Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-07-2022, 09:50   #1
Registered User

Join Date: May 2022
Boat: Saga 43
Posts: 11
Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

Hi Cruisers,

I'm looking for advice on my anchoring setup/procedure:

I have an all chain rode. I use a Sea-Dog chain grabber attached to a bridal leading back to port/starboard cleats. (like the image below.)

My current anchoring procedure: I drop the anchor. I let the boat drift back while letting out the appropriate amount of chain. I let the anchor dig in for a bit under the force of the wind/current. When I feel like the anchor has started to grab the bottom I set it by slowly engaging reverse. I increase throttle until I'm at about 50% and let it pull for about 30 seconds watching for drag. I then cleat off my bridal lines and lower the chain grabber onto the chain. I finagle the grabber until it slips over a link. Then I ease the windlass until there is a slight sag and the bridal is taking the load.

My questions are:

1) Is it okay to set my anchor with my windlass taking the load?
2) Is placing the chain grabber from above the chain correct. I've heard another cruiser describe engaging the chain grabber from the bottom and then easing out a good deal of chain so that its hanging down on either side of the grabber. My worry is that without any sort of retention device, the chain grabber relies on tension in the system to remain engaged.
3) Advice on any other aspects of my setup/procedure would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help!


Click image for larger version

Name:	SeaDog.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	26.0 KB
ID:	260552
kellmic5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 10:21   #2
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 24,746
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

Sounds pretty good to me.
I just back down to maybe 1500 rpm or so, and keep it there a bit as you do, watching for drag. Always on the windlass. With a gradual pull it will be ok. No hard jerking!
I always just used a forged chain hook with the built in loop, and a Clark's Head knot or Clew knot for a double bridle. No extra hardware/shackles, no issues.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 13:14   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 5,485
Images: 7
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

That's a very nice looking arrangement kellmic.

Your anchoring technique sounds good also.
__________________
Satiriker ist verboten, la conformité est obligatoire
RaymondR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 14:36   #4
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 25,108
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

For us, we back down a lot like you do, except the process sounds like we take longer. After the boat has swung back by the wind, and current if any, then we stark backing down, but we do it in steps, starting about 1200 rpm (idle is 850), then at 16-1700, then at 2000-2200 (our red line is at 2500). If it drags at 2000, we'll up anchor and look for another piece of bottom.

We also just use a chain hook, and the weight of the chain holds it on, never had one come agley. Our snubber is led over the roller, next to the chain.

We have dragged during setting a few times, mostly due to soupy mud, but also to a towel and board shorts. At anchor, due to soft mud and strong gusts (it was about 60-65, and gusting stronger during a frontal passage), but only twice in all our years. (~36)

Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 15:09   #5
Registered User
 
Bill O's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Boat: Bruce Bingham Christina 49
Posts: 2,737
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

We have a similar bridal plate/grabber (old ABI before Sea-Dog) and your question 2 is a real concern that it can fall off if there is no tension on the chain.

We were in a tight anchorage (w/short scope) and saw a tornado starting to form not to far away. Made mention we would possibly have an issue if we swung 180 degrees quickly. Within a minute, the boat did swing 180 and it lost chain tension throwing the grabber off the chain. Luckily the anchor held, but decided the grabber need a "keeper" across the slot to keep this from happening again. We added tube webbing and clip onto one grabber shackle. After attaching to the chain, we clip it across to the other grabber shackle so it can't just drop off unexpectedly. Never had an issue since.

We put the grabber over the top of the chain and attach the keeper under the chain.
__________________
Bill O.
KB3YMH
https://phoenixketch.blogspot.com/
Bill O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 15:23   #6
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 3,972
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

Depends on the boat

Being an ex commercial trawler with a ducted prop our bollard pull at 1500 rpm would be approx 5 tonne
Things are going to get exciting and not in a good way.

We would never set letting the expensive and crucial windlass to take the punishment
Aways on snubber and a light bump in and out of gear on a windless day
Most of the time let windage and weight do the set
Anchor alarm on.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 15:31   #7
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 8,695
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

Attach from under the chain. You want to be able to hang a lazy loop of chain from it.


Yes, a lock is very handy, particularly if it will ever touch the bottom (mostly a catamaran problem). Neeves has some particularly advanced variations on this concept (see Practical Sailor Magazine).

__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 17:24   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Morgan 382
Posts: 642
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

I attach the bridle on the foredeck where I can easily get to it, then let out more chain to take it out to the scope I want. It's easier than hanging over the pushpit fussing with the chain.

I also don't set the hook with the windless. I use the bridle, but really short, only about 1' so it is still completely on the foredeck. Basically like a chain stopper, which I don't have.
__________________
-Warren
wholybee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 17:41   #9
Registered User

Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 284
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

Having tried all kinds of chain hooks and grabbers, and such, I can say that they all SUCK. If I said what I thought they actually sucked I'd get kicked off the forum (rightly so). They (almost all) fall off when tension is not maintained.

They are all shortcuts to avoid tying a knot. Damit, we are sailors. Knots are our lives.

We only ever use a rolling hitch to attach to the chain, and use 30 feet (at least) of line. That has NEVER failed.
ItDepends is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 17:43   #10
Registered User

Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 284
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Attach from under the chain. You want to be able to hang a lazy loop of chain from it.


Yes, a lock is very handy, particularly if it will ever touch the bottom (mostly a catamaran problem). Neeves has some particularly advanced variations on this concept (see Practical Sailor Magazine).

Seriously? Those dinky little shackles and carabiners? NOWHERE near as strong as your chain. A TOTAL WEAK LINK!
ItDepends is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 17:50   #11
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 13,316
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

If you can reach the chain try a Dyneema soft shackle instead of the plate.

Kinder on the chain, cannot fall off, can pass over the bow roller without damage, cannot bend and jam, and can be cut in an emergency.
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 18:01   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Boat: 2017 Leopard 40
Posts: 2,479
Images: 1
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

I think it unwise to load up the windlass with a powered set. With a “new generation “ anchor I find it unnecessary to use the engine to set the anchor also. I prefer to ease out the rode in reverse, with full scope, set the bridal up, and let the wind/current take out any slack. These anchors set themselves, and a gentle gradual pull while it soaks is more effective than a strong tug immediately after deployment. If no wind or current I might give it a gentle pull in reverse just to straighten the rode, then let it soak. Haven’t dragged yet doing this.
SailFastTri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 18:07   #13
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 8,695
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItDepends View Post
Having tried all kinds of chain hooks and grabbers, and such, I can say that they all SUCK. If I said what I thought they actually sucked I'd get kicked off the forum (rightly so). They (almost all) fall off when tension is not maintained.

They are all shortcuts to avoid tying a knot. Damit, we are sailors. Knots are our lives.

We only ever use a rolling hitch to attach to the chain, and use 30 feet (at least) of line. That has NEVER failed.

A rolling hitch on chain has been proven by both cruisers and in lab testing to slip at about 1/3 the chain working load limit. Several well-know world cruisers recommend tying two in series because they have had rolling hitches slip. In testing on 1/4-inch chain, the hitch "rolled" as low as 500 pounds. The problem is the way the chain links reposition under load.


https://www.practical-sailor.com/saf...p-anchor-chain


Possibly you've never critically loaded your chain.


ps. I've never had a locking chain hook come off.


pps. I don't really have a favorite method. A plate is very good for cats. A Prusik or soft shackle comes over the rollers nicely. But after testing the rolling hitch on chain, it is the one method I never use. At least tie a camel hitch (one turn changed), which is many, many times more secure. Then forget the rolling hitch.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 18:12   #14
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 13,316
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
A rolling hitch on chain has been proven by both cruisers and in lab testing to slip at about 1/3 the chain working load limit.


Unfortunately rolling hitches slip in extreme conditions.
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 18:48   #15
Registered User
 
Uncle Bob's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sydney Australia
Boat: Fisher pilothouse sloop 32'
Posts: 2,973
Re: Chain Grabber Position For All Chain Rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItDepends View Post
Having tried all kinds of chain hooks and grabbers, and such, I can say that they all SUCK. If I said what I thought they actually sucked I'd get kicked off the forum (rightly so). They (almost all) fall off when tension is not maintained.

They are all shortcuts to avoid tying a knot. Damit, we are sailors. Knots are our lives.

We only ever use a rolling hitch to attach to the chain, and use 30 feet (at least) of line. That has NEVER failed.
Perhaps if you were to learn how to use the hook properly you too would be happy with them. If sufficient chain is deployed after setting the snubber it forms a loop which hangs down preventing the hook separating from the chain, regardless of the rode tension.
__________________
Rob aka Uncle Bob Sydney Australia.

Life is 10% the cards you are dealt, 90% how you play em
Uncle Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rode

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Considering switch to all chain rode R_C Anchoring & Mooring 43 05-01-2016 13:15
All Chain Rode Opinions ADMPRTR Anchoring & Mooring 45 04-03-2011 17:17
All Chain Rode . . . Overkill ? RSMacG Anchoring & Mooring 56 25-09-2010 15:33

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:44.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.