Canadian liveaboard Bahamas

[RickyG]

Hello,

Looking to get more info about Canadian liveaboards in the Bahamas. I now have a boat in the Bahamas and would like to hear from any other Canadians living aboard in the Bahamas.

I was initially thinking about spending my 183 or 182 days there over the winters (will be going down for shorter stays this year and next) due to the Non Resident situation with CRA and also to keep my Ontario Health insurance. I have also been thinking about going there and just staying and packing in this frozen tundra altogether but was wondering if anybody else has done this and if so how have they dealt with their tax situation and medical. I'm not too concerned about non residence tax because my income will only be CPP and OAS and a small pension, but believe it or not that would be enough for me to live comfortably there.

I'm not sure there is any official Bahamas residency option for this as I don't seem to be eligible for the Annual Residency Permit and definitely not the Permanent.

Anybody have any experience with any of this? Your views or comments would be appreciated as per taxes, tax returns, medical, drug plans, non residency status, complications, issues etc.

Thanks

RickyG

[Morgan Sailor]

Let me start by saying I'm not living aboard in the Bahamas, but I am Canadian.

First, the CRA wants you to remain a resident so they can continue to collect taxes. It's actually rather difficult to declare yourself a non resident. If you have any connection, and I mean any ( business interests, home rented out etc), they consider you a resident. I wouldn't worry about the CRA.

As for your OHIP, it's up to you to tell them if you have been out of the country longer than the permitted time. If you don't tell them, they will never know.

Here's an interesting tidbit. If you are a Canadian citizen, the government (CBSA) doesn't know if you are in or out of the country, they don't keep track. Your name stays on a flight manifest until you land safely, then it's destroyed. Besides, it isn't like the CBSA sends a list to the CRA or OHIP about the travel habits of Canadians.

I know of a senior couple with dual citizenship. They spend about 10 months per year out of the country, and come back for two. They use their OHIP all the time upon returning, and have never had an issue. Same goes for CRA. They are in the same situation as you (CPP and OAS recipients). They file their taxes every year without issue. The only thing is you should probably have an address to list on your tax returns.

Hope that helps


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[RickyG]

Thanks for the info, good to know! So there is no departure and return record or clock triggered when they scan your passport at the borders. I had even heard that you have to be careful of staying under the 183 days after you come back by watching your day trips out of the country. I could maintain a cdn address and file a return. I did read that you lose your GIS but stop getting OAS if they classify you as NR. My income when I retire will qualify me for the max GIS so that's an extra $6,000. So right now that would be my major concern. I would likely come back each year to visit family and friends.

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[RickyG]

Sorry meant to say "keep getting OAS"

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[Morgan Sailor]

I can't say for sure what records CBSA keeps, but I'll tell you this. I work in law enforcement, and a few years ago I was tracking a wanted guy. I had info he had left the country so I called up the CBSA. The info I provided above is what they told me. Because he was a citizen, they did not keep track of his movements. Now that was a few years ago things may have changed.

Having said that, the senior couple I mention have been doing this for about 8 years now without any problems. Actually, the male half of the couple was out of the country for about 3 years. He had to come back to renew his drivers licence and OHIP. He came here, renewed everything, had a physical at his doctors, then went left again. No issues, and the CPP and OAS keeps rolling in.


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[RickyG]

Ok, thanks again for the info will keep all of this in mind!

[fozrunner]

From what I've heard there is a recent agreement between the CBSA and the US where they now share information about departures from Canada. They now know how long you have been out of the country.

See this about the new Entry-Exit initiative

Canadian snowbirds: Rules you need to know - Canada - CBC News

foz

Originally Posted by Morgan Sailor

I can't say for sure what records CBSA keeps, but I'll tell you this. I work in law enforcement, and a few years ago I was tracking a wanted guy. I had info he had left the country so I called up the CBSA. The info I provided above is what they told me. Because he was a citizen, they did not keep track of his movements. Now that was a few years ago things may have changed.

Having said that, the senior couple I mention have been doing this for about 8 years now without any problems. Actually, the male half of the couple was out of the country for about 3 years. He had to come back to renew his drivers licence and OHIP. He came here, renewed everything, had a physical at his doctors, then went left again. No issues, and the CPP and OAS keeps rolling in.


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[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Morgan Sailor

I can't say for sure what records CBSA keeps ...

Apparently, CBSA does keep a History of Entries/Exits to/from Canada.

“... Travel History Report is a record of a traveller’s entries into Canada. The report documents entries made on or after August 1, 2000. This information is collected by the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) on travellers entering Canada. As travellers enter the country, they are interviewed by Border Services Officers who record passports or other identification information into the computer system...”

➥ Access to Information and Privacy

➥ Access to Information and Privacy - Info Source - Sources of Federal Government and Employee Information 2014

CBSA PPU 1202 ➥ Perimeter security and economic competitiveness - Privacy Impact Assessment Executive Summary ? Phase I Entry/Exit

[fozrunner]

It looks like the new agreement is only with the USA, so travel exits to other countries aren't tracked at the moment, if you go there directly.

[RickyG]

Thanks for the info! I would only be in the US for as long as it takes to get from Buffalo to Ft. Lauderdale and then exit from there to the Bahamas. I then clear with Bahamas customs/immigration where I land, either Nassau, Marsh Harbour or Treasure Cay. So I'm not concerned about how long I am in the US just how long I am out of Canada.

Another thing I would like to see if anybody has experience with is if the Bahamas keep track of how long you are there. Canadian citizens are allowed to visit 8 months without requiring any permits or visas and can apply for Annual residence for a fee and annual renewal but it's not clear to me that just a single retired male could qualify for that.

Anybody know if the Bahamas would be able to know how long you are there? I would probably be coming home once a year to visit and having a return ticket on entry would be acceptable but I would think it would have to be a date less than 8 months or the officials there would questions the length of the visit? I could always book the return for within the 8 months and then change when there. Would they question the time there when leaving as they would see my entry date on the visitors form and then see when I was leaving on the form which has to be completed on entry and exit?

[Morgan Sailor]

Hey guys great work getting all that research and updated info. It does look like they are trying to go down that road, but haven't gone there yet. As an LEO I love it, as a guy who enjoys his anonymity, I hate it. I won't be an LEO forever so you can guess which side I tend to lean toward.

I quickly reviewed all that was posted. A lot of talk about third nation residents in there, but nothing about citizens. I recall that being the main issue when I made my inquiries. This part I really hate:


" (Phase III) By June 30, 2014, the expansion of the Entry/Exit Initiative to include the exchange of data on all travellers at all automated common land border ports of entry; and

(Phase IV) With respect to air travel, by June 30, 2014, Canada will develop a system, under the Entry/Exit Initiative, to establish exit, similar to that in the United States, under which airlines will be required to submit their passenger manifest information on outbound international flights.

Exploratory work will be conducted for the future integration of entry and exit information systems for the marine and rail modes."

Looks like Canada is headed down the same road as US as far as info collecting goes. Hope we can make a big stink about it and keep new legislation from taking hold, but I doubt it. The media and govt have North Americans terrified to leave their homes.


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[FamilyVan]

Hang on a sec. Misleading the CBSA isn't really that good of an idea. If you are audited for any reason you're going to get burned with that approach. The fine will be significantly higher than the cost of health insurance.

Just imagine the scenarios. You're returning to Canada from Oswego. You call in when you get to Toronto. CBSA is bored and decides to come down and check you out. In the process they cross check their info with CRA. They immediately pick up the fact that you told CBSA one thing and CRA another- investigation time.

Remember CBSA hasn't been around that Long. Until fairly recently they were a branch of the CRA. CBSA are tax collectors first and everything else second.

After you're investigated and fined you will be red flagged for headaches for the rest of time by CBSA. Think long and hard before you take this approach.

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[Morgan Sailor]

Whoa hold on a sec, who said anything about misleading either the CBSA or the CRA. Please re- read my posts, at no time do I say to mislead the CBSA. All I suggested was that they don't keep track of a citizens whereabouts. I never said to lie to them on departure or return.

As for the CRA, again, I never said to mislead them. Their definition of resident is very broad and encompassing. Here is a link that explains it. http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts...sdncy-eng.html

With those definitions, I suggested that it wouldn't be difficult to qualify as a resident.


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[FamilyVan]

Oh, okay cool. I wasn't sure. I must have misinterpreted.

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[SVTatia]

Interesting information. In my view since we now have smart passports, smart driver licences, etc, if anyone doubts that big brother don't know of our whereabouts are in denial....

In any case, I've lived in Bermuda for 5 years and returned without any problems. All I did was to inform CRA that I was going to be away for a while without getting Canadian income and would resume filing income tax when I returned. This is what I did and all else was ok with them and OHIP. Also for the first time in my life I had a perfect credit score since I did not owe a penny anywhere.... but I digress.

My point is that, like it was posted previously, if you don't volunteer information and and don't lie, there is little chance you could loose your rights.