your aluminum tanks would be hydrogen peroxide. I'll let you do the research (been covered here before).

[appick]

Let's clarify you are using sodium hypochlorite, otherwise known as laundry bleach or bleach. Chlorine is an element. There are many other chemical compounds with Chlorine that can be used for sanitation and some of those are safe for aluminum, or aluminium for our UK friends
Chlorine dioxide is one that would work well.